Explain this: 270 wins the poll

[FlyGuy]

A 270 with the right bullet is adequate for anything from Duiker to Eland.
The 7x64 is basically a ballistic twin.

 

[grand veneur]

A 270 with the right bullet is adequate for anything from Duiker to Eland.
The 7x64 is basically a ballistic twin.

Not quite, although the cartridge has the same purpose. Its concept is different from the cartridge 270 Winchester. The cartridge 7x64 Brenneke was designed for hunting heavier European game, especially in wooded areas where such game species are hunted in Europe. The classic version of this cartridge was designed with a heavy 175gr TIG bullet and accordingly a shorter barrel twist rate. By the way, the recoil ist a little bit stronger.

 

[404Pruitt]

I have a Belgium made Browning BAR 270 Win that I use for all of my deer hunting. Rather it’s hunting with hounds or still hunting, it’s my go to and I don’t see that changing. Out of all the ammo I’ve tried in it, it likes the cheap blue box 130gr Federals. I wait until I see them on sale online and by 10-20 boxes at a time. For the availability of ammo, and the shoot ability of the 270 Win I don’t think you can beat it for deer hunting. We also have an exploding black bear population where we hunt and I feel more than confident with my 270 if one gives me the opportunity. The majority of people in our hunting club either uses a 25-06 or a 270. Both do the job well.

 

[roklok]

Not much explaining needed, the .270 is a highly effective and popular cartridge and has been for a century.

 

[One Day...]

Another thought: did you notice? the top 5 are direct variations of the .30/06...

What I also find interesting is that the five top-ranked cartridges (and the tenth) all share the same design trade-off: usable power vs. usable trajectory vs. usable shootability, based on the proven performance of the .30/06 in two World Wars.

1- The .270 Win is a necked down .30/06. You could call it the .27/06.​

2 - The .308 Win is a modern rendition of the .30/06. You could call it the .30/52 (1952).​

3 - The .30/06 is the American baseline reference of "do anything anywhere in anyone's hands".​

4 - The 7mm-08 is a necked down .308. You could almost call it the .28/06 (in the shorter .308 brass).​

5 - The .243 Win is a necked down .308. You could almost call it the .24/06 (in the shorter .308 brass).​

10 - The .280 AI is an Ackley improved .280 Rem, itself a necked down .30/06. You could call it the .28/06.​

A very strong case could be made for the .30/06 to be the American entry into the "universal" cartridge competition. But it was/is not perfect. For many applications it was/is over powered, and to many it was/is recoiling too much.

Everything flowed from there.

-- The .270 Win trades "excess" .30/06 power on PG for flatter trajectory and lower recoil.​

​

-- The .308 Win (7.62x51) trades "excess" .30/06 (7.62x63) power on PG - and enemy combatant - for lower recoil and lower bulk (shorter brass).​

​

-- The 7 mm-08 capitalizes on the .308 shorter brass and trades "excess" power on PG for flatter trajectory and lower recoil.​

​

-- The .243 Win goes all in on the .308 shorter brass and trade of "excess" power on PG for laser-flat trajectory and virtually no recoil.​

And everything else non-magnum since then has either tinkered on the edges (e.g. the .280 Rem is a .28/06, the .35 Whelen is a .35/06, the aptly named .25/06 is a hidden gem deserving a lot more popularity) or has duplicated a .30/06-based round, with shorter fatter brass, sometimes pushed to the ridiculously impracticable: try to chamber from the magazine a round of Winchester Super Short Magnum (WSSM), or even Remington Short Action Ultra Magnum (SAUM)...

As to the two magnum entries:

7- 7 mm Rem Mag​

8- .300 Win Mag​

they both trace back to the .300 H&H Mag which triggered the same type of necking up and down on the basic hull, from .244 to .458.

In the end, and this does NOT surprise me -- and I will take it as validation of my general skepticism about "new" cartridges -- only the currently ubiquitous 6.5 Creedmoor and the 6.5 PRC make the top 10 list, and I would strongly argue that they are mostly modern marketing gimmicks chasing the 6.5x55...

An American poll

No doubt this is an American poll, and Europeans would likely see things differently. Or the same, but from a slightly different starting point.

I suspect that a European poll would likely show a similar genealogy with the 7.92 Mauser (8x57 a.k.a. 8 mm Mauser) and derived cartridges 7x64, 9.3x62, 6.5x57, 6.5x55, although - interestingly - the 7x57 has all but vanished from Europe (for example, Blaser does not make a R8 barrel for it...) after the 7x64 replaced it as the "universal" European, or at least Continental, caliber.

