Good Gun Deals This Week

[Odinsraven]

Gun Auction Speak

Rarely seen = We only have four in this auction have five unsold from previous auctions

Rare = We have 2 in this auction

Unusual = someone has messed with it

Harder to find model - if you are new to guns and have only ever read three websites

Excellent example - a bit rough around the edges -

Fine example - even rougher

Believed mechanically fine - Well everyone believes in something I suppose !

Mechanically fine - see "excellent example " above stock and bluing is trashed

Good - fair

Fair - rougher than a badger's ASS

Poor - scrap

would benefit
from restoration - Perfect for someone who does not value their time

Crisp rifling - Yep rifiling is good thoat is buggered

Overall a fine rifle - We have not had time to check it properly - but looks good

Good overall condition - forgot to mention the wood is excellent - bore is f**ked

Perfect forest stalking rifle - barrel has been cut short in a vane effort to find accuracy !

Comes with suppressor - Photo shows suppressor fitted - rusted on and bore is f**ked

Barrel could do with cleaning - bore f**Ked
Anyhow some of my observations from 35 years of hanging around auctions !

 

[rookhawk]

Gun Auction Speak

Rarely seen = We only have four in this auction have five unsold from previous auctions

Rare = We have 2 in this auction

Unusual = someone has messed with it

Harder to find model - if you are new to guns and have only ever read three websites

Excellent example - a bit rough around the edges -

Fine example - even rougher

Believed mechanically fine - Well everyone believes in something I suppose !

Mechanically fine - see "excellent example " above stock and bluing is trashed

Good - fair

Fair - rougher than a badger's ASS

Poor - scrap

would benefit
from restoration - Perfect for someone who does not value their time

Crisp rifling - Yep rifiling is good thoat is buggered

Overall a fine rifle - We have not had time to check it properly - but looks good

Good overall condition - forgot to mention the wood is excellent - bore is f**ked

Perfect forest stalking rifle - barrel has been cut short in a vane effort to find accuracy !

Comes with suppressor - Photo shows suppressor fitted - rusted on and bore is f**ked

Barrel could do with cleaning - bore f**Ked
Anyhow some of my observations from 35 years of hanging around auctions !

Great list. My ultimate pet-peeve is this one:

“Brushed bright” or “coin finished”.

It means a gun was tarted up for sale by dipping the gun in tidy-bowl (muriatic acid) to remove all remaining originality and case finish.

Equally tacky, when people buy new guns with a coin finish thinking they’ve dove headfirst into class. You bought a replica of a ruined gun, sorry.

 

[BJH65]

I’ve never posted a deal here but I didn’t know there was an unwritten rule not to post auction guns. Seems like a conflict of interest to me. I thought this thread was about alerting other members to good deals, auction or not.

Being a member of other online gun forums, it seems to be a somewhat universal standard and some even prohibit it in their rules, the notion being the auction item will no longer be a good deal if the information is shared. Only for gun auctions. Then after the auction, much like Rookhawk, members will post the results of the auction and winning bid price. I think this standard is perhaps more important to the pure collector. Others have stated it’s not often one will strike a home run and win the bid at a ridiculous low price yet it has happened to me but not on Safari rifles!

Collectors will scour the internet for online auctions and sometimes guns are misidentified and the collector will bid and cross his or her fingers and hope it goes unnoticed! This is probably more important to a gun collector like my brother, who has 30 rare S&W Registered Magnums in his vintage revolver collection whereas I’m more interested in guns I will shoot and use.

Anyhow, the main principle or thought process specific to gun auctions is sharing this information while the intent may be good, you may be doing more harm than good, since more eyes will see and potentially drive up the bid. I would love to win a bid on a misidentified 500 Jeffery for a thousand bucks! Will never happen but one can hope!

 

[Peter Radekevich]

I’ve posted a number of international auction recaps on this thread, identifying where demand and pricing is rising or falling for a variety of guns.

Not actionable information since the auctions have passed.

