Expected Announcement From U.S. FWS Will Close Elephant Imports From Zimbabwe, Tanzania

[enysse]

I would go just for the pictures and memories....but unless prices go down, no I'll probably won't hunt either the lion or elephant. I'd rather retire at a decent age.

 

[sestoppelman]

Decisions by the US govt like this do not surprise me at all. With the current crooks in charge, I would not be surprised if other uneducated decisions like this get made. The question that I pose to all who read this is.....Do we hunter/conservationists still go and do our part and hunt elephants in Zimbabwe and Tanzania? Should hunters take the high road and do what is right for the species? Without our dollars, the elephants in those countries are not going to be in good shape. I would definitely book a hunt if I could but a true trophy elephant hunt is out of my price range. I plan on hunting a lion or lioness in 2015. If lions get banned from import by then I will still go and experience a lion hunt. I will be disappointed that I will not have the lion in my man cave but the pictures and memories will have to do. If you are from the US and reading this start leaning on your elected officials. Remember the USFWS works for us!

You make an excellent point! It would be the right thing to do, provided that the countries in question dont close hunting of those species, either in support of the ban or in protest of it. As to who works for who? If the top people in these bureacracies are party people or appointees, forget it, a waste of time. Witness Lois Lerner at the IRS! She has been thumbing her nose at US for months and getting away with it. THEY DONT CARE WHAT WE THINK!

 

[sestoppelman]

Optimistic or not we can't give up. Besides, a lot can change. The "me first" folks haven't exactly gotten what they wanted over the last six years and I believe we have a chance to reverse direction, but not if we decide "it's too late."

Not a matter of giving up or not, I haven't decided anything. I of course will vote as I always do. If you dont vote, you have no right to complain. I just submit that I am not optimistic of the result. I hope to be proved wrong in November!
But remember this. You say the me first people havent really gotten what they wanted. They didnt get it in the first 4 years either, but re-elected the idiot in chief anyway didnt they? We as a country are a much more dependent lot now than we used to be. Thanks to the party of Santa Claus!

 

[Warbird782]

You make an excellent point! It would be the right thing to do, provided that the countries in question dont close hunting of those species, either in support of the ban or in protest of it. As to who works for who? If the top people in these bureacracies are party people or appointees, forget it, a waste of time. Witness Lois Lerner at the IRS! She has been thumbing her nose at US for months and getting away with it. THEY DONT CARE WHAT WE THINK!

Exactly Sestoppelman, They don't care what we think. That is because Americans have become nothing but a bunch of sheep grazing lazily in their pasture as these nut cases run wild with no accountability. US citizens need to wake up and hold their elected officials accountable so the elected officials hold appointees accountable. Our broken political system is driving me insane!

I hope that Tanzania and Zimbabwe do not close hunting like Botswana. If so, kiss more than the elephant good bye! At that point you can also welcome super high rates in RSA an Namibia.

 

[Warbird782]

Not a matter of giving up or not, I haven't decided anything. I of course will vote as I always do. If you dont vote, you have no right to complain. I just submit that I am not optimistic of the result. I hope to be proved wrong in November!
But remember this. You say the me first people havent really gotten what they wanted. They didnt get it in the first 4 years either, but re-elected the idiot in chief anyway didnt they? We as a country are a much more dependent lot now than we used to be. Thanks to the party of Santa Claus!

They are still waiting on "Hope and Change". I hope that they are holding their breath as there will be less of them come voting time!

 

[Royal27]

Not a matter of giving up or not, I haven't decided anything. I of course will vote as I always do. If you dont vote, you have no right to complain. I just submit that I am not optimistic of the result. I hope to be proved wrong in November!
But remember this. You say the me first people havent really gotten what they wanted. They didnt get it in the first 4 years either, but re-elected the idiot in chief anyway didnt they? We as a country are a much more dependent lot now than we used to be. Thanks to the party of Santa Claus!

Couldn't agree more.... We're on the same page.

I'll vote too, as always. I really do think that the elections will be better in 2014 as the idiots won't be as likely to vote this time around. They are too lazy.

Now as others have said I think the bigger issue will be the Republicans winning, but not caring about doing what those that put them there want them to do. The establishment is more the problem than the party....

