First Safari: What made you decide on a particular Outfitter?

[BRICKBURN]

I started my search by bouncing every outfit that did not post their rates.

.......
Very interested as to why you would automatically eliminate an outfitter based on this? .........

Fair enough question.

I think you answered your question in your own statement.

...as long as they are straightforward in their price proposal

I see website design and transparent presentation of detailed information as an indicator of the mind set of the owner and indeed how they are being "straightforward" or not.

Price lists are one piece of information.

I also have no use for:
Out of date websites -
Misleading information - Problem Lions from Botswana, etc.
Plagiarism and theft - Pictures taken from other websites without credit, etc. (I have personally had my pictures misused by an Outfitter.)

 

[billc]

Same for me no price list off the list they go. No reason not to show prices if there the firm prices are not unless they have something to hide. I will not look at any place that has different prices for the same animal either. Either one price and you take the best you can find or forget it. Anyone charging by inch is dealing in some BS in my mind. Normally ends up being a over stocked auction animal place with nice easy hunting to just make people happy that don't know no better.

 

[Adrian]

I agree. No published prices means I'm not interested.
I see little point in presenting a wonderful website to show off the experience you are offering, only to leave off one of the most important aspects of what potential clients should be looking at.
What is there to hide?
Why not publish them?
I genuinely don't get it.

 

[Tom Leoni]

As a first-time safari shopper, I also tend not to return to sites that don't publish prices. I'm not necessarily thinking that the outfitter has something to hide; I understand and justify the concept of prices being for quick reference only. But non-listed prices mean losing a major yardstick as you're doing your initial comparison shopping. As I implied in my initial post, it's daunting enough a process WITH prices, with all the myriad variables to take into consideration!

A 350/day fee Vs. a 450/day fee may not mount up to much difference in a <10 day safari, but once you count trophy fees (as wildly different as $800/kudu Vs. $2,800)--not to mention what's included in the fees DOES make a difference in my decision-making. Add to this the non-hunter fees, transport to and from the airport counting as a full day, a non-hunting day or something that's included in the package--not to mention things as important as dipping and packing, and you can see how this makes a major difference for a non-insider.

 

[billc]

Yeah first time guys have a hard time with animal pricing a lot of times. I feel some outfitters use the difference sometime unfairly to there advantage because a hunter may not ask them a question that makes them spell it out.

Your kudu reference is the perfect one to show that. 800 is a cape kudu which is a blast to hunt but most will be 44 to 48 with a 50" kudu being a giant in the cape. Then you will see Greater kudu go from 1500 to well over 6000 depending on the place. Must outfitters start hunting greater kudu at 50" and go up to 60". It is up to the hunter to decide what is worth it but very few even know the difference.

I myself look at both kudu as different and like to hunt them both. The same can happen with bushbuck as you have the limpo and the cape bushbuck. One cost 500 to 750 and the other is normally 1000 to 1500. Again the limpo is bigger on avg and cost more but both are fun to hunt.

Now a guy could get some quotes and from different areas. If he just looks a the numbers he will see some will run higher but may not know why other then thinking one guy just charges more when it can be the quality and size of the animals each area can put out.

 

[firehuntfish]

A final note regarding my selection of @Limcroma Safaris. I spoke at length with @firehuntfish, their US rep. Part of how he sold me on hunting with them was by actually not selling Limcroma. I was researching our first safari and Dan provided endless advise and suggestions not necessarily specific to Limcroma. His passion for hunting in Africa and willingness to help and educate me, even if I wasn't going to book with him, ended up being a major part of why I booked with him.

Interesting you mention that @rinehart0050. I also had numerous conversations both in email and over the phone with Dan (firehuntfish) prior to booking our safari, and I had the exact same experience. Not only did he answer me almost immediately every time I emailed or called, he also gave me lots of insightful, objective information based on his personal experiences, and not just touting Limcroma. He actually encouraged our family to do our own research and make the best decision for ourselves based on what we discover in our research. Turns out that all of the research we did kept pointing back to Limcroma as the best fit for us, and we can't say enough great things about our safari with them. But I agree, that the way Limcroma was presented to us made them all that more appealing.

@rinehart0050 & @BSO Dave,

Thank you both for the kind remarks. It was truly my pleasure meeting and working with both of your families. I am happy and privileged that I was able to help, even in some small part, to assist in planning what is usually the trip of a lifetime for most folks. I can vividly remember that feeling of being overwhelmed and not knowing where to start or who to trust back when I was planning our first safari so many years ago. I also reached out to some experienced folks who were both generous with their time and advice in guiding us with our research. Some of those folks were on hunting forums just like this one. That assistance was invaluable to us, and I promised myself that I would pay it forward if I ever had the opportunity to do so....

