Felt Recoil - what has been your experience

[Northern Shooter]

@AZDAVE
A mate bought a 458 win mag for a bargain price with a box of factory ammo that had only fired 2 rounds.
After firing 2 rounds himself he sold it for a bit more than he paid still with 16 rounds.
He said it was more than sporty in the recoil dept. What he said isn't repeatable even in this rough crowd.
The rifle weighed in at just on 7# , no wonder she kicked a bit. Thin barrel and a but not much thicker than a fence paling that had been attacked by termites. Recoil pad was hard rubber about 1" wide
Bob

I’ve seen quite a few lightweight 458WM rifles in the 7.5-8.5lb range, that’s just too light. I imagine it’s due to the popularity of the cartridge and being able to be chambered in standard long action rifles. The Ruger No.1 is a good example.

I find my new Model 70 at 9.0lbs to be too light for full power 500gr 458 WM loads.

I believe 10.0-10.5lb would be an appropriate range for that cartridge. That brings the recoil numbers down to around ~65 ft-lbs.

 

[ldmay375]

I agree of subjective. Regardless of bore diameter, case capacity, weight, recoil calculations or fit; I will not be using a rifle brings real pain to me on a regular basis.

 

[Jay Kelley]

I've got a CZ550 American in .375 H&H and a 557 Carbine in .30-06. Felt recoil is about the same. Kind of stiff, but a trip to the range isn't a frightening prospect.

On the other hand, I've got an H&R single shot 12 gauge that beats you up even with the lightest loads. I didn't notice it when I was 18, but at several times 18, that thing just hurts.

 

[saswart]

I think @saswart just needs to man up and grow a pair

My 450 Rigby was a learning curve and took some getting used to. Dubbed that the Chiropractor...

My new 500 Jeffery with Silvers Recoil pad makes the 450 feel tame...

DWB (Deon)... Hahaha, I probably need to yes. But then again, it seems I can handle it...

 

[AZDAVE]

@Bob Nelson 35Whelen 7 Lbs in a 458WM would be punishing. That whole rifle sound like it was a bad idea from the start.

 

[HookMeUpII]

@Bob Nelson 35Whelen 7 Lbs in a 458WM would be punishing. That whole rifle sound like it was a bad idea from the start.

I have a Ruger No1 in 458WM and depending on who you ask, it should be somewhere from 7.5-8.5 lbs. The recoil is punishing, just as you described. I've shot 12g 3.5" slugs, 300WM, 45-70, 30-30 from a light lever gun, etc. This is something else. The 458WM in the Ruger is enough to really, really ring your bell good. The only thing I feel comes close is old school 3.5" 12g slugs from a light pump. Basically a grizzly bear park ranger round.

Bolt guns definitely add weight but the problem then becomes feeding a big bore belted cartridge. The 375 HH seem to feed OK but supposedly, the 458WM is not great to cycle in a bolt gun. So a double might be the way to go there, price aside.

IMO, which doesn't matter much, the 416 Rigby is the ultimate round and you can see why it gets so much praise. Tremendous power, good SD, and no belting.

I guess it's all relative though. I'm sure if I was looking down the barrel at a cape buffalo I probably wouldn't be thinking much about the recoil.

 

[BWH]

Maybe I am just a masochist, my first big game rifles were shotguns. I learned proper holding form and trigger control. I can't say that I enjoy recoil, but it just doesn't bother me. You never feel it when shooting at game anyway. My 2 brothers never wanted to hunt deer as they were afraid of the recoil. My son and daughter are also not bothered by recoil.

You are not wrong here…. I think people that are use to shooting slugs or heavy waterfowl loads are less susceptible to recoil. The recoil from those are more significant than most rifle loads. All very subjective.

 

[DLSJR]

I’m a bit late to this thread as I’ve just returned from a few days duck & goose hunting in Idaho. One thing that may have been mentioned but I didn’t notice is the effect a foam filled fiberglass stock has on reducing felt recoil. All of the rifles I hunt with have Brown Precision fiberglass stocks. They flex a bit under recoil and that has a dampening effect on recoil. I’ve discussed this with Mark Brown, owner of Brown Precision, and he told me that high speed photography shows their stocks flexing under recoil which noticeably reduces felt recoil.