What say the members, useful or not useful to get recaps of what’s happening in London and elsewhere?

Very useful

 

[Scott CWO]

Being a member of other online gun forums, it seems to be a somewhat universal standard and some even prohibit it in their rules, the notion being the auction item will no longer be a good deal if the information is shared. Only for gun auctions. Then after the auction, much like Rookhawk, members will post the results of the auction and winning bid price. I think this standard is perhaps more important to the pure collector. Others have stated it’s not often one will strike a home run and win the bid at a ridiculous low price yet it has happened to me but not on Safari rifles!

Collectors will scour the internet for online auctions and sometimes guns are misidentified and the collector will bid and cross his or her fingers and hope it goes unnoticed! This is probably more important to a gun collector like my brother, who has 30 rare S&W Registered Magnums in his vintage revolver collection whereas I’m more interested in guns I will shoot and use.

Anyhow, the main principle or thought process specific to gun auctions is sharing this information while the intent may be good, you may be doing more harm than good, since more eyes will see and potentially drive up the bid. I would love to win a bid on a misidentified 500 Jeffery for a thousand bucks! Will never happen but one can hope!

I get it for collecting and speculating but I appreciate being informed about a gun I want to use and keep.

 

[RR 314]

I get it for collecting and speculating but I appreciate being informed about a gun I want to use and keep.

I am on your page. I don't buy guns to flip or consider them to be part of my investment portfolio. I buy guns, particularly rifles, that I like. Would I love to buy everything under market value--absolutely. Do I? Probably not. .

I have mentioned to a couple of you that I have had the pleasure of meeting that I enjoy the process. I enjoy finding a fine rifle, working on a load for a particular hunt, and being successful on that hunt. Although it makes little sense, I then usually thoroughly clean that rifle, put it in the back of a safe, and then start the process anew. For one reason or another the next rifle in line may get passed up and never utilized. Although I have a fair amount of nice rifles, I don't consider myself to be a collector. Even if I don't take a rifle on a big hunt after it goes in the safe, I will dust them off and use them for something wholly inappropriate for the chambering. For example, I have shot a lot of pigs (all in the head) with .458 Lott and bigger.

Good deals are awesome; however, I seem to be on the selling side of the good deals. Buy high--sell low. It's how I roll. I just purchased a spectacular rifle that went for less than I thought it would/should. Not a lot of comparable sales out there. Was it a "good deal"? I don't know. Likely I never will know.

With all my rambling herein, I will state that I have had many members reach out and ask me my opinion on nice bolt rifles and I assist or provide a heck of a disclaimer if the rifle in question is not in my wheelhouse. It is good to have others to bounce ideas off off in the evaluation process. I was looking for a double to gift to a friend and as I am admittedly not well versed in doubles I reached out to @rookhawk about a William Evans/Purdey's .470 at Holts. He took the time to confirm it was a solid rifle, but also told me the estimate was ridiculously low. I entered a bid, from memory, 1500 pounds or so above the high estimate. I think I was outbid by perhaps 3000 pounds (4500 pounds over the high estimate from memory). His help was greatly appreciated and knowledge was spot on.

I think most of the remaining "good deals" out there are in small shops with limited exposure and (generally) older owners who don't utilize tools readily available. The other example is truly high end shops regularly selling guns in the $75K-250K range who may not appreciate a gun in the $15 K range and may only offer $8K or so in trade and will let it go quickly for $9500 to $10K.

 

[Mtn_Infantry]

I get it for collecting and speculating but I appreciate being informed about a gun I want to use and keep.

If it’s a gun you want to use and keep, why aren’t you out looking for it? If you’ve got time to come on here and look at this thread you’ve got the time to go onto the auction websites, type in what you’re looking for and see if there are any available and what price they’re at.

Like @rookhawk, @BJH65 the after auction review is fine but posting during auctions has always been viewed as frowned upon. I’ve given members feedback when asked, even if I was bidding or wasn’t. @rookhawk and I have conversed on several international auction, I even avoided bidding on an item in the last holts auction knowing he was. @RR 314 we bid against one another on that 470. I stopped about 1000£ shy of the realized price.

