Factory Rifle Ammo Feedback?

[mark-hunter]

as I understand it, they are the actual manufacturers of the fabled Lapua match .22lr ammo,

This I dont know.
But Geco has solid reputation, performance and resoanble price ans is part of Ruag Concern (together with RWS, Norma, Rottweill, Geco)

 

[Hunter-Habib]

375 H&H - norma swift a frame 300 grain (Africa), 300 grain soft point PPU (europe)
30-06, 300 win mag norma oryx 180 grain (All round, europe)
30-06 - Nosler ballistic tip, 180 grain, for roe deer
9.3x62 - old stock of ammo selleir bellot soft point 286 grain, (new lot, to be avoided doesnt cycle the bolt in semi), next will be Geco teilmaintel, or Sako hammerhead

Very interesting, Mark. Could you please tell me a little bit more about these cycling issues? I have seen Sellier & Bellot 12 gauge shells fail to cycle in a Remington Model 11-87.

 

[Hunter-Habib]

Here's the last Remington core-lokt that I ever intend to shoot at a game animal. Notice that the primer is dented but the bullet is still in the casing.

Remington marketers might be able to brag on the 100% weight retention, though...

BTW - I understand probabilities. But if I have a second cartridge failure from a second manufacturer, I still won't feel like it's my fault. If I have a second cartridge failure from Remington, it would be my fault...

How old was the round ?

 

[mark-hunter]

Could you please tell me a little bit more about these cycling issues?

Very simple. I had few brand new boxes of sellier bellot 9.3x62, for my semiauto benelli argo.
Purpose: training with higher recoil rifle, before going to safari

On range:
I chamber the round.
Fired.
Bolt cycles.
But not sufficiently to strip next cartridge from magazine to chamber.
RIfle goes "Click". It cocks firing pin, but cartridge remains in magazine, and appears to make short bolt travel.
I cycle the bolt manually, and chambered the round.
Fired.
Bolt cycles and again does not strip the round from mag, again.

So, I spent all S&B ammo, what I had on the range, by manually cycling the bolt. 2 boxes. Failure to fully cycle and chamber the round each time without exemption. All of them had to be chambered by manual bolt operation

Any other ammo, cycles without problem, normal semi auto operation. With any other ammo rifle performs well.

 

[crs]

I have shot factory Remington and Winchester ammo in pistols, rifles, and shotguns for 70 years without ammo problems-- from .22 through .458. IMHO, Most such problems are from dirty or otherwise malfunctioning guns, which was diagnosed and corrected.
Now days, all my pistol and shotgun ammo is factory but most rifle ammo is hand loaded.

The only bullets that I load for DG are North Fork or Woodleigh. Period.
Never a failure and only a few bullets recovered (after destroying the shoulders of a buff or such.) or after shooting through the head and lodging in the body of an Ele.

In my experience, most name brand ammo is good enough for the intended use. Placing the bullet in the right place is the responsibility of the hunter.

 

[Tango]

@Longwalker
Generally you are correct, especially for soft steel jacket that sticks to magnet, and for performance of spce.
I will just add that the latest lot of S&B in 9.3x62 did not cycle the bolt in my semi auto rifle, while other cartridges tested did cycle. (sako Hamerhead, and geco).

Another point - they do have wide variety of ammo, classic and premium bullets as you have noted. And they are very attractive in price.
However biggest lack in their production is actually lack of 375 H&H, or 458 win mag which are most common DG calibers, and have their own piece of market and consumers.

Standby on the 375 H&H loads.....

 

[Tango]

An additional comment about Czech Sellier & Bellot. They are an old well established company and make a wide variety of ammunition especially for hard to find cartridges. I have used S&B with no problems at all, with the exception of bullets. Their standard cup and core bullets that are made "in house" have a plated steel jacket with soft lead cores. Their "soft point cutting edge" and regular soft point bullets are a fragmenting bullet design. They work OK for smaller or lightly built game at moderate velocities, but will break up on heavy bone or thick skin, especially when driven fast. Fortunately S&B offer a wide variety of bullets and if you choose their premium offerings they are good for hunting all game that the cartridge is suitable for.

Everything Sellier & Bellot sells in the US Market, for the last 5-6+ years, uses the standard copper-zinc jacket material. The projectiles with Fe/iron content are no longer sold in the US Market and are generally being phased-out world-wide. The SP bullets are very much a traditional design and while they don't upset into perfect marketing images, typically shedding their jackets, they are absolute killers, especially in 243 Win, 6.5 CM, 6.5x55 and 7x57. I've shot them (6.5 CM 140gr and 7x57 173gr) on everything from kudu, oryx and wildebeest down to impala on 3 safaris. Animals go down hard when hit in the right place, very much like people above mention with Core-Lokt bullets etc. It's that old combination of moderate velocity and "tough-enough" bullet that works so well.

 

[Opposite Pole]

This I dont know.
But Geco has solid reputation, performance and resoanble price ans is part of Ruag Concern (together with RWS, Norma, Rottweill, Geco)

Beretta bought Ruag’s ammo business recently.

 

[Rubberhead]

How old was the round ?

No very old - no more than a couple of years.

 

[Opposite Pole]

While I mostly handload I do occasionally use factory ammo if I find a good deal on it, have no components or in a firearm I only shoot little.

I’m quite satisfied with Brenneke 375HH 270gr non DG load. Quite accurate and I’m yet to recover a projectile.
I’ve used Norma’s 9.3x74R 285gr Oryx wjth good success in my double and now load the same projectile for it, albeit with a bit more velocity.

