GMX vs. TSX/TTSX?

[sheephunterab]

GMX aren't pure copper which may account for the less amount of fouling you've seen with them Desert Dog. I'd agree that the GMX does need a bit more speed than the TTSX. I find it more like the TSX for expansion. My 7mm and Vanessa'a 30-06 are both well sub MOA with Superformance and my .338 is right at MOA. We've shot animals out to 500 yards with all of them and Vanessa tipped an ostrich over at 622 with a 139-grain GMX in the 7mm using Superformance. On our latest trip I took a Barbary sheep at 500 yards with the 185 GMX out of the 338. I've definitely seen no accuracy issues with Superformance. The only rifle that didn't like it was the 6.5 Creedmoor.

 

[Desert Dog]

Great data!!! Thankyou! I use .mil issued Barnes (70gr tsx, loaded HOT, as in, 2900fps from my 16" ar) and LE issued 55gr GMX (5.56, not the Superformance stuff, which i read bad things about in the accuracy dept). They shoot very close to the same from my rifle, 1.5moa or so (ar15 with 1-4 nightforce). I'm not a handloader.

Do you have any specific experience with the 55gr GMX? Also, how much faster much the GMX be to open equal to a TSX, on the low end of the velocity spectrum?

I presume you've also used bonded ammo before, too? How do you find the momometals regarding lethality and speed of incapacitating on deer size game? More or less destructive?

I do not load lead-free for 5.56 (because I don't hunt with that caliber), but load monometals for .243, 6.5, 308, 30-06, 300 H&H, 300 win mag, .338, 375 H&H, 416 Rem, and 458 win.

For purposes of this post (except for the heavy hitters like 416 and 458), I do not use the standard TSX bullets. The TTSX, and especially the LRX, are noticeably superior to the standard TSX. The TTSX and LRX have much better ballistic properties, and tend to open up at much lower velocities than the standard TSX.

I usually load for maximum safe velocities within an accuracy node, and the TTSX and GMX are pretty much on par with each other for target velocities. In water jug tests at various distances, my TTSX loads will open up reliably at lower velocities.

I don't believe that the make commercial loads for the TTSX in 5.56? But loading that bullet in an AR15 to its optimal potential may prove to be a challenge due to OAL magazine constraints.

 

[Jwg223]

You're right, no 5.56 ttsx, sadly. 300 yards is about the expansion limit for the 70gr tsx.

 

[Desert Dog]

The only rifle that didn't like it was the 6.5 Creedmoor.

Try the 127gr LRX with around 42-43gr of H4350 in the Creed. That is my go to bullet and caliber for all of my deer hunting now days. It is an incredible little killer with match grade accuracy.

 

[sheephunterab]

Try the 127gr LRX with around 43gr of H4350 in the Creed. That is my go to bullet and caliber for all of my deer hunting now days. It is an incredible little killer with match grade accuracy.

Actually, just tried the new 143-grain ELD-X in it and was getting groups in the .38 range. Vanessa put a mountain goat down quickly with it at 427 yards last week so, so far so good. The Accubond shot fairly well out of it as well but it really likes the ELD-X. It's been a fussy rifle from day one.

 

[sheephunterab]

For purposes of this post (except for the heavy hitters like 416 and 458), I do not use the standard TSX bullets. The TTSX, and especially the LRX, are noticeably superior to the standard TSX. The TTSX and LRX have much better ballistic properties, and tend to open up at much lower velocities than the standard TSX.

When you say "much lower" do you mean more than 200fps? I've seen reliable expansion down to 2,000fps with the TSX/GMX and only 1800 with the TTSX. It's not a big range difference. Even in the 30-06, I've seen good performance to 500 yards with the TSX/GMX...more than most people shoot. While obviously not an option in California, if I was shooting beyond 500 yards I'd be looking at a more suitable cup and core option.

 

[Gsxrmike]

The major problem with the video is that the guy is using a 7.5 inch barrel.
The resulting velocity is just too slow. I've fired this same 70 gr 5.56 bullet through my 10.5 inch AR barrel and get average velocity of about 2450.
At the velocity he is producing expansion would be questionable.

