Explaining hunting in africa

[Capebuffalo]

I've had similar experiences from "domestic" hunters and even from employees of the provincial department of Fish and Game in Alberta when she made the comment that "Oh, you're one of those hunters!" I was in there office to apply for my land owners Mule Deer tag as I was skunked on all my draw applications.
To which I told her, sit down and listen for a couple of minutes and you might learn something.
I pointed out to her that I had hunted in Africa (Namibia) for 10 days accompanied by my wife.

Scenario Africa
That all meals and accommodations were included, hospitality was phenomenal.
Eight PG animals were taken, 2 Kudu, 2 warthogs, Blue Widebeest, Red Hartebeest, Impala. All taken in low fence concessions spot and stalk.
Myself and my hunting partner were the only 2 hunters on the concession, area of over 50,000 acres.
The hunt was followed by a 20 day guided tour for the four of us (hunters and wives) through Namibia (Namibi desert, Swapomund, Damaraland, Etosho Park, Caprivi (sleeping on a houseboat in the Popo River with the hippos all about), traveling through Botswana (Chobe National Park) and ending in Victoria Falls (it makes Niagara look like a leaky faucet).
Flights were Calgary to Heathrowe, Johannesburg, Windhoek and return Victoria Falls, Johannesburg, Heathrowe, Calgary.
All in it cost for myself and wife for approx 30 days including all meals, accommodations, beverages, and airfare and the experience of a lifetime, 22K Can, probably 18K USD. And we got to see a fantastic, beautiful and mesmerizing part of the world and had a chance to meet some truly fascinating people. Not just a hunt but a vacation as well.

Scenario at Home
So consider hunting domestically assuming that you do get drawn for a tag,
Application fee, $8.00 per application, regardless of the number of applications. Then if you do get drawn it"s another $30.00. But you may not get drawn for up to 12 years depending on you preferred draw zone.

Getting into confrontations with trespassers on your own property, (A far to common problem, even on your own deeded land).
Priceless and maybe dangerous.

Now for 30 days for two people at 3 meals per day at $30.00 each. $1800.00

Driving your $50,000 F150, Ram or Silverado at $150.00 per day for 30 days. $4500.00

Taking time off from work, even if self employed.
Variable.

Beverages?
Again Variable.

Having to abandon the hunt to address issues at home (can't do that when you're 7000 miles from home)
Variable

And this is the big one.
Chance of finding and harvesting a good whitetail, mule deer, moose or elk with all the completion from other hunters either with permission or not. 0-2%.
I can't define the hunt at home as a real hunt

After my lecture to the employee in question, and I should say that some of her coworkers joined her to listen, she did admit that she had no idea about the case for hunting Africa and she apologized for her snobby remark.

Ignorance is bliss and there are some very blissful people out there.

Hi Neil

If I may ask, which outfitter did you use in Namibia and where did you hunt there? I ask because I plan something for me and my son in Namibia as well for later this year....

Hope to hear from you.

Michael

 

[Stormy Kromer]

OP here. Thanks all for the support.

I am not looking for other people's approval who don't understand hunting in Africa. I was wondering if anyone else had the same experience.

I shouldn't have said that I tell them that my response is GTH. I've never told anyone that in my life (I maybe should have, but I haven't!). I just keep quiet.

I don't tell people I've been hunting in Africa, unless they ask.

One good friend of mine doesn't understand hunting in Africa, he calls it a canned hunt. At the same time, he hunts deer and bear in Canada with a real time trail camera from a heated stand on private land.....

He also hunts mule deer on a private ranch in a western state. Spot and stalk from a pickup....but hunting a concession in Africa is like shooting fish in a barrell. I've done both. I will go on record as saying that hunting trophy animals in Africa is just as bit as difficult (or more) than hunting big game on private land in North America.

I've been on some hard hunts in North America that I enjoyed very much. Several horseback elk hunts in Wyoming, a backpack hunt in Idaho, waterfowl in Saskatchewan, deer & bear in Minnesota, caribou and wolf in Alaska. I've enjoyed every one of them very much and don't want to compare any of them as being harder, more challenging or more rewarding. I am glad I added Africa to the list and don't discount it in the least.

Thanks all for you help in helping me plan and prepare. Good hunting to all of you.

 

[Hunter-Habib]

Tell them to go and educate themselves about what hunting in Africa is really like before acting like illiterate horse's asses.

We hunters are our own worst enemies. Always bitching about and trying to act more self righteous than each other. No wonder the antis always keep getting increasingly emboldened to attack us these days.