When I bought my .270 Win in the 1980's in France, you only saw them in the Alps, with an equal distribution of .243 Win with those who did not have opportunities to hunt Red Stag or plains' Sanglier (wild boar), and the rest was 7x64, with also an equal distribution of 9.3x62 for aptly named running boar hunts. I would speculate that the bolt action market in France then was 40% 7x64, 30% 9.3x62, 10% .270 Win, 10% .243 Win, 10% everything else.

 

[VertigoBE]

Another thought: did you notice? the top 5 are direct variations of the .30/06...

What I also find interesting is that the five top-ranked cartridges (and the tenth) all share the same design trade-off: usable power vs. usable trajectory vs. usable shootability, based on the proven performance of the .30/06 in two World Wars.

1- The .270 Win is a necked down .30/06. You could call it the .27/06.​

2 - The .308 Win is a modern rendition of the .30/06. You could call it the .30/52 (1952).​

3 - The .30/06 is the American baseline reference of "do anything anywhere in anyone's hands".​

4 - The 7mm-08 is a necked down .308. You could almost call it the .28/06 (in the shorter .308 brass).​

5 - The .243 Win is a necked down .308. You could almost call it the .24/06 (in the shorter .308 brass).​

10 - The .280 AI is an Ackley improved .280 Rem, itself a necked down .30/06. You could call it the .28/06.​

A very strong case could be made for the .30/06 to be the American entry into the "universal" cartridge competition. But it was/is not perfect. For many applications it was/is over powered, and to many it was/is recoiling too much.

Everything flowed from there.

-- The .270 Win trades "excess" .30/06 power on PG for flatter trajectory and lower recoil.​

​

-- The .308 Win (7.62x51) trades "excess" .30/06 (7.62x63) power on PG - and enemy combatant - for lower recoil and lower bulk (shorter brass).​

​

-- The 7 mm-08 capitalizes on the .308 shorter brass and trades "excess" power on PG for flatter trajectory and lower recoil.​

​

-- The .243 Win goes all in on the .308 shorter brass and trade of "excess" power on PG for laser-flat trajectory and virtually no recoil.​

And everything else non-magnum since then has either tinkered on the edges (e.g. the .280 Rem is a .28/06, the .35 Whelen is a .35/06, the aptly named .25/06 is a hidden gem deserving a lot more popularity) or has duplicated a .30/06-based round, with shorter fatter brass, sometimes pushed to the ridiculously impracticable: try to chamber from the magazine a round of Winchester Super Short Magnum (WSSM), or even Remington Short Action Ultra Magnum (SAUM)...

As to the two magnum entries:

7- 7 mm Rem Mag​

8- .300 Win Mag​

they both trace back to the .300 H&H Mag which triggered the same type of necking up and down on the basic hull, from .244 to .458.

In the end, and this does NOT surprise me -- and I will take it as validation of my general skepticism about "new" cartridges -- only the currently ubiquitous 6.5 Creedmoor and the 6.5 PRC make the top 10 list, and I would strongly argue that they are mostly modern marketing gimmicks chasing the 6.5x55...

An American poll

No doubt this is an American poll, and Europeans would likely see things differently. Or the same, but from a slightly different starting point.

I suspect that a European poll would likely show a similar genealogy with the 7.92 Mauser (8x57 a.k.a. 8 mm Mauser) and derived cartridges 7x64, 9.3x62, 6.5x57, 6.5x55, although - interestingly - the 7x57 has all but vanished from Europe (for example, Blaser does not make a R8 barrel for it...) after the 7x64 replaced it as the "universal" European, or at least Continental, caliber.

When I bought my .270 Win in the 1980's in France, you only saw them in the Alps, with an equal distribution of .243 Win with those who did not have opportunities to hunt Red Stag or plains' Sanglier (wild boar), and the rest was 7x64, with also an equal distribution of 9.3x62 for aptly named running boar hunts. I would speculate that the bolt action market in France then was 40% 7x64, 30% 9.3x62, 10% .270 Win, 10% .243 Win, 10% everything else.

From what I can tell, in new (plastic) rifles, the most common sold caliber in Europe is now probably the .308WIN, followed by .270WM, 30-06, 300WM, 9.3x62 (in no particular order)

 

[Rocked and Loaded]

From what I can tell, in new (plastic) rifles, the most common sold caliber in Europe is now probably the .308WIN, followed by .270WM, 30-06, 300WM, 9.3x62 (in no particular order)

Interesting about the 270wm. I don’t think it’s very popular here.

 

[Creigh]

Another thought: did you notice? the top 5 are direct variations of the .30/06...

