Gun for a new hunter

[serdog]

My Cousin (24 years old) wants to come up and hunt with me for Caribou and maybe Moose. He is a city boy and hasn't hunted or shot before

My go-to gun is a .30-06 Weatherby Vanguard got it when they were new and a damn good value but I think a bit too much recoil.
The other in my guns in by cabinet are my Late Dad all original no. 5 Lee Enfield which doesn't kick as much .... on paper.... on the shoulder on the other hand and my Model 94 .30-30 which I took my first Caribou with (it was a special edition one that dad let me start shooting when the No.5 made 12 year old me scared of centre fire guns) but isn't really ideal unless we get really close and of course a bunch of .22 LR and 20 and 12 gauge shotgun.

My Uncle has a .270 we might be able to take but even that isn't really ideal and I am in the market for a dangerous game rifle(but no just no to a 9.3 or .375 H&H ).

Personally I am think of buying a 6.5 Swede since I am a huge fan of everything Scandinavian . Other option would be the 7x57mm, .243 7mm-08 some of the .25 or sigh the 6.5 Creedmoor (which is just the Swede without the history IMO). I know the .308 might be an option but it doesn't really add much to my cabinet.

 

[mauserhunter]

I'd stay with something 7mm or larger for up there,I'd avoid buying a budget gun like a savage axis since the person my not like it or hunting and you get less if you had to sell it compared to a nice used or mid priced rifle.

 

[Mtn_Infantry]

Personally I’m a huge 1/4 bore fan. I love a 257 Weatherby, 257 Roberts, or 250-3000 Savage. My Weatherby sees the most action and would be the best for the species you’re talking about.

7x57 has recently found a place in my heart and if you’re buying it for your closet would make a great addition and should be very pleasant on anyone’s shoulder.

That said, you don’t have a 300WM and I truly believe every serious hunter should own one. It’d be an amazing choice for the game you recommend but probably too much for your cousin. You could shoot it, and let him shoot the 30-06. If at 24 that’s too much gun for him, you might suggest he change his tampon.

 

[Safari Dave]

A dangerous game rifle with recoil less than a .30/06, may be impossible unless you want to use an abominable muzzle break, and then, still, maybe even impossible


The .30/06 would be prefect. Use HMS low recoil loads, if regular 150g bullets are too much.



The .30-30 would be fine too, if the hunter is inexperienced, and would limit shots to 200 yards.

 

[Safari Dave]

Personally I’m a huge 1/4 bore fan. I love a 257 Weatherby, 257 Roberts, or 250-3000 Savage. My Weatherby sees the most action and would be the best for the species you’re talking about.

7x57 has recently found a place in my heart and if you’re buying it for your closet would make a great addition and should be very pleasant on anyone’s shoulder.

That said, you don’t have a 300WM and I truly believe every serious hunter should own one. It’d be an amazing choice for the game you recommend but probably too much for your cousin. You could shoot it, and let him shoot the 30-06. If at 24 that’s too much gun for him, you might suggest he change his tampon.

That's just mean.


But if my son, of about the same age and scrawny, couldn't take the recoil of a .30/06, then he would have daily hours-long, "loaded or unloaded" drills behind his back drills until he didn't flinch.

If he couldn't do that, then hell hast no fury like me and my buddies giving him "uphill", until he was willing to take unlimited gut punches until he had to go to the ER!


I'm kidding. (for you, not for me)

I'd buy a new Ruger American in a low-recoil, but adequate, caliber that you don't already own. (7-08, 6.5 CM, or even 7.62x39)






I love the 6.5x55 but, you might have trouble finding one now.

 

[bobdahunter84]

Unless your cousin is a dwarf, I'm surprised a 30-06 would be too much recoil for a 24 year old man.

I posted a comment just minutes ago about buying a model 70 in 6.5 creedmore for my son when he starts hunting. Recoil was primary concern there, without going with something very limited like a 240. But I'm buying for an 8 year old...

 

[JimP]

You can't go wrong with the old reliable 30-06

 

[Ontario Hunter]

30-06 is about the bottom limit for moose. Fine for caribou. Your buddy will just have to adjust. Get him a 30-06 rifle that weighs eight pounds and the recoil will be tolerable ... even for a girl. And he's not a girl.

 

[serdog]

I love the 6.5x55 but, you might have trouble finding one now.

Lots of nice 6.5x55 rifles in Canada. I agree that a .30-06 should be manageable but I also see people (not here) talk about how the .30-06 is about the maximum gun for the average experienced hunter so was a little concerned but I find my Vanguard a easy rifle to shot personally.