The buffalo in my avatar was taken with a 400 gr Barnes x bullet traveling at about 2300 fps. The bullet went through a rib,blew out a massive exit hole in the heart that you could put both fists through, and nearly exited out the off side rib cage. I also used a similar bullet in my .375 H&H to take a Kudu and a bush pig with great results. I'll have to defer to you guys for smaller caliber results but for .375 and up I'll stick with Barnes.

 

[Bert the Turtle]

I'm not certain why broken petals are such a concern to many. Typically all it means is the bullet tumbled inside the animal while still going at relatively high speed. Bend metal one way when the bullet expands and then the other when it tumbles and changes direction and the petal/petals sheer off. It's typically no test of bullet strength of all but rather just the path the bullet took. I've seen everything from one petal to all petals missing with all three of mono metals mentioned. They all had one thing in common....they came from a dead animal! We've been brainwashed into believing that only perfect mushrooms are acceptable. That's not always the case depending on the path the bullet takes.

I agree 100%. Somehow, when a partition sheds 30% of its weight, that is a desirable design feature but if an X bullet loses one petal, people pronounce it a failure.

 

[Gsxrmike]

 

[Gsxrmike]

This is the recovered bullet from my buffalo.

 

[Jwg223]

The major problem with the video is that the guy is using a 7.5 inch barrel.
The resulting velocity is just too slow. I've fired this same 70 gr 5.56 bullet through my 10.5 inch AR barrel and get average velocity of about 2450.
At the velocity he is producing expansion would be questionable.

The buffalo in my avatar was taken with a 400 gr Barnes x bullet traveling at about 2300 fps. The bullet went through a rib,blew out a massive exit hole in the heart that you could put both fists through, and nearly exited out the off side rib cage. I also used a similar bullet in my .375 H&H to take a Kudu and a bush pig with great results. I'll have to defer to you guys for smaller caliber results but for .375 and up I'll stick with Barnes.

I agree, Also, I believe his gel is soft or something, because he failed to get expansion from a 75gr Gold Dot (Fusion) at around 1900fps, and the "floor" for the Gold Dot line is significantly lower than that.

 

[Divernhunter]

Jwg223---Simple answer is they all kill deer. I will not get into the question of why the 223 is a poor choice for shooting deer/pigs/elk and such.

 

[Jwg223]

Jwg223---Simple answer is they all kill deer. I will not get into the question of why the 223 is a poor choice for shooting deer/pigs/elk and such.

I honestly would be curious, having both killed deer, and having friends who have killed deer, with 5.56, and seeing the results on target, why you feel it is inadequate.

 

[Red Leg]

I honestly would be curious, having both killed deer, and having friends who have killed deer, with 5.56, and seeing the results on target, why you feel it is inadequate.

I'll answer that from my perspective. First, to be clear, a .223 will kill a deer. But of all the calibers in my gun room, it would be the last I would use. I do not give a wit about expended energy on the game animal. I think that is a debate for mathamatitians rather than hunters. What I do believe in is an exit wound. So much so, that I have shot at least a half dozen deer over the last 6 or 7 years with a 318 WR using the classic 250 gr RN solid. All had perfect .33 cal holes through and through, and none went more than fifty yards - most less than fifty feet. With the .223, I have to rely on the bullet performing optimally - with a suitable deer round, I only worry about my shooting being optimal. And should it not be, I have a few mm's of extra damage and an exit wound to try and sort out my error.

 

[Jwg223]

I'll answer that from my perspective. First, to be clear, a .223 will kill a deer. But of all the calibers in my gun room, it would be the last I would use. I do not give a wit about expended energy on the game animal. I think that is a debate for mathamatitians rather than hunters. What I do believe in is an exit wound. So much so, that I have shot at least a half dozen deer over the last 6 or 7 years with a 318 WR using the classic 250 gr RN solid. All had perfect .33 cal holes through and through, and none went more than fifty yards - most less than fifty feet. With the .223, I have to rely on the bullet performing optimally - with a suitable deer round, I only worry about my shooting being optimal. And should it not be, I have a few mm's of extra damage and an exit wound to try and sort out my error.

Noone I know recovers bullets from a white tail u hjt with 5.56 unless shot end to end or something.