Case in point…. My son shoots a .375 H&H Model 70 Safari Express that still has its original wood stock. The gun is 100% factory original and weighs right at 10 pounds. My .375 is a custom rifle built on a pre-64 action but with a Fiberglass stock and weighs 8.9 pounds. Shooting the exact same ammunition, a 300 grain TSX atop 70.0 grains of Reloader 15, my son shot his rifle 3 shots, followed by 3 shots from my rifle. Upon finishing he immediately said “I’m putting a fiberglass stock on my rifle before my next hunt with it.” I then shot both rifles and we completely agreed that recoil of my rifle felt noticeably milder than from his rifle, despite being a full pound lighter than his rifle. The difference was the fiberglass stock vs the walnut stock.

 

[Northern Shooter]

I like to express the magnitude of recoil on these big bores as multiples of 180 gr 30.06 loads.

From the Chuck Hawkes Table & Online Recoil Calculator: a 180 gr 30.06 out of a 8lb rifle produces 20.3 ft-lbs of recoil, let's call it 20.

A 300gr 375 out of a 9lb rifle produces almost twice the recoil (37ft-lbs)

A 400gr 404 Jeffery out of a 10.25lb rifle produces just over twice the recoil (41ft-lbs)

a 400gr 416 Rigby out of a 10lb rifle produces almost 3x the recoil (58ft-lbs)

A 500gr 458WM out of a 9lb rifle produces 3.5x the recoil (70ft-lbs)

A 570gr 500NE out of a 12lb rifle produces 4x the recoil (80ft-lbs)

A 570gr 500J or 505G out of a 11lb rifle produces 5x the recoil (~100 ft-lbs)

and so on.

Of course we could run the numbers all using the same standard 8.0lbs rifle but that starts to get scary the further you go up.

 

[HookMeUpII]

You are not wrong here…. I think people that are use to shooting slugs or heavy waterfowl loads are less susceptible to recoil. The recoil from those are more significant than most rifle loads. All very subjective.

Most of my hunting is waterfowl, with a 12g, and heavy loads. The 458WM from an 8 lb rifle is just out of control. I shoot a lot of 12g loads, yearly, as well.

I am sure if my 458WM was a 12 lb bolt gun, it would be a lot better.

 

[cajunchefray]

I’ve seen quite a few lightweight 458WM rifles in the 7.5-8.5lb range, that’s just too light. I imagine it’s due to the popularity of the cartridge and being able to be chambered in standard long action rifles. The Ruger No.1 is a good example.

I find my new Model 70 at 9.0lbs to be too light for full power 500gr 458 WM loads.

I believe 10.0-10.5lb would be an appropriate range for that cartridge. That brings the recoil numbers down to around ~65 ft-lbs.

Rifle Fit, Powder Charge, and Recoil Velocity matters. Personally, there is a factor of recoil Momentum, recoil Velocity, and recoil foot pounds that is not always captured by formulas. I respect the formulas as attempting to enumerate all this mathematically. Like foot-pounds of Muzzle Energy, this is not always relative to our human response to dynamic recoil.
. Weight of rifle and powder charge is factor is a function of the specifics of the rifle.:
THREE Examples:

- Whitworth, 458 WM weighs 8.6 pounds bare, 9.25 pounds with a Leupold 1-4x in Talley mounts. The stock profile fits me perfectly, (and I have two more Whitworth stocked rifles) and I shoot 500 grain 2150fps loads (74 Varget) accurately.
Definition of accuracy is 10 shot string, in 3 groups, with proper accuracy. We can debate accuracy on another thread, but hitting an 8" pie plate at 60 yards, every single shot is the standard.

400 grain Woodleigh SP at 2200 no problem.
350 grain Hornady SP at 2500 fps just slap me (70 gr. H4198)

- Ruger#1 450/400 Nitro, 400 grains at 2100fps. I hated to sell it, but I knew I couldn't shoot it accurately. It just knocked the piss out of me, worse than my CZ550 .500 Jeffery. I loved the excellent wood, bluing, balance of that Ruger, tried many different powders and loads. Okay with 300 grain bullets at 2400 fps, 400 grain at 2150 fps beyond my capability.

Ruger .416 Rigby Safari Magnum vs CZ500 .416 Rigby American Safari:

A big difference in shooting each.
First owned a CZ 550 Rigby American first year production..

Reloaded up and down to potential with several powders. Basically 25-30 grains more powder from my .416 Taylor or even .458 Win Mag.