 

[RR 314]

If it’s a gun you want to use and keep, why aren’t you out looking for it? If you’ve got time to come on here and look at this thread you’ve got the time to go onto the auction websites, type in what you’re looking for and see if there are any available and what price they’re at.

Like @rookhawk, @BJH65 the after auction review is fine but posting during auctions has always been viewed as frowned upon. I’ve given members feedback when asked, even if I was bidding or wasn’t. @rookhawk and I have conversed on several international auction, I even avoided bidding on an item in the last holts auction knowing he was. @RR 314 we bid against one another on that 470. I stopped about 1000£ shy of the realized price.

@Mtn_Infantry, my numbers may be off, but from memory it went well over 2x the high estimate. I was pleased @rookhawk informed me before the auction that the estimated value ranges are way off (low) on the British doubles. I place my entry bid and maximum bid and wait to check my phone in the am. Unless it is something I absolutely have to have, I never enter a live auction. I have a competitive streak and it could get ugly. Haaaa.

 

[Mtn_Infantry]

@Mtn_Infantry, my numbers may be off, but from memory it went well over 2x the high estimate. I was pleased @rookhawk informed me before the auction that the estimated value ranges are way off (low) on the British doubles. I place my entry bid and maximum bid and wait to check my phone in the am. Unless it is something I absolutely have to have, I never enter a live auction. I have a competitive streak and it could get ugly. Haaaa.

Yes, the valuation estimates on doubles in the UK tends to be significantly lower than where the gavel will strike. Given the decline in the popularity of hunting (especially in Africa) they don’t get as much demand. It’s the US Buyers that drive the prices well over the European valuation.

 

[rookhawk]

Yes, the valuation estimates on doubles in the UK tends to be significantly lower than where the gavel will strike. Given the decline in the popularity of hunting (especially in Africa) they don’t get as much demand. It’s the US Buyers that drive the prices well over the European valuation.

I think that’s true, and also that depends. In general, virtually everything at any auction of note sells way above auction estimates. The estimates are a tease to drive up demand, nothing more. This is true with Holts, Bonhams, Christies, Sotheby’s, Gavin Gardner, Joh. Springer, Amoskeague, Morphys, etc. This is particularly true with the European auction houses.

Then we go to the particular genres of guns.

12-bore guns in England are a pariah, so there are great deals to be had for Americans even if you’re the “sucker” that paid top price for every one of the best guns, they are still worth more than you paid the second they land on US soil. It’s an inefficient market, but not so inefficient that dealers are willing to get involved in it. (E.g. getting something for 20% less than true value is a good deal for a collector, but an unacceptable margin for a dealer)

But what about sub-gauges? Sheesh. They are ludicrous expensive everywhere. So damned rare by the numbers too. 96% of all British guns ever made were 12-bore, about 1% 10 bore, about 1% 16 bore. So all the rest make up a mere 2%: 2-bore, 4-bore, 8-bore, 14-bore, 20-bore, 24-bore, 28, 32, .410, and 9mm rounding out the scarce options. Even low-grade, extractor, basic box locks from tier-3 makers are selling for 8x more than their identical 12 bore equivalent.

In the double rifles, something funny is going on in London. I don’t know why, and I don’t know who, but there is a group of people bidding what I consider “stupid money” for Ludwig Borovnik Austrian Ferlachs. To me, they are very nice Austrian Ferlachs just like Franzoi, Just, and all the other makers. Why these guns are selling for gigantic money, I have absolutely no idea. They wouldn’t fetch half that price in the USA?

British Double Rifles is impossible to gauge. Literally nothing of note has come through the auctions in the past few years that I can recall. The 318WR double rifle this go around hit 10000 GBP. It was rebarreled in the 1930s, and it was converted to a rimless 318 and it was heavy. Still a nice gun, but I advised a bidder on this one and told him don’t pay that much, it just isn’t worth it. I haven’t seen a nice Watson Brothers or William Evans 470NE come through the auctions in a long time so I don’t know if they are soft or strong in the market today.