Even so I might use it as an excuse to get an nice little 6.5 Swede or 7x57mm both of course coming from the used rack

As for a .300 WM I personally don't see it have too much over the .30-06 and would rather use the money for a 9.3x62 or .375 H&H

 

[Safari Dave]

Just get a 6.5 x 55, if they are common in Canada, and be done!

 

[shootist~]

A modern Swede or a 6.5 CM with 140s have noticeably less recoil than full on 3006 hunting loads - based on my Tikkas in '06 and 6.5 CM. (My Swedes are all mil surplus and my reloads run at about 100 fps slower than the CM).

The 6.5s with 140s might be on the light side for moose, unless you reload and can go heavy (155 or 160 grain bullets). You're probably a better judge on that.

In my experience the 7mm08 with 160s has similar recoil as a 3006 pushing a faster 150 grain. A fine caliber though. I deeply regret selling mine.

If you reload, the Tikka 6.5 CM (my sample of one) has a lot more freebore than a Ruger American - and as a result, the 155 gr Megas work well for me. A friends Ruger has a short throat and won't chamber my 130 Siroccos (loaded moderatly long).

 

[Safari Dave]

I got a .30/06 for deer hunting for Christmas when I was 12.

My next rifle was a .300 Winchester Magnum that I purchased myself when I was 18.

 

[Tundra Tiger]

I'm with others. The .30-06 should not cause problems with recoil, and there are even low recoil ammo choices available. My 20 year old 4'11" daughter accurately shoots hot loads out of my .45-70.

If you are intent on buying a new gun, I'd actually push in the direction of something inexpensive, like a Savage Axis or a Ruger American, or maybe a Mossberg Patriot. And after that there are soooo many possible calibers. Moose and caribou just aren't that hard to kill.

The .270 is more than ample, with the right load. My hunting buddy, both of his sons in their teens took their first moose with a .270. One bull was 40ish inches, the other right at 50. And the younger son took a really nice blonde 7.5' sow brown bear with the same .270. Bullet type and shot placement are far more critical.

 

[BeeMaa]

It would be wise to at least let the "city boy" shoot a 22lr before moving him up to a centerfire of any kind. Do a good job of stressing safety and teaching him about how the rifle works with no live ammo around. Let him get some dry fire practice in. Then shooting the rimfire. Let him get accustomed to the feel of it. Let him watch you shoot the 30-06 (or something with less recoil) then ASK if he wants to try it with some reduced loads before moving to full power...if that's even necessary.

Other things you can do to help reduce felt recoil is use an extra pad on his shoulder. Shoot from sticks, not the bench. Add a little weight to the rifle if possible.

The point here is to go slowly. You can't expect him to be Mr Awesome Marksman when he has zero experience. Let him get comfortable. This is more about an opportunity to educate someone. If done incorrectly, the results could be an anti-gunner because of a bad experience. Or you could have a life-long hunting partner if it's done right.

Going slower will get you there faster.

EDIT - If you want to get him a low recoiling rifle capable of caribou and moose, you would be hard pressed to find something better than the 6.5x55 or (sigh) 6.5CM. Whichever has more ammo choices or better availability in your area, I suspect it will be the CM. Magnum options abound but the 6.5PRC is making a splash. All of Scandinavia has been using a 6.5mm 140 grain bullet at moderate speed for exactly this purpose. Personally, I'd go for a 257WBY but that may be a little too much for a new shooter when it comes to noise and recoil.

 

[Hunter-Habib]

I strongly recommend the 7x57mm. I’ve been using it on all the African plains game (up to the size of bull eland). As well as Asian game as large as male Royal Bengal tiger. And also American game as large as bull elk. Shot placement is extremely critical on the larger species, but it is definitely doable. And recoil is quite minimal.

A properly constructed 170-177Gr bullet (such as a Wim Degol Star Mantel heavy jacketed soft point) traveling at 2440fps is perfectly adequate for moose & caribou in a pinch (although it would not be my first choice).

My daughter thinks extremely highly of it too. And she is rather petite.

.30-06 Springfield is even more well suited for the task, especially with 220Gr bullets (such as Remington Core Lokt soft points). I’ve shot most of my moose and caribou over the years with this combination. As well as most of my African plains game (prior to purchasing my 7x57mm Mauser). And a Thai Seladang bison. Recoil is certainly more noticeable than the 7x57mm Mauser, but definitely not violent. As a matter of fact, my 23 year old granddaughter Razia can very easily fire up to 2 dozen shots from a .30-06 Springfield without suffering any discomfort.

