Gun cleaning behind all copper ammo

[bruce moulds]

bob, i have seen fclass barrels go off the boil after less than 200 shots.
a good rod guide helps the rod stay away from barrel material.
i don't think bronze brushes hurt barrels, and use them and nylon.
you can minimize strokes by soaking to some degree.
rods will wear a throat out of round if used roughly.
the other area to be respectful of is the crowning so you have to act accordingly there.
bruce.

 

[bruce moulds]

add to the above.
a lot of 303s show oval shaped muzzles, developed from poor usage of pull throughs.
the cord gets impregnated with primer material which is extremely abrasive.
this brings into question the use of bore snakes!
i have also seen a number of range rifles, 303 and 308, that had oval throats from rods not centered.
some guys will only push things out the muzzle, and never pull them back to protect the crown.
copper is easy to get out, but carbon can be another thing altogether.
carbon not removed turns into something like ceramic with repeated heat of firing, and gets harder than the barrel steel.
it is almost immune to ant solvent, and can only be removed with abrasives,
being harder than the barrel, abrasives will remove barrel steel before the carbon - not good.
far better to remove it in small amounts before it gets bad.
bruce.

 

[JPmbogo]

Amen, so what is "proper cleaning"? Obviously, based on the responses to this thread, that seems to be a very subjective standard.

 

[gbflyer]

I’ve been following the Bore Tech products procedure. That Eliminator is really good stuff.

 

[Ike85123]

I have the same barrel on my Remington 700 300wm that came with it in 2005. I brush it after every range session. Ive never lost any accuracy with it and I shoot it weekly.i use the brush, then pads with solvent, then brush ,then a dry pad. Then I use the oil in the barrel and the action before I put it away.

 

[rookhawk]

Amen, so what is "proper cleaning"? Obviously, based on the responses to this thread, that seems to be a very subjective standard.

Indeed, its relative. But I have bought many guns that were shot out and innaccurate only to find that with proper cleaning for 30-60 days they were sub-MOA guns.

Accumulated powder, rust, lead, and copper can layer up over decades of use and when removed gently over many, many days may reveal an as-new barrel underneath.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Indeed, its relative. But I have bought many guns that were shot out and innaccurate only to find that with proper cleaning for 30-60 days they were sub-MOA guns.

Accumulated powder, rust, lead, and copper can layer up over decades of use and when removed gently over many, many days may reveal an as-new barrel underneath.

@rookhawk
And you pick the up cheap because of people's laziness and lack of knowledge.
Bob

 

[rookhawk]

@rookhawk
And you pick the up cheap because of people's laziness and lack of knowledge.
Bob

100%
Bought a Westley Richards that was incorrectly discounted $10,000 because of a ruined bore. (It was metford rifled and shot sub-moa after serious cleaning)

It’s pretty hard to shoot out a barrel in a hunting rifle, near impossible if it’s not a cartridge shooting 3400-4000fps.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

100%
Bought a Westley Richards that was incorrectly discounted $10,000 because of a ruined bore. (It was metford rifled and shot sub-moa after serious cleaning)

It’s pretty hard to shoot out a barrel in a hunting rifle, near impossible if it’s not a cartridge shooting 3400-4000fps.

@rookhawk
We have hunters over here in OZ that shoot out a barrel every year hunting roos professionally.
Bob

 

[bruce moulds]

i have shot out 25/06, 270, and 280 barrels purely hunting, and have a 7mm stw getting close.
bruce.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

i have shot out 25/06, 270, and 280 barrels purely hunting, and have a 7mm stw getting close.
bruce.

@bruce moulds
That's a lot of game mate or a lot of misses. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
Bob

 

[bruce moulds]

a bit of both bob.
bruce.

 

[Philip Glass]

The gurus tell me to use Wipe Out. Spray it in the barrel and leave overnight then run patches.

 

[bruce moulds]

sometimes more than once.
bruce.

 

[Nhoro]

Interesting chat- Here is my 5 c. Copper is less reactive than iron/steel. So reagents like ammonia or other oxidising agents will react with iron in preference to copper. If they are very clever, they may use chelating agents to prefer copper in their reaction mechanism but I am not sure there is enough money in gun cleaning (price point market) to warrant too much cleverness.

Bottom line is copper removing chemicals will probably remove more steel inside your barrel than copper.

 

[Inline6]

I like bore tech it is very safe and works well.

I have moved to ThorroClean Bore cleaning system. It is abrasive but much quicker.

For stubborn carbon CLR (yes the as seen on TV stuff) works extremely well. Barrel must be cleaned up and oiled afterwards.

​

I see several people ask when to really clean, your rifle will tell you. I have some 6mm that require it every 200rds (if less than chances are it was not cleaned correctly to begin with) and 308s 500-650rds. It just depends on your barrel. I have noticed the faster the bullet the more cleaning (short intervals) required.

YMMV

 

[crs]

"I have noticed the faster the bullet the more cleaning (short intervals) required."
Good point.
My daughter bought a one owner like new Weatherby Mark 5 7mm W Magnum at a gun how for a fair price. The seller told us he was selling it for his buddy because it would not shoot a 100 yard group less than 6 inches.

After one range session of 6 inch groups and some recoil, I took it to a Dallas area shop that was a Weatherby dealer. I had them install a removeable muzzle brake and discussed the 6 inch groups. After a bore inspection, the technician told me the bore was too dirty to shoot well and told me how to clean it. He also told me to clean the bore every dozen shots and it would always shoot sub minute of angle.
I took it home and spent at least an hour cleaning the bore until it sparkled (bore light shone and all CLEAN PATCHES?
Now the rifle shoots 100 yard groups of less than an inch. Even better, on a Montana hunt she killed her mule deer at 400 yards with her first shot ! The guide ran a half mile to tell me the story!
I guess that he had never seen a Texas girl shoot!

 

[Nhoro]

So all this talk of copper made me worried and I tackled my 458 Lott. It has been fed a steady diet of copper softs and solids with only the odd lead cast round. So I could see with the naked eye copper fouling in the barrel.

Ran a copper solvent soaked patch through the barrel and waited. Some obviously dribbled down and on to my beautifully hand polished oil finsh and lifted the #@%&! finish. So I got to spend my sunday attempting to fix the mess.

 

[gbflyer]

Interesting chat- Here is my 5 c. Copper is less reactive than iron/steel. So reagents like ammonia or other oxidising agents will react with iron in preference to copper. If they are very clever, they may use chelating agents to prefer copper in their reaction mechanism but I am not sure there is enough money in gun cleaning (price point market) to warrant too much cleverness.

Bottom line is copper removing chemicals will probably remove more steel inside your barrel than copper.

I’ve never heard or read that anywhere. Good to know.

 

[Nhoro]

I’ve never heard or read that anywhere. Good to know.

I read over my answer and realised I didnt fully explain. Ammonia does dissolve copper preferentially to iron- however I don't believe any commercial copper removers use ammonia anymore. Ammonia will cause rust and will react iron over a several hours or maybe days but will take out copper much quicker. The iron will not have time for any significant reactions but it will react on the surface. Bore abrasives will also remove some barrel material along with the copper but usually a negligible amount.

So, in my opinion, copper solvents and bore scrubs should be used only when necessary. By all means clean your barrel and oil for storage because carbon deposits can attract moisture and rust will result. Many other posters have testified that copper deposits can impact accuracy. So at some stage, you will need to remove the copper-the debate is how often to balance clean barrel vs barrel damage or wear.