 

[Hunt anything]

Years ago I was in a small church group, I missed a couple of meetings and one of the ladies in our group asked where I’d been. I told her , Mozambique. She made some off hand remark and I asked her what she did for conservation. Of course it was nothing. I broke out the pictures of us handing out buffalo meat and the smiles of the kids and families receiving it, then the pictures of all of the snares and spears that had been confiscated and how the only reason they were out of action was due to us evil hunters money pumped into the area. She always asks me now when’s my next trip. She actually sent some money to an anti poaching program in the Coutada. You have to know your audience and get a feel of their thought on hunting in general, you can sway them at least to be neutral unless they are of the peta type you just walk away.

 

[buck wild]

In all honesty around this small town people are my surprised if you haven’t been to hunt Africa.

That's cuz you live with the "rich" in the hill country J/K- well kinda.....

 

[Hunt anything]

I understand the OP but if we don’t stand up and defend all legal hunting we are doomed as hunters. I don‘t hunt with hounds but I will defend anyone to do it if legal to the grave. No one else is going to step up to the plate for us and after a generation we will be looking back and saying to our grandkids telling them about when we actually saw the animals in the wild and they can only see them in a zoo or documentary. Don’t get over heated when trying to persuade some people just use facts and logic and remain calm. If things go sideways just walk away.

 

[John Wasmuth]

That's cuz you live with the "rich" in the hill country J/K- well kinda.....

Lol don’t I wish!!!

 

[cknwax]

When I get something like that from someone I just ask them if they have ever been to Africa. When they say no, I simply tell them we can talk more when they have.

 

[375Fox]

I understand the OP but if we don’t stand up and defend all legal hunting we are doomed as hunters. I don‘t hunt with hounds but I will defend anyone to do it if legal to the grave. No one else is going to step up to the plate for us and after a generation we will be looking back and saying to our grandkids telling them about when we actually saw the animals in the wild and they can only see them in a zoo or documentary. Don’t get over heated when trying to persuade some people just use facts and logic and remain calm. If things go sideways just walk away.

I agree with this to an extent, but I see a lot of commercial farming practices developed in the last 30 years being defended as hunting. Hunting with hounds is a tradition several hundred years old. Defending commercial farming as hunting (color variants, CBL, unnaturally large trophies) reinforces a lot of the beliefs stated at start of this thread. Quote from start “Did you let them out of pen before you shot them?” The further this gets distanced from hunting the better.

 

[Philip Glass]

Hello friends.

I am a very low key guy. I live on my farm and keep to myself for the most part. I hunt a lot. Have a few elk, deer, pronghorn and a caribou on the wall. I'm not a big score keeper, I just enjoy seeing memories of my hunt.

My closest town is under 1.000 people. I went to coffee the other day and someone said " I heard you went to AFRIACA" "Must be nice!!!".

I didn't respond. Then the next guy says " Did you let them get out of the pen before you shot them?!.

I just left. I didn't want to explain to them that hunting in Africa isn't all that much different than hunting private land in the US or Canada. I've been on private land Elk, Antelope and Mule deer hunts in the US. Africa was harder, much harder. Thorns, brush, low visibility, much, much more wary game.

Hell the easiest hunts I've had have been in the US on private land or next to federal land (next to Jackson Hole WY) The moose and caribou I have hunted weren't near as weary as ANY animal I hunted in Africa.

I like my fellow hunters very much, but how do you respond when someone tells you Africa isn't a real "hunt" ? Not that it matters to me, but I'm interested if anyone else has faced the same judgement.

I don't need to defend myself from these fellow hunters. Just interested if anyone else has been judged for hunting in Africa and how do you handle them? GTH is my current response.

I’ll hammer their asses. No I wouldn’t let it go. This usually comes from the guys who don’t kill much of anything and have had few experiences outside their immediate area. Most of these that I know typically go on an expensive camping trip each year and call it an elk hunt.
Ignorance!

 

[Hunt anything]

I agree with this to an extent, but I see a lot of commercial farming practices developed in the last 30 years being defended as hunting. Hunting with hounds is a tradition several hundred years old. Defending commercial farming as hunting (color variants, CBL, unnaturally large trophies) reinforces a lot of the beliefs stated at start of this thread. Quote from start “Did you let them out of pen before you shot them?” The further this gets distanced from hunting the better.

Looking back I shouldn’t have said all legal hunting. There is no defense of ““canned” hunting. Put and take is for fish not game.

 

[Puddle]

It's a little weird.. I'll mention I'm leaving for / just returned from somewhere in Africa and my circle of acquaintances respond as if I visited another planet. It's hard for them to wrap their brain around it.

Talk about chasing Water Buffalo in North Australia and they'll drag you into their house and pull out the photo album of their last cruise around the island. I have to make excuses to get out of there.

 

[typilotguy]

Oh, the nay-sayers...I'm not a betting man, but I'd be willing to lay money down on the fact that most of those that think hunting concessions, particularly those in RSA, are "canned hunts" have never been.