The Ruger RSM did not fit worth a damn. The Ruger rifle was the forlorn beautiful brunette of our youth. Proper action, beautiful stocked, nice metal.

The Ruger RSM kicked way more than the CZ 550.

The recoil velocity from 17fps and above is significant.
By the mathematical charts, 70 ft.lbs. recoil energy is my limit.

 

[JG26Irish_2]

For my first safari, I set up a matched pair of FN Browning Hi-Power rifles for the trip. The light weight for PG was a 308 and was really an ultra-light rifle. I do not know the exact weight but it is not much over 7lb with scope on it. The bbl is not much larger in diameter than my pinky except at the chamber. Recoil is sharp! Surprising. I am not overly sensitive to recoil but this one was unexpected. The heavy gun is in 375HH. It is closer to a 10lb rifle and honestly it only recoils slightly more than the little 308. I have gotten used to shooting both and they severed me well. Fast forward to this past August. I had bought another 375HH. It was an ER Shaw custom P14 Enfield. A lovely, classic rifle which if anything, is a bit heavier than my 375 FN. I was in the process of dialing in a new scope on the Shaw rifle at the range and was shooting off a bench (not fun). My first two sessions with this rifle were not unusual. But, on my 3rd range session, I must have failed to get the stock tucked firmly into my shoulder pocket. The recoil hit me like a ton of bricks and after the 2nd shot, it was clear that it had injured my shoulder. I ended up with a bruise the size of my hand on my shoulder and severe pain in the shoulder joint. Both lasted for close to six weeks. I have since shot it without issue. Not sure why it hurt that one time. Shooting them off sticks or off hand is not an issue. In the field you do not even feel them.

A few weeks ago, I acquired a supper light weight rifle in 7mm Mag. It has a carbon fiber stock, a Titanium action, fluted stainless bbl with carbon wrap and weighs in at about 6.5lbs without scope. I was concerned that with such a featherweight rifle, the recoil might be unpleasant. However, this rig sports a very efficient muzzle break that reduces recoil by 30%. It is frightfully loud but the recoil is no worse and may be less than my 30-06. Pic of the Shaw rifle below.

 

[CoElkHunter]

Rifle Fit, Powder Charge, and Recoil Velocity matters. Personally, there is a factor of recoil Momentum, recoil Velocity, and recoil foot pounds that is not always captured by formulas. I respect the formulas as attempting to enumerate all this mathematically. Like foot-pounds of Muzzle Energy, this is not always relative to our human response to dynamic recoil.
. Weight of rifle and powder charge is factor is a function of the specifics of the rifle.:
THREE Examples:

- Whitworth, 458 WM weighs 8.6 pounds bare, 9.25 pounds with a Leupold 1-4x in Talley mounts. The stock profile fits me perfectly, (and I have two more Whitworth stocked rifles) and I shoot 500 grain 2150fps loads (74 Varget) accurately.
Definition of accuracy is 10 shot string, in 3 groups, with proper accuracy. We can debate accuracy on another thread, but hitting an 8" pie plate at 60 yards, every single shot is the standard.

400 grain Woodleigh SP at 2200 no problem.
350 grain Hornady SP at 2500 fps just slap me (70 gr. H4198)

- Ruger#1 450/400 Nitro, 400 grains at 2100fps. I hated to sell it, but I knew I couldn't shoot it accurately. It just knocked the piss out of me, worse than my CZ550 .500 Jeffery. I loved the excellent wood, bluing, balance of that Ruger, tried many different powders and loads. Okay with 300 grain bullets at 2400 fps, 400 grain at 2150 fps beyond my capability.

Ruger .416 Rigby Safari Magnum vs CZ500 .416 Rigby American Safari:

A big difference in shooting each.
First owned a CZ 550 Rigby American first year production..

Reloaded up and down to potential with several powders. Basically 25-30 grains more powder from my .416 Taylor or even .458 Win Mag.

The Ruger RSM did not fit worth a damn. The Ruger rifle was the forlorn beautiful brunette of our youth. Proper action, beautiful stocked, nice metal.

The Ruger RSM kicked way more than the CZ 550.

The recoil velocity from 17fps and above is significant.
By the mathematical charts, 70 ft.lbs. recoil energy is my limit.

