Fail to fire question

[Hogpatrol]

Results of that will be inconclusive at best because primers alone wont expand the case and the brass often wont even hold the primer tight and it will back out, sometimes tying up the gun. You wont really learn a thing.

Ses, good point. I forgot about primers backing out on low pressure. It'd have to be a primer that the compound and anvil were removed.

 

[fourfive8]

All good points worthy of consideration so far in this thread about primer seating.

I have used a hand tool for years... stumbled into an old Sinclair type tool years ago for about $10 and never looked back. As the primer touches bottom, the leverage is high near the bottom of the stroke so "feel" is maximized. IMO, correct seating is knowing how to "feel" the best primer seating. That best fit and feel is going to be slightly different depending on the slight variations between the different cases and primers and the number of firings and pressure a case has been cycled through.

Ideally, you should feel the primer touch bottom... then add just a small "touch" more pressure- ever so slightly compressing bottom of primer to case's primer pocket bottom. Once seated the primer face should be just a "skosh" below flush with the cartridge base.

I've attempted to capture "correct" primer seating in pics- two angles plus a pic of the tool I use. Cartridge/primer on left after normal pressure firing and same cartridge/primer on right after correct seating.

 

[Philip Glass]

My Winchester safari express 375 has been failing to fire way more than a comfortable amount lately, and I have some questions.
I roll my own ammo and CCI 250 and Remington large rifle magnum primers have both failed,I feel that eliminated the primers being the problem but I suppose it still could be. The FTF problem has happened with Norma Winchester and PPU brass. I’ve never had a FTF with my A square or Remington brass. Could it be the brass? Could the primer pockets be too deep and causing a high primer? I clean the primer pockets ever loading
Sometimes a second strike will ignite it and sometimes it won’t. I have a hard time believing three different lots of brass to have the same problem. I seat the primers in the exact same manner every time.
The only common variable is the rifle. It’s happened since it was new and I keep it clean. I’ve ordered a new firing pin spring, and the pin seems to come through the bolt far enough. Also the brass isn’t stretching bad so I’m assuming the headspace is ok.
Thanks for the help!

Have you tried some factory ammo just for comparison?

 

[sestoppelman]

I have only ever primed on my RCBS Rock Chucker press and misfires due to primer seating is essentially non existent. I am careful though and feel each primer for depth after priming. I load a lot for semi auto rifles, Garands, M14's etc and there seating below flush is important. Most bolt rifles are pretty forgiving about seating depth as long as it is at least flush or a tad under.
I have even had bolt gun brass that would barely seat flush and still they go bang.
I suspect its something other than primer depth that is the issue here.

 

[Wyatt Smith]

Have you tried some factory ammo just for comparison?

No I’ve never bought store bought ammo for 375. I’ve also been reloading for 7 years and this is the first rifle I’ve had this problem with

 

[375 Ruger Fan]

I had a FTF problem with a slightly used, left hand Ruger M77 MKII in 300 WM that I bought off GB for a son-in-law. I had a GS check it out and he reported nothing out of spec and thought it could be an ammo problem. I ended up having the GS change out the firing pin spring and since then, no problems.

This is the link to that discussion: https://www.africahunting.com/threads/bolt-action-rifle-failed-to-fire.34739/

 

[Wyatt Smith]

I had a FTF problem with a slightly used, left hand Ruger M77 MKII in 300 WM that I bought off GB for a son-in-law. I had a GS check it out and he reported nothing out of spec and thought it could be an ammo problem. I ended up having the GS change out the firing pin spring and since then, no problems.

This is the link to that discussion: https://www.africahunting.com/threads/bolt-action-rifle-failed-to-fire.34739/

Thanks! I’m hoping it’s a weak FP spring.

 

[shootist~]

If you are handling the individual primers, it could be a primercontamination issue (oily fingers). My personal favorite is an RCBS Universal priming tool. Dump 100 at a time in the plastic tray and never touch with your fingers.

