First trip to africa. How to build a heavy arrow

[BSO Dave]

What do You, experienced bowhunters, think of this? Is it somehow useful?

Those guidelines are outdated given the data we now have on the momentum generated by heavier arrows with higher FOC's. The data has shown that you do not need to draw 70lbs. to effectively bowhunt a larger animals like a kudu or eland. Most medium to larger African plainsgame animals can be effectively bowhunted with draw weights as little as 50lbs. provided the arrow/broadhead combination is correct and the bow is tuned to the arrows.

The momentum generated from a 50lb. bow shooting a 600+ grain arrow with a 20% or higher FOC is significantly greater than the same bow shooting a 400 grain arrow that is lacking both the correct proportion of FOC and total arrow weight. Broadhead selection is also a significant part of the equation. To facilitate the best penetration possible, lower poundage bows require compact, low angle broadheads that create the least amount of friction.

 

[sureshot375]

I went with a simple approach. I shoot Easton FMJs with the 75 grain brass inserts. I’m happy with it for a good all around setup on the heavyish side. It shoot 100gr montecs, but you could easily top it off with something heavier and sharper.

 

[joker2400]

Hi, for next safari I am too contemplating the way of the bow ... but I am just starting with archery so I began with doing some research first and found this:

Bow hunting regulations in South Africa is what the law says

Bow hunting regulations South Africa. Bow hunting regulations in South Africa are there for a reason. Regulations as per trophy animal.

huntinginafricasafaris.com

Draw weight bow hunting African game with the bow hunting fanatics

Draw weight to bow hunt African game. Draw weight African plains game. Draw weight dangerous game. Draw weight for your dream bow hunt.

huntinginafricasafaris.com

Seems like pretty nice guide of what arrow build you need for particular animal, even though some things does not seem right to me (KE 50 for nyala???).

What do You, experienced bowhunters, think of this? Is it somehow useful?

According to the data Your setup gives KE 52 ft/lbs (if I am not mistaken) so suited only for the smallest of antelopes. Below is the data from the web and calculated arrow weights according to the DW multiplied by coeficients normal/heavy game.

View attachment 493379

I think this chart is terrible. A setup that can handle a sable could easily handle a lion, but more applicable would be that the same setup that does well with an impala will likely do well with kudu. However, the same setup that does well for kudu may not be optimal for a zebra.

Each animal is fairly unique anatomically and that cannot be ignored. I may be in the minority, but I don’t think setup for many of the antelopes requires any more or less consideration than you would give a mature whitetail buck. What is more important is knowing your capabilities and where to aim. Just my opinion‍

 

[mdwest]

reviving an older thread to continue the heavy arrow discussion...

I'm building a heavier arrow for the next PG hunt than I used last time... Im sitting right at 615 grains right now.. but the FOC calculator is telling me I am only at 15 FOC... I was thinking with the 100gr insert and 125 gr broadhead I'd be a little closer to 20..

Im shooting carbon express pile driver 350's.. a 29.75" arrow... the bow is currently set at about 65lbs draw and is IBO rated at 312 FPS (no clue what it really shoots, or even shoots these particular heavy arrows at.. its certainly not a speed demon by today's standard).. the CE chart says the 350 spine should be fine with that draw weight and arrow weight.. but it looks like Im on the edge of needing to stiffen the spine another step or so if I go much heavier..

Im pretty pleased with the 615gr weight.. and the arrows are flying true/accurate the way they are currently set up...

Just how vital does anyone think trying to get closer to the 20 FOC value is? Im most likely looking at medium sized PG at most (maybe kudu? more than likely just impala, warthog, blesbok, etc.. and MAYBE another wildebeest (I cant seem to resist a nice blue)..

 

[375 Ruger Fan]

@mdwest have you considered using 200 gr broad heads instead of the 125? That will increase your FOC (also total weight unless you remove some of the insert weight)

 

[joker2400]

I don’t think you will see significant improvements in penetration by chasing 20% FOC with the animals you are chasing. A well constructed solid broadhead on a 615g arrow will most likely be a complete pass through

 

[BSO Dave]

Im pretty pleased with the 615gr weight.. and the arrows are flying true/accurate the way they are currently set up...