It is a discussion that I have had at many banquets and conventions, mostly by the "holier-than-thou" crowd that only want to hunt this way or that. They tend to have a few things in common, in my observation.

1) They've never been; and therefore
2) They have no idea about the thousands (or tens- or hundreds- of thousands) of hectares that are fenced,
3) Those same individuals have no qualms about shooting pen-raised pheasants or quail, or catching trout that were just thrown from the hatchery truck
4) They also tend to don the latest technologically advanced camo, precision rifles, drop-compensating scopes, etc. et. al.

In my experience, I can say that unless somebody is adamant in their stances, some light can be shed by being honest and taking the time to dispel some of these preconceived notions. In a couple instances, the nay-sayers even did an about face, and subsequently booked hunts.

There will always be some that will stand firm in their stance, but I've found many can "come around" when you take the time to draw parallels to what they tend to know, hunting in the US.

As far as the above list goes, I am certainly not condemning or condoning any of that. Again, they are just some commonalities that I have noticed in speaking to literal hundreds of people at shows, conventions, and the like, particularly those that at first seem to be adamately opposed to hunting over in Africa.

 

[WillMFerguson]

OP here. Thanks all for the support.

I am not looking for other people's approval who don't understand hunting in Africa. I was wondering if anyone else had the same experience.

I shouldn't have said that I tell them that my response is GTH. I've never told anyone that in my life (I maybe should have, but I haven't!). I just keep quiet.

I don't tell people I've been hunting in Africa, unless they ask.

One good friend of mine doesn't understand hunting in Africa, he calls it a canned hunt. At the same time, he hunts deer and bear in Canada with a real time trail camera from a heated stand on private land.....

He also hunts mule deer on a private ranch in a western state. Spot and stalk from a pickup....but hunting a concession in Africa is like shooting fish in a barrell. I've done both. I will go on record as saying that hunting trophy animals in Africa is just as bit as difficult (or more) than hunting big game on private land in North America.

I've been on some hard hunts in North America that I enjoyed very much. Several horseback elk hunts in Wyoming, a backpack hunt in Idaho, waterfowl in Saskatchewan, deer & bear in Minnesota, caribou and wolf in Alaska. I've enjoyed every one of them very much and don't want to compare any of them as being harder, more challenging or more rewarding. I am glad I added Africa to the list and don't discount it in the least.

Thanks all for you help in helping me plan and prepare. Good hunting to all of you.

Virtually identical experience with my hunting partner. He said my bison hunt last year was "like going out to the pasture and shooting a cow." Well, it wasn't, but try convincing him otherwise. Edit: for the record, he didn't go on the hunt.

As for Africa, he says those hunts are "stupid" and "easy". He also refuses to leave the U.S. and said Africa was "full of coloreds." Mind you, this guy is enrolled native, so not sure about the racial bias there. I said, "white people live there, too." I'll spare you his disparaging response.

Solution? I am finding a different hunting partner for any hunt outside of the U.S. I should probably get a new hunting partner altogether, knowing that my hunting partner, who is almost a foot shorter and about 75lbs lighter said, "yeah, bro, if we end up in a jam, you're on your own. There's no way I'm packing you out whole....I'll have to quarter you up."

For what it's worth, Sue Tidwell's book changed my mom's opinion for the better, on African safaris.

 

[Hunt anything]

Virtually identical experience with my hunting partner. He said my bison hunt last year was "like going out to the pasture and shooting a cow." Well, it wasn't, but try convincing him otherwise. Edit: for the record, he didn't go on the hunt.

As for Africa, he says those hunts are "stupid" and "easy". He also refuses to leave the U.S. and said Africa was "full of coloreds." Mind you, this guy is enrolled native, so not sure about the racial bias there. I said, "white people live there, too." I'll spare you his disparaging response.

Solution? I am finding a different hunting partner for any hunt outside of the U.S. I should probably get a new hunting partner altogether, knowing that my hunting partner, who is almost a foot shorter and about 75lbs lighter said, "yeah, bro, if we end up in a jam, you're on your own. There's no way I'm packing you out whole....I'll have to quarter you up."

For what it's worth, Sue Tidwell's book changed my mom's opinion for the better, on African safaris.

I would challenge your partner to have followed me around for 3 days up and down STEEP mountains looking for a 20 pound klipspringer or search for a specific sized impala for 2 days on 30,000 acres. Got the klipspringer but ended up leaving the impala for another time. The klipspringer hunt was one of the hardest hunts I’ve had including the Rocky Mountains and some damned steep mountains in California (mule deer and black tailed deer)

 

[WillMFerguson]

I would challenge your partner to have followed me around for 3 days up and down STEEP mountains looking for a 20 pound klipspringer or search for a specific sized impala for 2 days on 30,000 acres. Got the klipspringer but ended up leaving the impala for another time. The klipspringer hunt was one of the hardest hunts I’ve had including the Rocky Mountains and some damned steep mountains in California (mule deer and black tailed deer)

Some people, like my hunting partner, are bound and determined to be ignorant.