Someone mentioned excess sizing of the brass as a possible. A Hornady Cartridge Headspace Tool allows you to easily check how much you are setting back the shoulder - relative to your specific chamber. About .002" works well, or you might want a hair more for a DG rifle. For reference I see non belted factory ammo at around .007" Cartridge Headspace, and belted, (338 WM) at around .014", IIRC.

Replacing the firing pin and spring would be the obvious choice if nothing else works.

 

[Wyatt Smith]

It seems as if I received the wrong spring. The original is the short one. I will call in the morning and try to get the correct spring. So my progress will be delayed a little bit.

 

[JimP]

They may just tell you to cut on a piece of the one that you received. Quite possibly it will cost more to ship it back than it is worth.

In the meantime you can check the tension of the original vs the one that they shipped you. Take a bolt that will fit up into the inside one of the springs and push it down, then do it to the other one and see if you can feel a difference.

 

[Wyatt Smith]

They may just tell you to cut on a piece of the one that you received. Quite possibly it will cost more to ship it back than it is worth.

In the meantime you can check the tension of the original vs the one that they shipped you. Take a bolt that will fit up into the inside one of the springs and push it down, then do it to the other one and see if you can feel a difference.

I did check the tension but is an extra power spring and it did feel stronger. It said it’s fits pre and post 64 rifles, but does not fit either.
As for the shipping, the spring was $9, so I won’t pay much for the return shipping.

 

[Ridgewalker]

Just a little experience to relate. I got a new rifle which suddenly had occasional FTF. The primers didn’t appear to dent the same. The factory said to ship it back and they would take a look. Not having time before my trip to send it, I soaked the bolt assembly with Kroil. Blew it out and let it dry somewhat. Took it to the range for load tests. Fired close to 50 rounds that day on a Lead Sled (thank goodness!) not one FTF.
A second old (1950) Win70 30-06 was having the same inconsistent problems. I sprayed it with brake cleaner; blew dried it and oiled it well. It worked fine for the duration I owned it.
JME
Looking forward to what your fix is.

 

[PARA45]

Like @Philip Glass said, try factory ammo. I'd try factory ammo to rule out that it is not the rifle.

 

[Wyatt Smith]

Just a little experience to relate. I got a new rifle which suddenly had occasional FTF. The primers didn’t appear to dent the same. The factory said to ship it back and they would take a look. Not having time before my trip to send it, I soaked the bolt assembly with Kroil. Blew it out and let it dry somewhat. Took it to the range for load tests. Fired close to 50 rounds that day on a Lead Sled (thank goodness!) not one FTF.
A second old (1950) Win70 30-06 was having the same inconsistent problems. I sprayed it with brake cleaner; blew dried it and oiled it well. It worked fine for the duration I owned it.
JME
Looking forward to what your fix is.

Thanks, I have dissembled and cleaned the firing pin and all associated parts and wiped them with a rem oil soaked cloth when I installed the new safety last week and it still is failing.

 

[Wyatt Smith]

Like @Philip Glass said, try factory ammo. I'd try factory ammo to rule out that it is not the rifle.

I would but I would have to order it. While I’m no expert, I’ve loaded about 1000 30-06 rounds not to mention 30-30 .223 22-250 .308 and .338 and only had one other misfire.

 

[Ridgewalker]

Wyatt, I just reread everything and I think you are on the right track with the spring.
Did you measure the spring wire diameters and are they the same?
If so, and the O.D. Of the coil is the same, the heat treating is likely close to the same.
If everything is equal, you can grind the new spring off longer than the old one and you will have higher compression squeezing it into the same space.
Just my thoughts on it.

 

[Wyatt Smith]

I will measure the spring as you mentioned and if they don’t want to send me the correct one I may just grind it off.

 

[Ridgewalker]

Another thought. You might try stretching your existing spring out some to increase the compression strength, but I’d make certain I documented the OAL first as a reference. That should increase the strike speed for a while anyway.

 

[JimP]

Another thought. You might try stretching your existing spring out some to increase the compression strength, but I’d make certain I documented the OAL first as a reference. That should increase the strike speed for a while anyway.

That's the old BB gun fix

 

[Wyatt Smith]

I’ve done that with magazine springs before.