FOC is an important part of the overall equation, but the actual percentage of FOC is a guideline. I agree with @joker2400 it's not important to get caught up in the actual FOC percentage, but to build an arrow that can generate the necessary momentum through a combination of FOC, total arrow weight, proper tune, and the right broadhead.

Keep in mind that more FOC will usually only help in both penetration and tune, but if your 615gr arrows are flying true at 15% FOC, you have achieved your goal and you will be very happy with your penetration. Now, if you were having trouble getting your arrows to fly well, I would advise considering increasing the FOC as part of the tuning process. But, in doing so, you might also have to increase the arrow spine.

Just curious.. Have you shot your 615gr. arrows through paper at 20-30 yards? Don't expect to see perfect bullet holes but your tears should be small and all the same pattern. It's a good tuning check that lets you know how well your arrows are really flying as they impact the target down range.

Lots of bowhunters think their arrows are flying well because they are grouping well. Tight groups and proper tune are not always mutually occurring. Even though a bowhunter is successful in killing an animal, their arrows might be flying way out of tune. If you have ever watched one of those "professional" hunting shows with a slow motion shot of the arrow in flight and the arrow is flying sideways or fishtailing, you will know what I mean...The problem with this is that bad tune robs energy and drastically affects accuracy at longer distances.

 

[mikecatt13]

Unfortunately at my age and build I just cant draw much over 55 lbs so I have to adapt to that.

At least with lower draw weight you have a decent draw length. Many women (including my wife) have an uphill battle because of shorter draw lengths, almost regardless of what weight can be pulled. You will be fine at 55lbs, 28" with the right arrow.

I am using properly spined easton FMJs with full brass inserts and heavy broadhead to easily get a nice total weight and FOC for both my bow and my wife's

 

[firehuntfish]

FOC is an important part of the overall equation, but the actual percentage of FOC is a guideline. I agree with @joker2400 it's not important to get caught up in the actual FOC percentage, but to build an arrow that can generate the necessary momentum through a combination of FOC, total arrow weight, proper tune, and the right broadhead.

Keep in mind that more FOC will usually only help in both penetration and tune, but if your 615gr arrows are flying true at 15% FOC, you have achieved your goal and you will be very happy with your penetration. Now, if you were having trouble getting your arrows to fly well, I would advise considering increasing the FOC as part of the tuning process. But, in doing so, you might also have to increase the arrow spine.

Just curious.. Have you shot your 615gr. arrows through paper at 20-30 yards? Don't expect to see perfect bullet holes but your tears should be small and all the same pattern. It's a good tuning check that lets you know how well your arrows are really flying as they impact the target down range.

Lots of bowhunters think their arrows are flying well because they are grouping well. Tight groups and proper tune are not always mutually occurring. Even though a bowhunter is successful in killing an animal, their arrows might be flying way out of tune. If you have ever watched one of those "professional" hunting shows with a slow motion shot of the arrow in flight and the arrow is flying sideways or fishtailing, you will know what I mean...The problem with this is that bad tune robs energy and drastically affects accuracy at longer distances.

Excellent advice Dave! I wouldn't add a thing!

 

[mdwest]

Just curious.. Have you shot your 615gr. arrows through paper at 20-30 yards? Don't expect to see perfect bullet holes but your tears should be small and all the same pattern. It's a good tuning check that lets you know how well your arrows are really flying as they impact the target down range.

I havent... I've only paper tuned at the typical distance (about 8-10 feet)...

I'll give that a shot the next time I am at the range and let you know how things look.. thanks for the tip!

 

[BSO Dave]

I havent... I've only paper tuned at the typical distance (about 8-10 feet)...

When you do your initial paper tune, try and shoot even closer... 6 feet or less is best. If you are beyond that, your arrow is already trying to recover, and you will miss some of what you are actually trying to determine which is how the arrow is flying off the string.

I'll give that a shot the next time I am at the range and let you know how things look.. thanks for the tip!

I forgot to mention to broadhead tune first and then do the longer range paper tune check with your broadheads and not field points.. You want to see what your hunting arrow is doing. As I said, don't worry of you do not have a perfect bullet hole tear in the paper. That is nearly impossible to achieve, but you should be close. In other words, if you have a bigger that 1/2-3/4" tear in any direction, I would make some micro-adjustments with the rest to get it under 1/2".. If the tear is 3/4" or less at 30 yards, your arrow is flying pretty good! Good luck!