 

[Shakey]

Decisions by the US govt like this do not surprise me at all. With the current crooks in charge, I would not be surprised if other uneducated decisions like this get made. The question that I pose to all who read this is.....Do we hunter/conservationists still go and do our part and hunt elephants in Zimbabwe and Tanzania? Should hunters take the high road and do what is right for the species? Without our dollars, the elephants in those countries are not going to be in good shape. I would definitely book a hunt if I could but a true trophy elephant hunt is out of my price range. I plan on hunting a lion or lioness in 2015. If lions get banned from import by then I will still go and experience a lion hunt. I will be disappointed that I will not have the lion in my man cave but the pictures and memories will have to do. If you are from the US and reading this start leaning on your elected officials. Remember the USFWS works for us!

Friday morning I wired the remaining payments for a 2-part safari in Zimbabwe - Elephant bull and buffalo in Dande for my 14 yr old son, then Hippo in the Omay. Friday afternoon I find out the USFWS has decided, despite a very legal hunt with a proper CITES tag, to reject ivory imports from Zimbabwe. This hunt alone will do more to curb poaching and protect Zimbabwe elephants than any of the decision makers within USFWS have contributed, but now my son, if he's successful, will not be permited to import the ivory. Absolute bullshit.

We plan to continue. I've seen too many changes since my first trip in 2010, and waiting for things to "get better" is a risky decision. They may be able stop the import of the ivory, but they can't stop the import of the memories and photos.

 

[BRICKBURN]

Friday morning I wired the remaining payments for a 2-part safari in Zimbabwe - Elephant bull and buffalo in Dande for my 14 yr old son, then Hippo in the Omay. Friday afternoon I find out the USFWS has decided, despite a very legal hunt with a proper CITES tag, to reject ivory imports from Zimbabwe. This hunt alone will do more to curb poaching and protect Zimbabwe elephants than any of the decision makers within USFWS have contributed, but now my son, if he's successful, will not be permited to import the ivory. Absolute bullshit.

We plan to continue. I've seen too many changes since my first trip in 2010, and waiting for things to "get better" is a risky decision. They may be able stop the import of the ivory, but they can't stop the import of the memories and photos.

Sorry you guys got caught. Pure crap to not provide reasonable notice for people to prepare.

Hope you guys have a good hunt.

I think I am going to start an Elephant trophy Import Business.
Bring them into Canada for future consideration.

 

[James.Grage]

For someone to go and hunt elephant and not think about the "Lacey Act" is not thinking clearly.

If a USA hunter decides to go make sure you check to see if you may or could be charged with a Lacey act violation for taking a Elephant.

The Lacey Act provides that it is unlawful for any person to import, export, transport, sell, receive, acquire, or purchase any fish or wildlife or plant taken, possessed, transported, or sold in violation of any law, treaty, or regulation of the United States or in violation of any Indian tribal law whether in interstate or foreign commerce. Violation of this federal act can result in civil penalties up to $10,000 per each violation or maximum criminal sanctions of $20,000 in fines and/or up to five years imprisonment. All plants or animals taken in violation of the Act are subject to forfeiture as well as all vessels, vehicles, aircraft, and other equipment used to aid in the importing, exporting, transporting, selling, receiving, acquiring, or purchasing of fish or wildlife or plants in a criminal violation of this chapter for which a felony conviction is obtained where the owner should have known of the illegal transgression.

 

[sestoppelman]

For someone to go and hunt elephant and not think about the "Lacey Act" is not thinking clearly.

If a USA hunter decides to go make sure you check to see if you may or could be charged with a Lacey act violation for taking a Elephant.

The Lacey Act provides that it is unlawful for any person to import, export, transport, sell, receive, acquire, or purchase any fish or wildlife or plant taken, possessed, transported, or sold in violation of any law, treaty, or regulation of the United States or in violation of any Indian tribal law whether in interstate or foreign commerce. Violation of this federal act can result in civil penalties up to $10,000 per each violation or maximum criminal sanctions of $20,000 in fines and/or up to five years imprisonment. All plants or animals taken in violation of the Act are subject to forfeiture as well as all vessels, vehicles, aircraft, and other equipment used to aid in the importing, exporting, transporting, selling, receiving, acquiring, or purchasing of fish or wildlife or plants in a criminal violation of this chapter for which a felony conviction is obtained where the owner should have known of the illegal transgression.