Yes, sometimes the Siren's Song attempts to lure us into buying beautiful large bore rifles such as the Ruger #1 and RSM without ever having shot one. But as you've experienced, the recoil can be brutal in the largest cartridges. My meager discretionary firearm funds over the years has saved me from partaking. I only have CZ 550s, Whitworths and a Ruger Guide Gun but am content with the felt recoil to me generated from them. My CZ Lott and Rigby are my chosen limits for recoil.

 

[SFRanger7GP]

The hardware in my neck and shoulder lets me know my level of recoil tolerance. I have no issues with my 416 Rigby Big Game. I actually "feel" less recoil from it than I do my Merkel 9.3x74R double. The CZ 416 Rigby, Ruger #1 in 450/400 and VC 450/400 I could not tolerate. I know there are many variables that affect recoil but now all I care about is what my "body pain meter" tells me.

It wasn't always that way. When I was a young kid growing up in East Texas, I did most any odd job I could find around our farming community. More often than not, I got paid in "stuff". For a kid, "stuff" was better than money. One time after setting cedar fence posts all day, the farmer came out to settle up with his hands full of "stuff". Part of my new loot was a single shot 12 gauge shotgun and a bag full of Win XX 3" magnums. It had a 30" barrel and blond wood stock and forearm that was slightly lighter than Styrofoam. The barrel was marked Montgomery Wards Magnum. It had a latch that pulled to the rear to open it and a push forward safety behind the break down latch. I had to hold the stock between my legs and use both thumbs to open it. This was a 12 year old boy's dream!

As soon as I got home that evening, I wolfed down supper, grabbed my spotlight and my new prize and headed out to shoot some rabbits. I spotted a rabbit about 40 yards out in the hayfield. Long barrel shotgun and a 3" magnum shell? No problem! I rested the shotgun on a cross tie, flicked off the safety and squeezed the trigger. What happened next was my first true experience with recoil. I found myself sitting on the ground, confused and dazed with the forearm in one hand and the rest of the shotgun in the other. Blood was streaming from my forehead and nose. I wiped my face off with my t-shirt, snapped the forearm back on and loaded another 3' shell. I went out to where I had spotted the rabbit and there he was, deader than hell. I killed several rabbits that night and as I was more prepared for the recoil, I quickly developed a process of snapping the forearm back on, reload and wipe my bleeding nose.

I eventually made some "improvements". I added hose clamps and electric tape to keep the forearm on and some melted tire weights poured into some holes I drilled in the stock with a rubber slip on recoil pad from Gibson's Hardware. I even grew bigger so the nose bleeds stopped.

This and many other youth experiences set the path to become a Ranger and Weapons Man in my military career.

Safe shooting!!

 

[Frederik]

The hardware in my neck and shoulder lets me know my level of recoil tolerance. I have no issues with my 416 Rigby Big Game. I actually "feel" less recoil from it than I do my Merkel 9.3x74R double. The CZ 416 Rigby, Ruger #1 in 450/400 and VC 450/400 I could not tolerate. I know there are many variables that affect recoil but now all I care about is what my "body pain meter" tells me.

It wasn't always that way. When I was a young kid growing up in East Texas, I did most any odd job I could find around our farming community. More often than not, I got paid in "stuff". For a kid, "stuff" was better than money. One time after setting cedar fence posts all day, the farmer came out to settle up with his hands full of "stuff". Part of my new loot was a single shot 12 gauge shotgun and a bag full of Win XX 3" magnums. It had a 30" barrel and blond wood stock and forearm that was slightly lighter than Styrofoam. The barrel was marked Montgomery Wards Magnum. It had a latch that pulled to the rear to open it and a push forward safety behind the break down latch. I had to hold the stock between my legs and use both thumbs to open it. This was a 12 year old boy's dream!

As soon as I got home that evening, I wolfed down supper, grabbed my spotlight and my new prize and headed out to shoot some rabbits. I spotted a rabbit about 40 yards out in the hayfield. Long barrel shotgun and a 3" magnum shell? No problem! I rested the shotgun on a cross tie, flicked off the safety and squeezed the trigger. What happened next was my first true experience with recoil. I found myself sitting on the ground, confused and dazed with the forearm in one hand and the rest of the shotgun in the other. Blood was streaming from my forehead and nose. I wiped my face off with my t-shirt, snapped the forearm back on and loaded another 3' shell. I went out to where I had spotted the rabbit and there he was, deader than hell. I killed several rabbits that night and as I was more prepared for the recoil, I quickly developed a process of snapping the forearm back on, reload and wipe my bleeding nose.