 

[ActionBob]

My Uncle has a .270 we might be able to take but even that isn't really ideal and I am in the market for a dangerous game rifle(but no just no to a 9.3 or .375 H&H ).

I think you have your answer is right in here. Either don't spend any money and have him borrow your uncles 270, use good heavy for caliber bonded bullets.

Or do what you really want, have him use your 30-06 and buy yourself that DG rifle. If you want more than a 375, get a Winchester M70 in 416 Rem Mag. A Ruger RSM or a CZ in 416 Rigby. Or for low budget heavy duty AK ready, a Ruger Guide Gun in 416 Ruger (Although I'd prefer it in 375 Ruger as you can now buy Swift factory ammo loaded with A-Frames).

 

[skydiver386]

I'm with others. The .30-06 should not cause problems with recoil, and there are even low recoil ammo choices available. My 20 year old 4'11" daughter accurately shoots hot loads out of my .45-70.

If you are intent on buying a new gun, I'd actually push in the direction of something inexpensive, like a Savage Axis or a Ruger American, or maybe a Mossberg Patriot. And after that there are soooo many possible calibers. Moose and caribou just aren't that hard to kill.

The .270 is more than ample, with the right load. My hunting buddy, both of his sons in their teens took their first moose with a .270. One bull was 40ish inches, the other right at 50. And the younger son took a really nice blonde 7.5' sow brown bear with the same .270. Bullet type and shot placement are far more critical.

This was my thought. Start him out with some of the low recoil loads that are available, then after he's comfortable, use the full power loadings that you plan to hunt with.

 

[mdwest]

I wouldnt buy a new rifle solely for the purpose of it being a loaner to give someone else for potentially only one hunt...

I think there are two reasonable paths to follow that get your cousin on a caribou hunt that make sense..

either borrow the uncles 270... if your cousin really takes to hunting and wants to go again, he then should invest in a rifle that HE wants and can handle..

or..

purchase a rifle for YOUR use.. something that doesn't replicate or overlap the 30-06 much.. consider something smaller (but still appropriate for caribou), or something larger or faster (maybe 300 magnum of some sort) that adds versatility to your battery... then you hunt with the new rifle that you chose for your use/purposes.. and let your cousin hunt with your 30-06..

A 30-06 with an appropriate caribou load (150 or 165 gr projectile shooting at moderate speeds) does not produce so much recoil that it should turn a 24 year old male off from hunting.. even if he is lithe, recoil sensitive, etc... Ive got an 18 year old daughter that shoots hot load 308's with 168gr bullets with absolute confidence.. I guarantee he is not thinner, smaller, or physically weaker than she is (she is athletic.. but is maybe 105lbs soaking wet at about 5'6")...

 

[Mtn_Infantry]

I wouldnt buy a new rifle solely for the purpose of it being a loaner to give someone else for potentially only one hunt...

I think there are two reasonable paths to follow that get your cousin on a caribou hunt that make sense..

either borrow the uncles 270... if your cousin really takes to hunting and wants to go again, he then should invest in a rifle that HE wants and can handle..

or..

purchase a rifle for YOUR use.. something that doesn't replicate or overlap the 30-06 much.. consider something smaller (but still appropriate for caribou), or something larger or faster (maybe 300 magnum of some sort) that adds versatility to your battery... then you hunt with the new rifle that you chose for your use/purposes.. and let your cousin hunt with your 30-06..

A 30-06 with an appropriate caribou load (150 or 165 gr projectile shooting at moderate speeds) does not produce so much recoil that it should turn a 24 year old male off from hunting.. even if he is lithe, recoil sensitive, etc... Ive got an 18 year old daughter that shoots hot load 308's with 168gr bullets with absolute confidence.. I guarantee he is not thinner, smaller, or physically weaker than she is (she is athletic.. but is maybe 105lbs soaking wet at about 5'6")...

@serdog as you can see most of us recommend you buy a DG rifle for you (375, 404, 416, 458 etc) and loan your 30-06 or borrow the 270 for the loaner and still buy the DG Rifle

 

[mauser98]

Stock design and weight makes a difference in felt recoil. I have a Weatherby vanguard wilderness in 30-06 and felt recoil isn't very pleasant. A heavier rifle with a good butt pad like a Winchester m70 is much more enjoyable to shoot. So in saying that i would look at something with more heft rather than a light weight. I would also look at 308 win/30-06 before i would look at the 6.5mm for dedicated moose/caribou hunting.