Although I represent Limcroma Safaris with great pride, my goal is to promote everything Africa has to offer. I sincerely hope that everyone traveling to Africa has the very best safari possible regardless of their destination or outfitter of choice. If someone can benefit from my personal experience, and that helps them make the best choice for themselves, then I am successful.

I would extend that same invitation to you @Tom Leoni.... You don't need to hunt with Limcroma feel welcome to contact me anytime with questions about hunting or traveling to Africa. It would be a pleasure to help if I can.

 

[Mike70560]

I found people with a few common traits:

A.) salt of the earth people that worked hard for their money. (E.g. Ditch diggers, carpenters, farmers)

B.) that also happened to have similar hunting ethics, aversions to fences, aversion to hunting introduced species....purists

C.) that also happened to be multimillionaires through hard work. So even though frugal, they can afford the very, very best hunting in the world.

It just so happened that all their advice was the same, they all used the same PH for 30 years, and the costs were not much more than an entry level RSA fenced hunt.

So that's how I decided. The key point is to match your ethics to the references. Don't take advice from people with different hunting ethics than yours or no matter where you go or what you spend, you may be very put off by the experience that was recommended.

Extremely good advice.

In regards to pricing; after 8 safaris in 5 countries, the 5 different outfitters with whom I have hunted do not post prices on their websites. Never phased me a bit.

 

[rookhawk]

Extremely good advice.

In regards to pricing; after 8 safaris in 5 countries, the 5 different outfitters with whom I have hunted do not post prices on their websites. Never phased me a bit.

Agreed on the no price on website being a non-issue, at least in Zim.

Gonarhezou, matetsi, hwange, nyakasunga, chewore, sapi, Tuli, campfire, bubye, save, chirisa, kariba, chete, all these places change prices with crazy volatility. A price isn't worth the paper it's printed on. You need a quote for the days, date and bag you will hunt. If anyone can give you a price sheet 24 months out they have to be crazy or overcharging to cover their own exposure on such a forecast.

There are many PHs that don't even have or need a website. My PH is full up via word of mouth most of the time and he lost the password to update his website about ten years ago.

Now if a rancher in RSA can't give you an online price sheet, different story. Their animals, their ranch, they should know.

 

[BRICKBURN]

Extremely good advice.

In regards to pricing; after 8 safaris in 5 countries, the 5 different outfitters with whom I have hunted do not post prices on their websites. Never phased me a bit.

Mike, statistically, you are outside the norm.
Certainly, not the typical first timer checking out a 5 species plains game in the most popular countries.

Agreed on the no price on website being a non-issue, at least in Zim.
........

or Tanzania, Ethiopia, Uganda, CAR, etc. are all a different market.
Smaller number of operators, very limited market, etc.

 

[KMG Hunting Safaris]

.....you have the limpo and the cape bushbuck. One cost 500 to 750 and the other is normally 1000 to 1500. Again the limpo is bigger on avg and cost more but both are fun to hunt.

This is not the first time that you have referenced this and I beg to differ.

 

[billc]

This is not the first time that you have referenced this and I beg to differ.

You can beg to differ as it is just what I have found overall in my research on kudu and bushbuck. Again I am talking overall not just one outfit hear or there. Have not seen many pictures of cape bushbuck over the 15" or 16" but have seen more then a few limpo bushbuck over that. If one looks around you will see limpo bushbuck of 16 and even 17" taken each year. Do the same for the cape and your looking at 14" and 15".

Most guys charge less as well in the cape and there is normally a reason for that. To me nothing wrong with it as I like and have hunted for both. I look at them as two different bushbuck as well as two different kudu. My problem is there is a few who just tell clients we hunt kudu and bushbuck and use the cheaper price to help sell the hunt but don't tell the client the difference they are getting. I think we can both say there is a difference in both bushbuck and kudu.

I have talked with more then a few first timers and even clients who did not understand the difference. They thought they got this great price and had a great chance at taking a kudu over 50" or better yet a mid 50's. Same with bushbuck hoping to take a 15 to 16 at the better price. Both could happen but we know not at all as liking to do that in certain areas.

I hope your not saying they are both not fun to hunt. LOL

Again just my thoughts

 

[KMG Hunting Safaris]

Have not seen many pictures of cape bushbuck over the 15" or 16"

Maybe you should pull up my 2015 season where the smallest ram for the year was 14.5" and that was for only one animal. Most cleared 15" with a couple of 16" rams in the mix.
I'm happy to start posting photos on a tit for tat measure on Bushbuck.

