Experience & Value Versus Cost

[rookhawk]

You'll need an assitant you know.

I'll do the videography! (Anyone able to quickly teach me how to hold a camera?)

 

[Neale]

Charlie, $10 is a start.

PP, I will be OK for an assistant thanks as I am thinking about asking James to sponsor one of the strippers.
RH, I don't know about film. Maybe that needs to go on another forum.

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

PP, I will be OK for an assistant thanks as I am thinking about asking James to sponsor one of the strippers.

I definitely CANNOT assist you there!

 

[sierraone]

After following the posts on this thread I think there is one solution.
AH, (along with a small contribution from members) should sponsor me to experience and to vet all the offers advertised on this site. I could then give a short summary (rating) of each WRT experience,value and cost. Although the last one I will not have to worry about too much. May take a few years but I am up to the task.
By the way I am willing to do both high fenced and wild Africa

You need a gun bearer also!

 

[CAustin]

Charlie, $10 is a start.

PP, I will be OK for an assistant thanks as I am thinking about asking James to sponsor one of the strippers.
RH, I don't know about film. Maybe that needs to go on another forum.

Don't hold your breath on that stripper sponsorship! I still waiting on the names and contact info for the outfitters that have those at the lodges!

 

[Wheels]

Before I add my two cents to this discussion I'd like to know what it takes to be a "Free Range" or "Wild Africa" hunt. If the concession is managed or improved is it still a "Wild Africa" hunt.

Art,

I used the term "Wild Africa". It can mean different things to different people. Since I used the term, I will try to explain what it means to me. It is land where animals can freely move and not be confined or have their habits changed by a fence they can't cross.(They can move with the rains and the green grass) TMS, Bullet, Ndumo, would be some of the examples here on AH. I have never hunted Save, Bubye, APNR, but I would imagine they would fit that category for me, due to their size. Not sure if anything much smaller would fit that description for me of wild Africa, however.

In my opinion, the concession can have permanent camps, roads cut, anti poaching, if that is what you are considering improvements.

As I mentioned earlier. If an individual is physically and financially able to go on a hunt like this, they should try it at least once.

Nothing against game farms. I have hunted them and thoroughly enjoyed myself. It is just a different experience.

Hope this helps, but it is only my opinion.

 

[lwaters]

Glad to hear, @Red Leg. But in the spirit of empathy, consider that the "consultant" role is probably the most abusive, most often exploiting/victimizing of anybody in the hunting chain of events. I've used one thrice in my hunting career and let me describe what I actually got:

Event 1 - Had a consultant that worked for Cabelas. Advised us to book this amazing all-u-can-shoot KS/MO late season snow goose hunt. Said we'd see millions, shoot hundreds of birds. We saw millions, that's true. We just had a terrible outfit with terrible spreads and in 3 days (left at the 2.5 day mark) 24 birds were shot. Absolutely no vetting of the hunt happened by the "consultant" or "agent" it appears. I chocked it up to bad luck at the time.

Event 2 - I "won" a bear hunt with Bob McConnell, Horseshoe Hills Outfitters. A friend also joined for the hunt. It turns out the outfitter wasn't the outfitter, he was the outfitter, operator, agent, scam artist. While in a decrepit camp government agents arrived in camp due to sanitation violations. (yeah, you have to be a big f-up to have health dept show up in northern Canada!) Rot. Mould. Workers and guides quitting several times while we were there for 5 days due to non-payment of wages. Baits weren't baited so no bears. I got lucky and killed a bear immediately upon arrival. My friend and several others saw no bears whatsoever. The "outfitter" was actually every role in the transaction and was useless.

Event 3 - I booked a cow elk hunt as a freezer filling event with worldwide adventures (who I didn't realize at the time was formerly Cabelas!). Guy that ran it appears in my opinion to be a psychopath. Running elk with a truck. No stalk. No walk. No glass. Just running around Ted Turner's ranch looking for cows that weren't there and chasing elk that all proved to be bulls. Disgusting. No money back from the scam artist "consultants" for illegal/unethical/misrepresented hunt. They claimed 98% success rate but 5 people that week alone had no elk so it was demonstrably false.

At any rate, that is par for the course. I've concluded I must do my own due diligence and there is no middle man I've found that is going to be a value add for me. When I needed representation none was provided. When I wanted a refund no advocate was to be found.

Solution: Found a PH I trust in Africa. I hand him a wad of cash and he meets me months later in Africa. We eat, hunt, drink and be merry. I no longer stress over the problems I had previously as I no longer pay for a middle man to provide a false sense of security.

I'm sure others like yourself have had good luck but I've not. I'm sure there are ethical agents/consultants right here on AH but how does a neophyte find an ethical c'onsultant to help them not get robbed by an unethical operator when indeed, the consultant may be the crook?

My first African hunt I booked through Cabelas. I had a very good hunt in Namibia. One thing I didn't like was the 50% down which you would lose if you didn't go. So that basically forced you to buy trip ins. I went back and hunted with the same outfit but dealt with him . But I did wire some money to him and my bank sent it to a bank in RSA it came back thank God.