What I also find interesting is that the five top-ranked cartridges (and the tenth) all share the same design trade-off: usable power vs. usable trajectory vs. usable shootability, based on the proven performance of the .30/06 in two World Wars.

1- The .270 Win is a necked down .30/06. You could call it the .27/06.​

2 - The .308 Win is a modern rendition of the .30/06. You could call it the .30/52 (1952).​

3 - The .30/06 is the American baseline reference of "do anything anywhere in anyone's hands".​

4 - The 7mm-08 is a necked down .308. You could almost call it the .28/06 (in the shorter .308 brass).​

5 - The .243 Win is a necked down .308. You could almost call it the .24/06 (in the shorter .308 brass).​

10 - The .280 AI is an Ackley improved .280 Rem, itself a necked down .30/06. You could call it the .28/06.​

A very strong case could be made for the .30/06 to be the American entry into the "universal" cartridge competition. But it was/is not perfect. For many applications it was/is over powered, and to many it was/is recoiling too much.

Everything flowed from there.

-- The .270 Win trades "excess" .30/06 power on PG for flatter trajectory and lower recoil.​

​

-- The .308 Win (7.62x51) trades "excess" .30/06 (7.62x63) power on PG - and enemy combatant - for lower recoil and lower bulk (shorter brass).​

​

-- The 7 mm-08 capitalizes on the .308 shorter brass and trades "excess" power on PG for flatter trajectory and lower recoil.​

​

-- The .243 Win goes all in on the .308 shorter brass and trade of "excess" power on PG for laser-flat trajectory and virtually no recoil.​

And everything else non-magnum since then has either tinkered on the edges (e.g. the .280 Rem is a .28/06, the .35 Whelen is a .35/06, the aptly named .25/06 is a hidden gem deserving a lot more popularity) or has duplicated a .30/06-based round, with shorter fatter brass, sometimes pushed to the ridiculously impracticable: try to chamber from the magazine a round of Winchester Super Short Magnum (WSSM), or even Remington Short Action Ultra Magnum (SAUM)...

As to the two magnum entries:

7- 7 mm Rem Mag​

8- .300 Win Mag​

they both trace back to the .300 H&H Mag which triggered the same type of necking up and down on the basic hull, from .244 to .458.

In the end, and this does NOT surprise me -- and I will take it as validation of my general skepticism about "new" cartridges -- only the currently ubiquitous 6.5 Creedmoor and the 6.5 PRC make the top 10 list, and I would strongly argue that they are mostly modern marketing gimmicks chasing the 6.5x55...

An American poll

No doubt this is an American poll, and Europeans would likely see things differently. Or the same, but from a slightly different starting point.

I suspect that a European poll would likely show a similar genealogy with the 7.92 Mauser (8x57 a.k.a. 8 mm Mauser) and derived cartridges 7x64, 9.3x62, 6.5x57, 6.5x55, although - interestingly - the 7x57 has all but vanished from Europe (for example, Blaser does not make a R8 barrel for it...) after the 7x64 replaced it as the "universal" European, or at least Continental, caliber.

When I bought my .270 Win in the 1980's in France, you only saw them in the Alps, with an equal distribution of .243 Win with those who did not have opportunities to hunt Red Stag or plains' Sanglier (wild boar), and the rest was 7x64, with also an equal distribution of 9.3x62 for aptly named running boar hunts. I would speculate that the bolt action market in France then was 40% 7x64, 30% 9.3x62, 10% .270 Win, 10% .243 Win, 10% everything else.

Interesting stuff here.

An acquaintance of mine is a 7mm nut. Has all the variations, his absolute favorite is the 7×64.

It amazes me that the 270 and 6.5 creed have almost identical numbers. It makes me wonder why the higher twist rate then. Is it really worth it?

 

[pilar]

Not quite, although the cartridge has the same purpose. Its concept is different from the cartridge 270 Winchester. The cartridge 7x64 Brenneke was designed for hunting heavier European game, especially in wooded areas where such game species are hunted in Europe. The classic version of this cartridge was designed with a heavy 175gr TIG bullet and accordingly a shorter barrel twist rate. By the way, the recoil ist a little bit stronger.

7x64 is the European equivalent of a .280 Remington/ 7mm express
Which imo is an underrated cartridge ( .280 Remington) I don’t know why more people don’t use it for plains game ?

 

[One Day...]

From what I can tell, in new (plastic) rifles, the most common sold caliber in Europe is now probably the .308WIN, followed by .270WM, 30-06, 300WM, 9.3x62 (in no particular order)

Yep. In those days in France .30/06 and .308 Win were classified "Category 1: Military Weapon" and it was simply impossible to buy them.