I’ve used RWS Evo in 9.3x74R and RWS HIT (non lead) in 8x57JRS. Both consistent and effective.

In the past I’ve used Federal in 308 and 375 and it usually shot well or at least ok. I found the blue box Powershock to be consistently less consistent.

Australian Outback 308 Sierra Gameking load shot very well in my rifles and a bit faster than the Federal equivalent. It worked great on Fallow and Reds.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I've taken all my elk over the years with 225gr. Core Lokts in my .338WM. All one shot kills up to 150 yards. I used 180gr. Barnes TTSXs in my .300WM on my PG hunt this past June. ALL one shot kills up to 350 yards, with even some less than perfect shots. EXCELLENT bullet and may not go back to Core Lokts, but BOTH bullets have worked well for me. With the ammo shortage issues right now, trying to find ANY factory ammo in .338WM at a reasonable price is like looking for a unicorn. Time to find time to start reloading the .338s.

@CoElkHunter
I haven't bought any factory ammo in the last 15 years. Even my son's 308 has never had a factory round in it.
Bob.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Here's the last Remington core-lokt that I ever intend to shoot at a game animal. Notice that the primer is dented but the bullet is still in the casing.

Remington marketers might be able to brag on the 100% weight retention, though...

BTW - I understand probabilities. But if I have a second cartridge failure from a second manufacturer, I still won't feel like it's my fault. If I have a second cartridge failure from Remington, it would be my fault...

View attachment 482041

@ Rubberhead
Looks like a firing pin failure. Very faint pin indent.
Just my thoughts.
Bob

 

[shootist~]

@ Rubberhead
Looks like a firing pin failure. Very faint pin indent.
Just my thoughts.
Bob

I'm thinking that's a possible as well, but it's hard to tell based on the picture.

 

[Hunter-Habib]

No very old - no more than a couple of years.

How Disconcerting. I had a bunch of Federal 7x57mm Mauser “Hi Shok” 175Gr cartridges recently misfire too. By comparison, I have Winchester Super X 175Gr cartridges manufactured in 1983, which have never failed to fire.

 

[Rubberhead]

@ Rubberhead
Looks like a firing pin failure. Very faint pin indent.
Just my thoughts.
Bob

Thanks Bob. I think it's just how the picture makes it look, though. In hand it looks just like all other other brass that went off properly. Plus, the gun has been shot many dozens of times before and since including one just after that without a problem. - keeping my fingers crossed.

 

[C.W. Richter]

All over the map. Some rifles fire relatively cheap factory Rem or Win ammo 5-shots touching and in other guns, a 2" group would be a good day. This was the case with my 1st .300 WM as a teen, so I got into handloading (as a box of 20 inaccurates were $35 at the time-I could make 100 1-holers for $20.) Some of the more premium ammo (fusion, barnes vor-tek, Hdy GMX, Nos Varmint, etc.) will shoot 0.5" groups out of the box. I prefer handloading for a variety of reasons (even more accurate, cheaper, you generally make 50 or more rounds at a time and do so only once every few years with most hunting rifles,) but with the components (and factory ammo) conundrum that's been in-play for years now, an even better case for handloading. IF you buy a couple pounds of your favorite powder, a 1000 pack of primers, etc. when it's available, you'll have Zero issues! Unless you're shooting competition, going on a sheep hunt (including Aoudads), or you're hunting a ranch or farm with LONG fields (>400 yds,) you can use any ammo that shoots relatively well (with the proper weight bullet for intended game) and skip the latest plastic-tipped whatever....Nos PTs (and even older-style lead-tipped BTSPs like Sierras have penned more toe tags here than all others combined! Once had an issue w/ Norma Wby ammo (overpressure, cartridge getting stuck, flames...) Contacted Wby and they said send us that (old) lot of ammo that shouldn't be out there (and they replaced it with new, FOC!) Atascadero, CA at the time.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Thanks Bob. I think it's just how the picture makes it look, though. In hand it looks just like all other other brass that went off properly. Plus, the gun has been shot many dozens of times before and since including one just after that without a problem. - keeping my fingers crossed.

@Rubberhead
A mate bought 100 factory rounds of white box Winchester 223. He took them back for a refund after the first box gave 15 failure to fires in a box of 20. He has never had a problem with any other brand or had loads, just that particular batch of Winchester.

 

[CoElkHunter]

@CoElkHunter
I haven't bought any factory ammo in the last 15 years. Even my son's 308 has never had a factory round in it.
Bob.

Bob,
I'll mail you some .243 and .308 Core Lokts in a fruitcake for Christmas! You can try them on scrub bulls when you get a chance.
CEH

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Bob,
I'll mail you some .243 and .308 Core Lokts in a fruitcake for Christmas! You can try them on scrub bulls when you get a chance.
CEH

@CoElkHunter
Save your postage and eat the fruit cake my friend. I dot have and never will have a 243 and I have enough components including primers to load over 1,000 rounds of 308. That should keep my son going a little while.

 

[Novice Huntress]

@Novice Huntress and others.
I hear of this woke policy and woke government but forgive this humble colonial Australian but what the bloody hell is woke policy and woke government.
Bob

You are at least the second contributor mentioning Geco--as I understand it, they are the actual manufacturers of the fabled Lapua match .22lr ammo, and THAT IS SAYING SOMETHING! Would love to be able to try some of their centerfire offerings....

Hi guys, thanks for the further updates, I'm sure there will be many more factory users out there, Steve with regards to GECO, I'm sure fieldsports nation have done a video with their lead free and some other manufacturers? I'll see if I can find it?