 

[fourfive8]

OP here. Thanks all for the support.

I am not looking for other people's approval who don't understand hunting in Africa. I was wondering if anyone else had the same experience.

I shouldn't have said that I tell them that my response is GTH. I've never told anyone that in my life (I maybe should have, but I haven't!). I just keep quiet.

I don't tell people I've been hunting in Africa, unless they ask.

One good friend of mine doesn't understand hunting in Africa, he calls it a canned hunt. At the same time, he hunts deer and bear in Canada with a real time trail camera from a heated stand on private land.....

He also hunts mule deer on a private ranch in a western state. Spot and stalk from a pickup....but hunting a concession in Africa is like shooting fish in a barrell. I've done both. I will go on record as saying that hunting trophy animals in Africa is just as bit as difficult (or more) than hunting big game on private land in North America.

I've been on some hard hunts in North America that I enjoyed very much. Several horseback elk hunts in Wyoming, a backpack hunt in Idaho, waterfowl in Saskatchewan, deer & bear in Minnesota, caribou and wolf in Alaska. I've enjoyed every one of them very much and don't want to compare any of them as being harder, more challenging or more rewarding. I am glad I added Africa to the list and don't discount it in the least.

Thanks all for you help in helping me plan and prepare. Good hunting to all of you.

I understand perfectly! Calling most hunting in Africa “canned” by someone who sits in a tree stand (with bow or gun- matters little) over a bait barrel where the bears have names with estimated skull sizes because they’ve been on the trail cam so often…. says it all.

 

[AZDAVE]

If you are talking to other hunters, many are misinform or jealous of your adventure, so they take a petty approach in their comments. These guys I just say grab a cup of coffee and come sit down and I will explain the difference in hunting Africa vs here and how conservation works in both. About 60% of these guys go away better educated. I have help 4 of this group to plan and go on their first safari. 40% are to narrow minded to chang their beliefs.
I find that most are Good folks that appreciate a simple discussion and that sometimes expands their world. Maybe 1 in 50 get very rude and insulting. They get to meet my evil twin and get a logical letdown of hard facts that really narrows their world.

The folks that don't hunt I just explain all the animals, birds, smells, sounds and show pictures of my experiences. Explain conservation practices in Africa vs here. Most smile and ask about my adventurous in the years to come, asking to see pictures of the people, animals,, country side.

Now the antis. Most are narrow minded in an almost zealot fashion. Them I normally just say that you look through a different lenses at life than I do so let's agree to disagree and go our separate ways. The ones that won't do that and keep hammering I explain that all things are renewable resources and explain how everyone alive is responsible for the death of things in order to live. There are several models to use in this discussion I usually use how the blood from cows butchered at the big plants is collected and refined into chemicals that are used in hydraulic fluid and processing rubber for tires. Then a logical walk down the logistic chain from farms to grocery stores for it all. Ie the circle of life. A few take it as a educational experience and don't bother me again. S
Most just walk away shaking their heads. A few keep being a jerk. Now my evil twin really comes out and I smile and ask them if, a zebra or impala or a warthog etc is their favorite. Then just tell them that because they wouldnt just leave me alone on my next trip going to shoot one for them, then turn and walk away. In 2018 my giraffe was partly shot for that reason.


I do find that if we don't take the time to educate some folks we run the risk of having what we do being jacked up by the uneducated.

 

[BRICKBURN]

We are a minority and so are the Anti zealots. It is very easy to vilify hunting.

I doubt many have respect for a rabid zealot propounding their views on either side of the equation.

The wide middle ground are the folks we will need to have tolerate, if not support our future hunting endeavours. "Hunters" are half way there and with some education might actually be supportive. The future might be worth the effort.

 

[Neil Molendyk]

Hi Neil

If I may ask, which outfitter did you use in Namibia and where did you hunt there? I ask because I plan something for me and my son in Namibia as well for later this year....

Hope to hear from you.

Michael

The safari company/cattle ranch was called Klawerberg, but a few years after the hunt he sold his entire operation as he was well into his senior years. It was about 45 miles south and east of Windhoek and I didn't get to see all of his property but what I saw was wonderful. If I might, our runner up choice at the time of our booking was Mike and Sophie Kibble of Progress Hunting and Photo Safari. I would encourage you to check them out. They came across as very sincere folks and I believe that they are just a bit north of Klawerbergs and a bit further east of Windhoek. I have met them both a couple of times since our Namibian hunt and they always had time to talk.

Good luck and happy hunting