As to the .300 Mag, I remember it as being considered in those days generally as an "African caliber" too powerful for France, and very expensive to feed.

I am surprised that you do not mention the 7x64 in your reply, it really was dominant in the 1980's and 1990's in France, and I would have expected that dominance to continue, as it is a VERY useful caliber due to its ability to use heavier bullets (the perceived Achilles' heel of the .270 Win).

The .280 Rem: Remington's other market mis-read (beside the 6 mm Rem)

The .280 Rem (.28/06) tried in 1957 to replicate in the US the 7x64 european success, and I am not sure that the .270 Win was too solidly anchored in the market that it could not have worked. After all, the .280 was positioned as being able to fire .30/06 class bullets at .270 Win (.27/06) class velocity. However, Remington introduced the .280 Rem in the Model 740 semi-automatic rifle and the Model 760 pump-action rifle. That put the two calibers in two different markets. And to add insult to injury, Remington also initially offered lower pressure, hence lower velocity, ammo (compared to .270 Win) that would function well in these actions. This was another market mis-read, after the 1955 abortive launch of the .244 Rem. And when Remington introduced the 7 mm Rem Mag in 1962, it killed the .280 Rem, notwithstanding the fact that the 7 mm Rem Mag is nothing but a loud .280 Rem, when the .280 Rem fires ammo loaded at the full 60,000 PSI SAAMI spec. Try as they might to rename the .280 Rem the "7mm Express", as they renamed the .244 Rem the 6 mm Rem, the perception damages were done. As they say, "you never get a second chance to make a first impression", and both 6 mm Rem and .280 Rem retain "also ran" status to this day, never mind that technically both 6 mm Rem and .280 Rem are technically better cartridges than the run-away commercial successes .243 Win and .270 Win.

A few years ago I would have said that the .280 Rem is probably a more versatile safari cartridge than the .270 Win with loads in the 140 gr to 165 gr range, but the advances in bullet technology have really changed the paradigm, and I am not thinking about the .270 150 gr slug here, but about the 130 gr. In particular I find the 130 gr TTSX absolutely deadly, all the way to large, tough PG and although I did consider both 7x64 and .280 Rem for my wife PG rifle, the .270 Win won easily: where do you find 7x64 ammo in the US, and where do you find .280 Rem ammo in Africa? Or even the US !?!?

 

[mdwest]

Im surprised 270 polled #1 in a US survey of 800 people and that it carried a full 20% of all votes.. I honestly would have thought 30-06 would have taken the top slot just based on the number of hunters that use it and that it is prolific everywhere from the east coast to the west coast.. where some of the other cartridges on the list are more "western" or "southern" in nature, etc..

but.. that said.. I can certainly see the appeal if we're talking exclusively about US hunters that predominantly are hunting US game.. its soft on the shoulder, ammo is super easy to find and is very reasonably priced with lots and lots of different options on the shelf pretty much anywhere you go.. its capable of taking pretty much everything on the NA continent easily with the exception of big brown bears.. its still got enough velocity at 400 yards to be effective on game, so 99% of the shots taken by 99% of US hunters are covered... and pretty much every US manufacturer of firearms offers multiple models chambered in .270...

Were I not so deeply invested in 308 (my primary deer/pig guns are 308's... my primary PG gun is a 308, etc..etc..).. 270 would probably be the next place I'd land if I were trying to decide what my "good for everything" gun was going to be...

Coincidentally, the most accurate rifle in my safe happens to be a custom 270 that I had built around a shilen match grade barrel several years back.. it will clover leaf 5 shot groups with just about anything you feed it... It is just built heavy and has a particularly long barrel (26"), so its not as practical for hauling out to the deer woods as my compact 308's are..

 

[RETD16]

My favorite all around caliber is 7mm Rem Mag. It can do anything up to Eland (although it might be a little light for Eland). The recoil is definitely manageable. It shoots flat and the 7mm bullets are ballistically awesome!!!

 

[Sideshow]

.300 H&H Magnum does not appear on the list: results invalid.

Lol there’s a lot that doesn’t appear there just Blah Blah…..7x57 not in there either wtf?

 

[pilar]

Lol there’s a lot that doesn’t appear there just Blah Blah…..7x57 not in there either wtf?

Yeah WTH no .264 win mag or 6.5-284 Norma vs the 6.5prc ,308 Norma mag vs 300wm , and the nerve 280 ackly improved over a 28 nosler and 7-08 over 7x57 the nerve of those western USA hunters! We Africanhunting.com should flood the comments section of backfire in protest
The USA should renounce being the best country in the world for not using the metric system ASAP

 

[matt85]

All cartridges are inferior to the 8-bore! I took a vote and all people in the vote agreed.