Continental double rifles are going for big money with few exceptions. Joh. Springer auctioned off a stunning Heym best grade side plated gun with 470 and 375 barrels, it went for around $40k USD landed. Not a terrible price, it would cost $80k to replace, but it would take awhile to sell in the USA at $50k simply because it’s a gigantic sum of money for any gun. A smallbore best Heym 7x65r and 375HH two barrel set went for a song in London about a year ago with a member here picking it up for a pittance…as in nearly the price the scopes, mounts, and case would cost to buy new. Go figure.

The really confusing thing are the Smallbore British stalking rifles. 10 years ago I could pick up the phone and call any of ten friends in the States and buy a 275 Rigby from between the wars for “full retail” if I was willing. $3500-$3800. A nice take down version could be had for $6000-$6500. Today, at the auctions basic guns to my eye are going for $10,000 and take-downs would surely be more. That has been a rapid increase in price over a relatively short period of time. My theory is that just like Dakotas in the USA, these Rigbys are being compared to modern replacement costs. Thus, a shooter might say “what the hell, why not buy a real vintage one since it’s less expensive than a brand new one anyway”. If true, this sentiment is doubling the interest, both collectors and shooters are vying for the same guns. Pure speculation on my part.

To your point on who is buying what, it’s hard to say for sure. Anecdotes in my friend network say that the Americans are jumping on the 12 bore best guns because the deals are quite solid if you know what you’re buying and have an agent on the ground evaluating them. The drillings, vierlings, and Germanic double rifles are definitely going back to the continent, not to America. The small bore magazine rifles are definitely coming to the USA. The other double rifles and safari caliber magazine rifles? I think they are going all over the world as our little fraternity seems to have similar tastes everywhere.

Just my ramblings for the evening.

 

[VertigoBE]

I think that’s true, and also that depends. In general, virtually everything at any auction of note sells way above auction estimates. The estimates are a tease to drive up demand, nothing more. This is true with Holts, Bonhams, Christies, Sotheby’s, Gavin Gardner, Joh. Springer, Amoskeague, Morphys, etc. This is particularly true with the European auction houses.

Then we go to the particular genres of guns.

12-bore guns in England are a pariah, so there are great deals to be had for Americans even if you’re the “sucker” that paid top price for every one of the best guns, they are still worth more than you paid the second they land on US soil. It’s an inefficient market, but not so inefficient that dealers are willing to get involved in it. (E.g. getting something for 20% less than true value is a good deal for a collector, but an unacceptable margin for a dealer)

But what about sub-gauges? Sheesh. They are ludicrous expensive everywhere. So damned rare by the numbers too. 96% of all British guns ever made were 12-bore, about 1% 10 bore, about 1% 16 bore. So all the rest make up a mere 2%: 2-bore, 4-bore, 8-bore, 14-bore, 20-bore, 24-bore, 28, 32, .410, and 9mm rounding out the scarce options. Even low-grade, extractor, basic box locks from tier-3 makers are selling for 8x more than their identical 12 bore equivalent.

In the double rifles, something funny is going on in London. I don’t know why, and I don’t know who, but there is a group of people bidding what I consider “stupid money” for Ludwig Borovnik Austrian Ferlachs. To me, they are very nice Austrian Ferlachs just like Franzoi, Just, and all the other makers. Why these guns are selling for gigantic money, I have absolutely no idea. They wouldn’t fetch half that price in the USA?

British Double Rifles is impossible to gauge. Literally nothing of note has come through the auctions in the past few years that I can recall. The 318WR double rifle this go around hit 10000 GBP. It was rebarreled in the 1930s, and it was converted to a rimless 318 and it was heavy. Still a nice gun, but I advised a bidder on this one and told him don’t pay that much, it just isn’t worth it. I haven’t seen a nice Watson Brothers or William Evans 470NE come through the auctions in a long time so I don’t know if they are soft or strong in the market today.