I eventually made some "improvements". I added hose clamps and electric tape to keep the forearm on and some melted tire weights poured into some holes I drilled in the stock with a rubber slip on recoil pad from Gibson's Hardware. I even grew bigger so the nose bleeds stopped.

This and many other youth experiences set the path to become a Ranger and Weapons Man in my military career.

Safe shooting!!

Funny story thanks for sharing glad you got back on the horse and shot a bunch more.

 

[HookMeUpII]

For my first safari, I set up a matched pair of FN Browning Hi-Power rifles for the trip. The light weight for PG was a 308 and was really an ultra-light rifle. I do not know the exact weight but it is not much over 7lb with scope on it. The bbl is not much larger in diameter than my pinky except at the chamber. Recoil is sharp! Surprising. I am not overly sensitive to recoil but this one was unexpected. The heavy gun is in 375HH. It is closer to a 10lb rifle and honestly it only recoils slightly more than the little 308. I have gotten used to shooting both and they severed me well. Fast forward to this past August. I had bought another 375HH. It was an ER Shaw custom P14 Enfield. A lovely, classic rifle which if anything, is a bit heavier than my 375 FN. I was in the process of dialing in a new scope on the Shaw rifle at the range and was shooting off a bench (not fun). My first two sessions with this rifle were not unusual. But, on my 3rd range session, I must have failed to get the stock tucked firmly into my shoulder pocket. The recoil hit me like a ton of bricks and after the 2nd shot, it was clear that it had injured my shoulder. I ended up with a bruise the size of my hand on my shoulder and severe pain in the shoulder joint. Both lasted for close to six weeks. I have since shot it without issue. Not sure why it hurt that one time. Shooting them off sticks or off hand is not an issue. In the field you do not even feel them.

A few weeks ago, I acquired a supper light weight rifle in 7mm Mag. It has a carbon fiber stock, a Titanium action, fluted stainless bbl with carbon wrap and weighs in at about 6.5lbs without scope. I was concerned that with such a featherweight rifle, the recoil might be unpleasant. However, this rig sports a very efficient muzzle break that reduces recoil by 30%. It is frightfully loud but the recoil is no worse and may be less than my 30-06. Pic of the Shaw rifle below.

If you look at the recoil specs, 375HH should be almost the same, even less in some cases, than 300WM due to weight of the rifle. And 7mm is comparable, maybe a little less, than 300WM.

The 375HH is often in much heavier platforms with heavier barrels, stocks, etc. You might be looking at 8-10 lbs for a 300WM (or other 30 magnum rifle) and like 11-12 lbs for a big bore bolt gun (375HH, 458WM, etc).

I complained about shooting 300WM from an 9 lb rifle, until I shot 458WM from the Ruger. Same day I was breaking in a brand new 300WM. After I shot the 458 the 300WM felt like I was shooting an AR15. I never complained after that day.

 

[Rare Breed]

If you look at the recoil specs, 375HH should be almost the same, even less in some cases, than 300WM due to weight of the rifle. And 7mm is comparable, maybe a little less, than 300WM.

The 375HH is often in much heavier platforms with heavier barrels, stocks, etc. You might be looking at 8-10 lbs for a 300WM (or other 30 magnum rifle) and like 11-12 lbs for a big bore bolt gun (375HH, 458WM, etc).

I complained about shooting 300WM from an 9 lb rifle, until I shot 458WM from the Ruger. Same day I was breaking in a brand new 300WM. After I shot the 458 the 300WM felt like I was shooting an AR15. I never complained after that day.

A 375 at 11-12 in a bolt gun would be very heavy to me. My 470 NE DR is 11 pounds which is a perfect weight

 

[HookMeUpII]

A 375 at 11-12 in a bolt gun would be very heavy to me. My 470 NE DR is 11 pounds which is a perfect weight

You're right. More like 10-11 vs 10-12. Either way, much better than 7-8 lbs.

 

[Rare Breed]

i’m so with you!!!! My first 470 was 9.3 pounds and just about kicked me to death!!!!

 

[Northern Shooter]

i’m so with you!!!! My first 470 was 9.3 pounds and just about kicked me to death!!!!

Ouch. Sabatti?