 

[johnnyblues]

I'm a veteran of over 50 hunting trips outside of my home state. I always talk to references both successful and not. Sometimes you can get a feel for the particular outfit you are considering and sometimes even though you have both references you don't. Try not to consider too many outfits otherwise things can get confusing. Try to narrow down a particular area or in Africa's case country you want to hunt. Remember some animals are better in say Namibia than in SA, and visa versa. That being said most outfits with higher prices will have very very nice lodges. I believe just about everyone in Africa offers really nice places but you'll pay a premium for the more exclusive places. Will you get much better trophies in those places?, probably not enough to want to pay the higher prices. But if price is no object than that's a mute point. This is without a doubt the place to find your African hunt. For me I made my first trip in 2015 for leopard and plains game. I'm ranting here so to get back to your question I booked based on his area for leopard, references and success rate. That being said I over paid for the leopard , lesson learned for this veteran of out of state hunts. Had I come here first I would have saved a lot of .

 

[johnnyblues]

Maybe you should pull up my 2015 season where the smallest ram for the year was 14.5" and that was for only one animal. Most cleared 15" with a couple of 16" rams in the mix.
I'm happy to start posting photos on a tit for tat measure on Bushbuck.

Ok Marius you and I will shoot a 17 inch bushbuck and put this to rest.

 

[billc]

Maybe you should pull up my 2015 season where the smallest ram for the year was 14.5" and that was for only one animal. Most cleared 15" with a couple of 16" rams in the mix.
I'm happy to start posting photos on a tit for tat measure on Bushbuck.

As I said not comparing one guy to another but what areas have to offer. I said on avg. and not just one year worth by what I found. Also not by looking at one persons website to come up with what I have found. It is what I have heard or seen with my ears and eyes by talking with people when I started looking at going to Africa 6 years ago. I went in knowing that the kudu and bushbuck were different so I was ok. Some guys go in not knowing and get sold something that is not equal.

I have told you on post more then once you have taken some great bushbuck. No outfits in the cape equal your bushbuck that I have found and that is just a fact.

Since you have not talked about my thought on the kudu I guess we can agree there. Don't take in personal as I am just giving my comments on a thread as I see them as you can also.

 

[billc]

Ok Marius you and I will shoot a 17 inch bushbuck and put this to rest.

Johnny and you know I would be very happy for you if you did.

 

[KMG Hunting Safaris]

Ok Marius you and I will shoot a 17 inch bushbuck and put this to rest.

Haha John, Quite the opportunist.

 

[johnnyblues]

Haha John, Quite the opportunist.

Mom raised ugly kids not stupid ones. Lol

 

[BSO Dave]

As a first-time safari shopper, I also tend not to return to sites that don't publish prices. I'm not necessarily thinking that the outfitter has something to hide; I understand and justify the concept of prices being for quick reference only. But non-listed prices mean losing a major yardstick as you're doing your initial comparison shopping. As I implied in my initial post, it's daunting enough a process WITH prices, with all the myriad variables to take into consideration!

A 350/day fee Vs. a 450/day fee may not mount up to much difference in a <10 day safari, but once you count trophy fees (as wildly different as $800/kudu Vs. $2,800)--not to mention what's included in the fees DOES make a difference in my decision-making. Add to this the non-hunter fees, transport to and from the airport counting as a full day, a non-hunting day or something that's included in the package--not to mention things as important as dipping and packing, and you can see how this makes a major difference for a non-insider.

@Tom Leoni , I hear ya loud and clear. Everyone here with the exception of Brickburn was a first-timer to Africa at some point. I think Brickburn was born with 5 safaris already under his belt.

My best advice to you is to do your research and make sure you understand all of the differences in price, location, services, and quality etc., BEFORE you make your decision. The amount of information can seem endless. At times it can also be both confusing and intimidating, but you have to ask questions and get answers from multiple reliable sources. You don't have to be an insider to make a smart decision. You just have to put in the time, and it will begin to make sense. The research can actually be half of the fun. Enjoy the ride!

 

[BRICKBURN]

@Tom Leoni , I hear ya loud and clear. Everyone here with the exception of Brickburn was a first-timer to Africa at some point. I think Brickburn was born with 5 safaris already under his belt.
................

Your humour speaks volumes.
I sure as heck was not in the norm in my research process, but I certainly started like everyone else.
How many first time hunters search Thousands of websites? I'll bet that club has me sitting alone in a bar somewhere.

My original answer is not a suggested recipe for a everyone. It is just what I happened to do.