James may have a point here, one at least that should be checked into first. It would likely require the use of a lawyer to figure it out. It all depends on the wording and rational, if one could call it that, behind the ban and what it really entails. It might make a difference whether FWS is changing their listing under CITES. Its a real boondoggle and horribly unfortunate for all concerned, especially the elephants.

 

[gxsr-sarge]

Friday morning I wired the remaining payments for a 2-part safari in Zimbabwe - Elephant bull and buffalo in Dande for my 14 yr old son, then Hippo in the Omay. Friday afternoon I find out the USFWS has decided, despite a very legal hunt with a proper CITES tag, to reject ivory imports from Zimbabwe. This hunt alone will do more to curb poaching and protect Zimbabwe elephants than any of the decision makers within USFWS have contributed, but now my son, if he's successful, will not be permited to import the ivory. Absolute bullshit.

We plan to continue. I've seen too many changes since my first trip in 2010, and waiting for things to "get better" is a risky decision. They may be able stop the import of the ivory, but they can't stop the import of the memories and photos.

The time spent with your son is priceless compared to the sticks he'd bring back! I'm hoping to take my 22 year-old son with me next year to Zimbabwe for a tuskless/buffalo/croc hunt.

 

[RogerHeintzman]

There could be more options available to the hunter if the closure continues into the future.

Those who still may go on their hunts for the photos and memories, can enhance them with a set of reproduction tusks. Some are available now but very limited.

I could see manufacturers expanding their line of reproduction tusks to cover a variety of sizes. Just in the last few year, reproduction heads for Rhino, Hippo and Elephant offerings have increased dramatically.

We all know Reproduction fish have been around for decades and is a big business. Reproduction Deer Antlers can be found every where.

The industry will react if the demand exists. Let's hope this does not carry on for years to come or expands to more areas.


"A dream can be relived, again and again in Africa."

 

[enysse]

All depends on how they enforce the Lacey Act???

 

[nobait4me]

Here is the announcement from FWS:

Service Suspends Import of Elephant Trophies from Tanzania and Zimbabwe
The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service today announced a suspension on imports of sport-hunted African elephant trophies taken in Tanzania and Zimbabwe during calendar year 2014. Questionable management practices, a lack of effective law enforcement and weak governance have resulted in uncontrolled poaching and catastrophic population declines of African elephants in Tanzania. In Zimbabwe, available data, though limited, indicate a significant decline in the elephant population. Anecdotal evidence, such as the widely publicized poisoning last year of 300 elephants in Hwange National Park, suggests that Zimbabwe's elephants are also under siege.
Given the current situation on the ground in both Tanzania and Zimbabwe, the Service is unable to make positive findings required under the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species of Wild Fauna and Flora (CITES) and the Endangered Species Act to allow import of elephant trophies from these countries. Additional killing of elephants in these countries, even if legal, is not sustainable and is not currently supporting conservation efforts that contribute towards the recovery of the species.
The decision to suspend the import of sport-hunted trophies from Tanzania and Zimbabwe applies to elephants taken in 2014. The Service will reevaluate this suspension for calendar year 2015 or upon receipt of new information that demonstrates an improved situation for elephants in these countries.
Legal, well-regulated sport hunting, as part of a sound management program, can benefit the conservation of listed species by providing incentives to local communities to conserve the species and by putting much-needed revenue back into conservation. At this time, the Service does not have conservation concerns with African elephant sport hunting in Namibia, South Africa, or Botswana; though it should be noted that Botswana is not currently open to sport hunting.
For more information, please visit Sport-hunted Trophies.

 

[BRICKBURN]

All depends on how they enforce the Lacey Act???

Ok, Help me out here with some clarification guys.

Lacey Act, this is a law that allows the US to prosecute its citizens for breaking the wildlife law in other jurisdictions, correct?

It is legal to hunt Elephant in Zimbabwe and Tanzania. So, what is to prosecute?
USFWS just banned Elephant imports into the USA.


another point.

CITES is a treaty not legislation.

Parties sign this and agree to abide by the restrictions. These restrictions are placed on the trade and movement in various species or their parts between countries.
One party (USA) can not change the treaty unilaterally (up list or down list species). They may advocate for a change at the next "meeting of the parties".