I do agree and understand about optimal bullet performance, though. If the .224 fails to open and barring that, fails to tumble, then it's going to be no fun for you or the deer. This is part of why I do use the best ammo I can. All my friends and I have only had deer that died in 25 to 75 yards, with a quarter sized hole or better through both sides of the chest and royally messed up heart lung area.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I may have caused some misunderstanding with my post. The reason I use the TTSX and not the TSX is because the TTSX starts opening faster.........even Barnes states this. I have also seen the TSX close up when striking bone at certain angles and just pencil thru. At least that is what it looked like. The TTSX have always expanded.
Yes the Barnes bullets like a lot of jump. They also preform better the faster you push them. They also seem to be more accurate the faster you push them. They work best if you go to a lighter bullet weight than you would use in a lead core bullet and they will preform like a lead core bullet 30% heaver, You do need to start with a super clean barrel.......forget #9 and use something like Sweets 7.62. Then if you shoot some regular jacketed bullets clean again before shooting barnes. Doing so I have not had fouling or accuracy troubles like I had with the old X-Bullet.

Just what I have learned using Barnes bullets and trying the GMX bullet

@Divernhunter
There's a great article on this forum where someone used a 257 Weatherby for their PG hunt using the TTSX with devastating effect. It's a great article on the effectiveness of an ultra high speed 100 grain TTSX.
Bob.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

you are 100% correct #9 is next to useless on copper. I'm lazy and hate the smell of Sweets so I now use wipeout. I was really not expecting it to work as well as sweets but was surprised it works better without the potential corrosive effects

@lcq
I am basically lazy and find foaming note cleaner as effective as sweets with less effort.
Spay, leave, wipe and done.
Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I'm not certain why broken petals are such a concern to many. Typically all it means is the bullet tumbled inside the animal while still going at relatively high speed. Bend metal one way when the bullet expands and then the other when it tumbles and changes direction and the petal/petals sheer off. It's typically no test of bullet strength of all but rather just the path the bullet took. I've seen everything from one petal to all petals missing with all three of mono metals mentioned. They all had one thing in common....they came from a dead animal! We've been brainwashed into believing that only perfect mushrooms are acceptable. That's not always the case depending on the path the bullet takes.

@sheephunterab
An Australian company that used to make monos ACP designed their projectiles to lose petals. The reason being these petals were supposed to fly off causing more damage while the base kept on going. Whether this is in fact true I don't know but I did manage to get some game that was very dead with holes in both sides and a lot of damage in between.
Bob

 

[Fastrig]

@Divernhunter
There's a great article on this forum where someone used a 257 Weatherby for their PG hunt using the TTSX with devastating effect. It's a great article on the effectiveness of an ultra high speed 100 grain TTSX.
Bob.

A 257 Weatherby firing 110-120 grain rounds is a powerful punch to anything it hits. I used 90 grain mono-metal rounds on white tail and whatever direction the bullet was fly is the way the fell like a domino.

 

[Viral_SIGness]

I'm not certain why broken petals are such a concern to many. Typically all it means is the bullet tumbled inside the animal while still going at relatively high speed. Bend metal one way when the bullet expands and then the other when it tumbles and changes direction and the petal/petals sheer off. It's typically no test of bullet strength of all but rather just the path the bullet took. I've seen everything from one petal to all petals missing with all three of mono metals mentioned. They all had one thing in common....they came from a dead animal! We've been brainwashed into believing that only perfect mushrooms are acceptable. That's not always the case depending on the path the bullet takes.

I believe on light skinned animals, it is no big deal. But I'd say, in DG, you want to as much weight possible to keep it moving forward. I have never bought into the male bovine excrement, that the pedals "going outward", or complete frag, does more damage.

It's usually Berger fans that say that kind of thing. Berger has never changed their bullets. It's just that one dummy shot a deer with their target bullets, and it killed it. That dummy told another dummy, and pretty soon, Berger stepped up and said "oh yeah, we knew that, thats why we built them that way", and stuck "hunting" on the label. I love it when those same people say "the kinetic energy is completely transfered". Even though the ft/lbs has jack didly poop to do with a bullets killing ability.