 

[LivingTheDream]

Well the moral of the story is figure out what you value and talk with the right agent or outfitter to make that happen. And no matter who you talk to make sure you do your due diligence, you just can't the guy selling the hunts word for it.

 

[BnC 04]

Gotta say this thread is all over the place but some good opinions and thoughts being shared on a wide variety of topics...From Hunting Agents to strippers, think we have the full gamut covered on this one

 

[Royal27]

Gotta say this thread is all over the place but some good opinions and thoughts being shared on a wide variety of topics...From Hunting Agents to strippers, think we have the full gamut covered on this one

As long as the hunting agent doesn't start stripping!!!!

@James Jeffrey - HuntingAgent.com

 

[JamesJ]

@royal 27 I have some moves for a chubby kid.

 

[BnC 04]

As long as the hunting agent doesn't start stripping!!!!

@James Jeffrey - HuntingAgent.com

Indeed....combining the two would deffinately be crossing into a whole new realm and would warrant revisiting the proper tipping subject....

 

[BRICKBURN]

As long as the hunting agent doesn't start stripping!!!!

What happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas.

 

[Dragan N.]

Glad to hear, @Red Leg. But in the spirit of empathy, consider that the "consultant" role is probably the most abusive, most often exploiting/victimizing of anybody in the hunting chain of events. I've used one thrice in my hunting career and let me describe what I actually got:

Event 1 - Had a consultant that worked for Cabelas. Advised us to book this amazing all-u-can-shoot KS/MO late season snow goose hunt. Said we'd see millions, shoot hundreds of birds. We saw millions, that's true. We just had a terrible outfit with terrible spreads and in 3 days (left at the 2.5 day mark) 24 birds were shot. Absolutely no vetting of the hunt happened by the "consultant" or "agent" it appears. I chocked it up to bad luck at the time.

Event 2 - I "won" a bear hunt with Bob McConnell, Horseshoe Hills Outfitters. A friend also joined for the hunt. It turns out the outfitter wasn't the outfitter, he was the outfitter, operator, agent, scam artist. While in a decrepit camp government agents arrived in camp due to sanitation violations. (yeah, you have to be a big f-up to have health dept show up in northern Canada!) Rot. Mould. Workers and guides quitting several times while we were there for 5 days due to non-payment of wages. Baits weren't baited so no bears. I got lucky and killed a bear immediately upon arrival. My friend and several others saw no bears whatsoever. The "outfitter" was actually every role in the transaction and was useless.

Event 3 - I booked a cow elk hunt as a freezer filling event with worldwide adventures (who I didn't realize at the time was formerly Cabelas!). Guy that ran it appears in my opinion to be a psychopath. Running elk with a truck. No stalk. No walk. No glass. Just running around Ted Turner's ranch looking for cows that weren't there and chasing elk that all proved to be bulls. Disgusting. No money back from the scam artist "consultants" for illegal/unethical/misrepresented hunt. They claimed 98% success rate but 5 people that week alone had no elk so it was demonstrably false.

At any rate, that is par for the course. I've concluded I must do my own due diligence and there is no middle man I've found that is going to be a value add for me. When I needed representation none was provided. When I wanted a refund no advocate was to be found.

Solution: Found a PH I trust in Africa. I hand him a wad of cash and he meets me months later in Africa. We eat, hunt, drink and be merry. I no longer stress over the problems I had previously as I no longer pay for a middle man to provide a false sense of security.

I'm sure others like yourself have had good luck but I've not. I'm sure there are ethical agents/consultants right here on AH but how does a neophyte find an ethical consultant to help them not get robbed by an unethical operator when indeed, the consultant may be the crook?

Yeah I agree with you, I think its imperative that people do their own research regardless of whether they are using an agent or not. Some people want to completely outsource this to a third party, enter agent, and this is when problems may arise depending on the integrity or reputation of the agent. Obviously its also important to research and scrutinize the agent you plan on using just as you would the outfitter too.

But when it comes to finding research, reviews etc... on outfitters there has never been a better time than now with the internet and forums like this. Here you can find reports that any past clients can post for any outfitter and you will get the good and the bad. Its not like a testimonial on an outfit's website or magazine ad where they only post the good but not the bad.

 

[thi9elsp]

Now I have this horrible image of Rookhawk videoing James stripping for Neale. Please get that out of my head!!!

 

[Royal27]

Now I have this horrible image of Rookhawk videoing James stripping for Neale. Please get that out of my head!!!

That's a prime example of no value at any cost for having to live through that experience.

 

[rookhawk]

That's a prime example of no value at any cost for having to live through that experience.

You realize a bell will ring :"you guys order pizza?" and then out of the bush comes a booking agent with bad 70s music playing in the background.

 

[Neale]

There are certain limits to the experiences that I am prepared to vet.
What would be more frightening? Walking into the thick stuff not knowing if an angry Buff or a dancing JJ is going to come rushing out.
no offence @James Jeffrey

 

[JamesJ]

@Neale I would be more upset if you were looking forward to it.

 

[LivingTheDream]

I was just thinking can you imagine the contract language around strippers. How do define attractive? Does alcohol to attractive ratio factor into the equation? It sounds like a legal nightmare, unless of course the clients are married as I somehow don't see that one making it to court.