Continental double rifles are going for big money with few exceptions. Joh. Springer auctioned off a stunning Heym best grade side plated gun with 470 and 375 barrels, it went for around $40k USD landed. Not a terrible price, it would cost $80k to replace, but it would take awhile to sell in the USA at $50k simply because it’s a gigantic sum of money for any gun. A smallbore best Heym 7x65r and 375HH two barrel set went for a song in London about a year ago with a member here picking it up for a pittance…as in nearly the price the scopes, mounts, and case would cost to buy new. Go figure.

The really confusing thing are the Smallbore British stalking rifles. 10 years ago I could pick up the phone and call any of ten friends in the States and buy a 275 Rigby from between the wars for “full retail” if I was willing. $3500-$3800. A nice take down version could be had for $6000-$6500. Today, at the auctions basic guns to my eye are going for $10,000 and take-downs would surely be more. That has been a rapid increase in price over a relatively short period of time. My theory is that just like Dakotas in the USA, these Rigbys are being compared to modern replacement costs. Thus, a shooter might say “what the hell, why not buy a real vintage one since it’s less expensive than a brand new one anyway”. If true, this sentiment is doubling the interest, both collectors and shooters are vying for the same guns. Pure speculation on my part.

To your point on who is buying what, it’s hard to say for sure. Anecdotes in my friend network say that the Americans are jumping on the 12 bore best guns because the deals are quite solid if you know what you’re buying and have an agent on the ground evaluating them. The drillings, vierlings, and Germanic double rifles are definitely going back to the continent, not to America. The small bore magazine rifles are definitely coming to the USA. The other double rifles and safari caliber magazine rifles? I think they are going all over the world as our little fraternity seems to have similar tastes everywhere.

Just my ramblings for the evening.

Thank you @rookhawk for continuing to share your knowledge with us.

On the previous topic of putting items from auctions online on this forum. I would say that this particular thread is likely already being looked at by many a collector/bidder, without ever participating and that even on fixed price online postings, if any of our resident experts mentions that it is indeed a good deal, it will be sold seconds after. Which is why I am already more reluctant to post any other items of interest. Even though I'm usually finding items of interest in Belgium, France of Germany, I'm already getting worried someone else might try to "snipe" it.

but on that note:

 

[VertigoBE]

I found this rifle. A Dumoulin 7x64 for 3000€ (reminding me of my Dumoulin Centurion, which was one of the first successes of this Good Gun deal thread) (just ignore the hideous scope and mounts)

What's the verdict on this one?

 

[VertigoBE]

And in the same store, this one also caught my eye:

A "Dumoulin Deleye" in 416 Rigby, for 3000€ (this one actually looks to be just a build on a factory weapon, a CZ550 perhaps? But still, 3K€ for an engraved 416 Ribgy...)

 

[rookhawk]

I found this rifle. A Dumoulin 7x64 for 3000€ (reminding me of my Dumoulin Centurion, which was one of the first successes of this Good Gun deal thread) (just ignore the hideous scope and mounts)View attachment 629509
View attachment 629510

View attachment 629511


View attachment 629512



What's the verdict on this one?

Very classy. You don’t get much for $3000, usually plastic and push feed. I cant see how anyone would go wrong with this one at that price.

 

[Mark A Ouellette]

Leupold VIP extra 10% discount.

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"we’re kicking off Labor Day weekend with a limited-time VIP offer just for you. Take an additional 10% off* your VIP discount on all riflescopes, binoculars, spotters, rangefinders, and more through September 6th."

That means a 38% discount off retail prices for in stock items!

If you want to be a Leupold VIP just go to Leupold dot com or Google Leupold VIP.

 

[Whit]

Dang. What a deal. What would the group recommend for a rifle scope for a $600~ .300 Win Mag and quality binos for hunting Idaho mulies and elk, plus African game?

 

[JG458]

Thanks for the heads up!