 

[mdwest]

thanks for the advice!

Im actually in search of an "Africa" broadhead..

for whitetail I've got mechanicals.. the last trip to South Africa I used G5 Montec (still have them).. but I was a bit underwhelmed by them.. They definitely do not come sharp out of the box (at least not sharp enough).. and they are a serious PIA to get sharp (this is from a guy that makes knives, has the right tools, and knows how to get things very sharp)..

Im looking hard at 125 gr fixed broadheads now trying to make a decision... Im thinking the Magnus Stinger might be a good option (going to try a few before I make a final call)..

 

[joker2400]

thanks for the advice!

Im actually in search of an "Africa" broadhead..

for whitetail I've got mechanicals.. the last trip to South Africa I used G5 Montec (still have them).. but I was a bit underwhelmed by them.. They definitely do not come sharp out of the box (at least not sharp enough).. and they are a serious PIA to get sharp (this is from a guy that makes knives, has the right tools, and knows how to get things very sharp)..

Im looking hard at 125 gr fixed broadheads now trying to make a decision... Im thinking the Magnus Stinger might be a good option (going to try a few before I make a final call)..

I was impressed with the tooth of the arrow last trip. I’m looking at the heads that vector custom shop makes or the SlickTrick solid head.

I’m not ready to invest in Iron wills for plains game yet

 

[BSO Dave]

Im looking hard at 125 gr fixed broadheads now trying to make a decision... Im thinking the Magnus Stinger might be a good option (going to try a few before I make a final call)..

Any fixed blade, compact, heavy-duty (all-steel) design would be my recommendation. 2-blade designs are very reliable choices, but they tend to be harder to tune. If you find one that flies well from your set-up, they are a very dependable option. I would also look at the compact designs like Muzzy Trocars, Slicktricks, or anything similar..

As a general rule, I do not like expandables for many reasons for any game beyond turkeys. They hemorrhage precious momentum in deploying and have a tendency to deflect trajectory upon impact. In my opinion, they are not the best option for large game and especially African plainsgame.

 

[1dirthawker]

Any fixed blade, compact, heavy-duty (all-steel) design would be my recommendation. 2-blade designs are very reliable choices, but they tend to be harder to tune. If you find one that flies well from your set-up, they are a very dependable option. I would also look at the compact designs like Muzzy Trocars, Slicktricks, or anything similar..

As a general rule, I do not like expandables for many reasons for any game beyond turkeys. They hemorrhage precious momentum in deploying and have a tendency to deflect trajectory upon impact. In my opinion, they are not the best option for large game and especially African plainsgame.

I agree with dave here. with impala sized animals, the speed, arrow weight, FOC thing is not that critical, but, it does not change the fact that mechanical broad heads are designed to cut a wide hole, not necessarily a deep hole. oh yeah, and they are fragile.

i am a true believer that if a 2 bladed broad heads (single bevels are better) are good enough for cape buffalo, (required) then i suspect they will do a fine job on anything smaller.

my current (and new to me setup) is a matthews bow (not sure model, recent one) with my 30" draw at 65#. it sends 650 gr arrows (grizzly stick AND full metal jacket arrows both shoot to same POI) at 241 fps. arrows with 200 gr masai or cutthroat broad heads fly true. i built this setup to shoot a moose, which i shot 2 weeks ago at 30 yards. the arrow skipped thru the bull and i will have to look for it in the spring/summer.

i believe in using heavier and weight forward arrows because the science behind arrow lethality shows that it is a much better setup than really fast, light arrows. if you read the Dr Ashby story, you will see how and why he settled on his ideas. his recovery record after going to heavier, high FOC arrow is phenomenal. so, thats why I went down that road. he did spend lots of time in africa, shooting african game and that time also directed his ideas on arrow lethality.

he stated that the arrow is where the most gain is and that you could shoot a 50# bow with a more lethal setup than a 70# bow with a light fast arrow and a crappy broad head.

the most important consideration in my mind is: what is the largest animal you will be hunting? set up your bow for that animal, anything smaller will be nicely covered.

good luck on your hunt