 

[MS 9x56]

Real rifles start at 35 caliber and go up from there

 

[BryceM]

Funny. I've never owned a .270 or .30-06.

I would guess for most people in the US, a .270 is a good fit. Over 90% of the big-game animals killed in the US each year are whitetail deer. Most of the cartridges on this list are overkill for those. It works out something like : 6 million whitetail deer, 200,000 elk, maybe 150,000 mule deer, 15,000 moose, 80,000 pronghorn, and about 50,000 black bear. There are a handful of wolves, bison, sheep, goats, brown bear, and caribou too.

For people who actually do hunt deer and moose, the .270 has proven to be effective, but maybe the .300s and up do it a bit better. Debatable.

People here talk about easily handling .458 recoil and .470 NE recoil. While I have no doubt some people can shoot those accurately, most people simply can't. From about the 7mm on up, recoil becomes a large enough issue that, on average, any gains coming from added horsepower are overcome by losses in accuracy. I think most people can learn to shoot big stuff well, but most don't bother.

In Africa, it's all different. Kudu, zebra, gemsbok, waterbuck, and eland are simply bigger than most USA hunters are likely to encounter at home. For me, rifles for PG in Africa usually should should start somewhere in the .300 class. Smaller cartridges can work, sure, but there are better choices.

If I was a dedicated whitetail hunter, I'd stick with something in the 6.5mm class.

 

[Alistair]

Honestly, I think it's mostly a convenience thing.

A 270 is probably not 'the best' cartridge for any given situation. There's always a specialist tool that's better for any given shot.

But, the 270 is 'pretty good' for quite a lot of situations, so if you've got one, you're basically sorted for 99% of hunting trips. At least hunting trips for the average US hunter, or the average EU hunter.

I had one in the UK. We had 6 deer species. It was a bit much for muntjac, and maybe a little marginal for big lowland reds. But it worked for all of them perfectly well and I wouldn't have needed a second gun for any of them. Ditto for the US really. A bit much for coyotes, a bit marginal for Elk. But anything in between? Crack on. A one off trip to do either? Keep the ranges shorter, pick your bullet, you're fine.

There's also the mass availability thing. Go hunting, realize you left you fancy hand loads at home, you can nip into any gun shop, pretty much anywhere on earth and get some .270 ammo. It might be your basic 130gr Remington Corelokt or Hornady Interlock, but you'll get some. If you're shooting a 7x64 or a .284win, or a 6.5PRC, let alone stuff like 300H&H... not so much. Even 7mmRemMag or 300WM is a bit of a gamble in some geographies.

Then there's the guns. Any gun shop will likely have a couple 270win guns on the shelf. Cheap ones, expensive ones, second hand or new. There's probably a .270 win you can purchase and chances are you even get a couple options. Any manufacturer releases a new model? They'll probably offer it in .270. .35 Whelen? Good luck.

If you just want something easy, simple, low stress, perfectly capable, it's one of only a few 'real' options. .308win, 30-06, .270win, probably 6.5creedmoor these days. .223 or 243 I guess, but the range of hunting it offers is smaller.

Not that surprising that it got 'the peoples choice' there. Realistically it only had 3 or 4 competitors. They're all boring, but they're all reliable, and one of them is always going to take that prize.

I reckon it might fade a bit in popularity as a lot of the older shooters die off, but realistically... it's super easy and it just works. That's compelling.

 

[Ridge Runner]

The closest I have come to shooting a .270 is a 6.8 SPC using 130 and 140 grain bullets.

Decades ago and still is for me; why get a .270 when I can get a 7mm Rem Mag.

In my youth it was: The basics of the 7mm Rem Mag is better at longer range. A more variety of bullet weights, heavier bullets, etc., when weighing the pros and cons the 7mm Rem Mag was the better choice. The only real con is recoil.

Of course why a 7mm Rem Mag, as back then most local "mom and pop" stores didn't stock 7mm Rem Mag nor 270 ammo. The choice of caliber became the "Do All" 30-06 and 308.

Nowadays it's big box stores, and online shopping, for a slew of variety of caliber ammunition.

It's no surprise that the 270 is probably more popular now than it was 40+ decades ago.

 

[HuntingGold]

I believe all the elk I've killed with the .270 were substantially larger than any of the kudu I've taken. Im quite certain the .270 could proficiently take kudu as well. I'd chose a 150 Nosler partition and not worry about it at all.