 

[KWALATA SAFARIS]

Ok, Help me out here with some clarification guys.

Lacey Act, this is a law that allows the US to prosecute its citizens for breaking the wildlife law in other jurisdictions, correct?

It is legal to hunt Elephant in Zimbabwe and Tanzania. So, what is to prosecute?
USFWS just banned Elephant imports into the USA.


another point.

CITES is a treaty not legislation.

Parties sign this and agree to abide by the restrictions. These restrictions are placed on the trade and movement in various species or their parts between countries.
One party (USA) can not change the treaty unilaterally (up list or down list species). They may advocate for a change at the next "meeting of the parties".

I would say this is bang on the money Brickburn, the same I can have a US client shoot a brown hyena (with relevant permits) and not export.

My best always

 

[AfricaHunting.com]

Here is a reply from Gavin Shire (USFWS) to an email that was sent to him from one of our members...


Thank you for your email detailing your concerns about our recent announcement regarding sport-hunted trophy import from Tanzania and Zimbabwe.

I fear you have confused this announcement with our previous announcement of a pending commercial ivory ban. These are two separate issues.

In fact, you are quite correct in your assessment of the present-day threat to elephants poaching for the ivory market, predominantly (though by no means exclusively) in Asia.

When we announced a couple of weeks back our intent to ban commercial ivory trade, we emphasized that we would still allow the import of sport-hunted trophies (with a reasonable annual limit of two per hunter). This is because, as you so rightly state, a well-managed hunting program can actually benefit the species.

The key, of course, is the phrase 努ell-managed hunting program? Today's announcement has come about because we have determined that Tanzania and Zimbabwe are failing to manage their hunts and their elephant herds acceptably.

This ban only applies to Tanzania and Zimbabwe. Hunters can still bring in trophies from other countries that allow hunting, such as South Africa, as long as those countries' programs meet our criteria for benefiting the species.

And today's decision is only for 2014. If the two nations make appropriate changes, 2015 could see us reinstate the import allowance.

I think you'll agree that while hunting and conservation can be compatible, we must all endeavor to ensure that they are compatible through effective management.

I'm glad you decided to write to me so I could set the record straight.

Kind regards,

Gavin

Gavin G. Shire
Acting Deputy Chief of Public Affairs
Office of Communication
U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service
4401 N. Fairfax Dr. Rm 323
Arlington, VA 22203

 

[sestoppelman]

This does not address the legality question of an American hunting elephant in Zim or TZ. Only says you cant bring back parts, not whether the Lacey Act would apply somehow.

 

[BRICKBURN]

This does not address the legality question of an American hunting elephant in Zim or TZ. Only says you cant bring back parts, not whether the Lacey Act would apply somehow.

The previous reply from Mr. Shire was informational, not a reply about the Lacey Act.

Why would the Lacey Act apply at all? No law is being broken by hunting Elephant in Zim or TZ.

This is a policy shift in the US to deter Americans from hunting Elephants in those countries.


In the original explanation provided by the USFWS, it states quite clearly that hunting Elephant is still legal.

Suspension of Import of Elephant Hunting Trophies Taken in Tanzania and Zimbabwe in 2014

Questions & Answers
On April 4, 2014, the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service announced a suspension of imports of sport-hunted African elephant trophies taken in Tanzania and Zimbabwe during calendar year 2014.
...........

Sport hunting, as part of a sound management program, can provide benefits to conservation. Yet, given the current situation in Tanzania and what is known of the situation in Zimbabwe for elephants, the Service does not believe that the benefits of sport hunting will be realized. Further, the Service is concerned that additional killing of elephants in both Tanzania and Zimbabwe, even if legal, is not sustainable at this time.

............

 

[sestoppelman]

The previous reply from Mr. Shire was informational, not a reply about the Lacey Act.

Why would the Lacey Act apply at all? No law is being broken by hunting Elephant in Zim or TZ.

This is a policy shift in the US to deter Americans from hunting Elephants in those countries.


In the original explanation provided by the USFWS, it states quite clearly that hunting Elephant is still legal.

I find the info provided somewhat ambiguous. To that end I have sent an email to FWS and asked for clarification and how the Lacey Act or other law may affect hunters per this ban. If I were planning an ele hunt in Zim next year I would want a full understanding of this.