Empty single piece of brass in backpack South Africa

[Don458]

Don’t let this be a deterrent to going to and enjoying an African safari. Just be careful and vigilant and nothing will happen.

The possibility of being brought into a room and threatened or told to pay a fine (Bribe) and not having any recourse or having something made up to get money from you? It just seems not worth the risk. I know it doesn’t happen allot But it happens way too often than it should.

 

[Brent in Az]

In Mexico, they will put you in jail.

 

[Desperatezulu]

To be clear, fired/unloaded cartridge cases are not illegal in carry-on in RSA. But airport security are a law unto themselves, like most other places around the world.
Yes you may get jerked around and I suppose the worst case scenario is you may miss a flight because of this. But you will not be prosecuted/jailed/fined. The item will probably be confiscated if found.
Obviously a live/primed round is different and forbidden on carry-on.

Patience is the antidote to African shakedowns.

 

[leslie hetrick]

to me its a small price to pay(making sure you obey the laws) for getting to hunt in africa.

 

[Nyati]

Happened to a friend of mine at the Kimberley Airport, empties in his carry on.

He just played dumd, as if he didn´t understand quite well what was going on, and did not speak english, so was let go.

 

[Philip Glass]

I wanted to share and experience I had coming home from South Africa. I had placed the empty brass from my eland in my small hydration/snack backpack. My wife stuck that backpack in one of our carry on bags. I didn't even think about it or pay attention it had been in there for over a week.

When they found it on the x-ray the bag checker called the police. I said sorry .. My fault in the US we use them for everything from keychains to bottle openers. "It's a brass tube, chuck it if you have to."

Nope they put me in a room for about 30 minutes wrote numbers down. Bla Bla Bla. I wasn't about to get excited. I told my wife "just leave without me" When they saw I wasn't going pay them a bribe. They gave up and let me go.

They so overplayed their hand. They were treating me like a had a kilo of coke in my bag. The one lady was so over the top I almost laughed.

This happens all the time and is why I recommend not using a hunting day pack for a carry on. For my clients the rule is that if you do so then when packing for return the pack must be emptied completely and shaken out and then have another person do the same. This can result in more than 30 minutes amd a bribe so it is not worth it to chance it.

 

[Philip Glass]

ITs this type of situation which keeps me from going there. And this Administration wouldn’t trade any criminals for me .

Wow. Really? Stupid mistakes by others keeps you from going on the adventure of a lifetime?
Follow my posts and my advice (I advise and help many first timers) and plan your safari!
Regards,
Philip

 

[Philip Glass]

I keep my empty brass and put them back in their respective boxes, that way I know if I’m missing any. Good lessons from all these stories.

Yep. Thats a plan!

 

[mikecatt13]

The possibility of being brought into a room and threatened or told to pay a fine (Bribe) and not having any recourse or having something made up to get money from you? It just seems not worth the risk. I know it doesn’t happen allot But it happens way too often than it should.

If you're that worried about it, just rent a gun and ammo from a PH. Dont use your day pack as a carry on, put it in checked luggage. Hire a travel agent and (if offered in that country) a escort service to help with entry once you get there. You can make up a million reasons not to go, but if you read all the news stories about car crashes and crime at home and put the same stock in it, you wouldnt ever leave your house. You can be scared of the very minority statistics and live in fear or you can take reasonable precautions to stay in the majority of statistics and live life to the fullest. Africa travel is not as scary as it sounds once you do your research and get one under your belt

 

[JES Adventures]

I got my lesson in 1991 when leaving Joberg. Flying Lufthansa and I was seated on the plane when the Captain called my name to come to the front. Two cops and a Lufthansa rep escorted me to the tarmac where my luggage was set out and had me unpack it since they had detected a loose round. Turned out to be an empty 375 shell casing in my vest pocket. From there forward I check and recheck all of my clothes when packing. No big trouble except delayed takeoff by a few minutes so I got some mad stares when I reboarded the plane.

 

[mikecatt13]

To be clear, fired/unloaded cartridge cases are not illegal in carry-on in RSA. But airport security are a law unto themselves, like most other places around the world.
Yes you may get jerked around and I suppose the worst case scenario is you may miss a flight because of this. But you will not be prosecuted/jailed/fined. The item will probably be confiscated if found.
Obviously a live/primed round is different and forbidden on carry-on.

Patience is the antidote to African shakedowns.

Is it not just easier to "accidentally" drop a few bucks on the floor?

I haven't been to RSA where it seems shakedowns/bribes are more common in joburg than many places. But from a single trip to Namibia, my conclusion on African bribes is that the only difference between corruption in Africa and the US is that they dont try to hide it in Africa, which I found refreshing actually.

Whether its meat to a military checkpoint or "lunch money" to someone else, it seems that it's just the way it works, and makes things run rather smooth. Maybe in other countries like RSA it's a slippery slope or a bad idea, so interested to hear about the subject from those more experienced than I.

 

[Don458]

Wow. Really? Stupid mistakes by others keeps you from going on the adventure of a lifetime?
Follow my posts and my advice (I advise and help many first timers) and plan your safari!
Regards,
Philip

I guess we all have a limit of what is acceptable, god bless and good luck.

 

[buffybr]

On my first hunt in Mozambique I took three 20-round boxes of ammo for my rifle. When I went through customs they told me that I was only allowed to have 40 cartridges, and they would keep one of my cartridge boxes in their safe until I went home. It only took about a half hour to fill out the paperwork and have the correct customs officer take the paperwork and ammo to the safe in the adjacent room.

At the end of my hunt, I went directly to customs and 20 minutes later I walked out of the customs office and airport building with all of my ammo and spent cases.

I put all 60 cartridges and empty cases in my locked box in my checked luggage and proceeded to check my bags for my flight home. Ten minutes later my name was called over the loudspeaker and told to go to baggage check-in. They took me in back where my checked bag, on the conveyor taking it to be loaded on the plane back to the US, had been ex-rayed and they could see three 20-round boxes of ammo in it.

There were two Mozambique police officers there, and I explained to them that I had just got one of the ammo boxes from the Customs office and showed them that paperwork. All of that was above their comprehension, so the two officers walked me back out of the terminal building and back to the customs office.

Another 15-20 minutes discussion between the police and the customs officers, and I was finally allowed to go home with all of my ammo and spent cases.

 

[mikecatt13]

On my first hunt in Mozambique I took three 20-round boxes of ammo for my rifle. When I went through customs they told me that I was only allowed to have 40 cartridges, and they would keep one of my cartridge boxes in their safe until I went home. It only took about a half hour to fill out the paperwork and have the correct customs officer take the paperwork and ammo to the safe in the adjacent room.

At the end of my hunt, I went directly to customs and 20 minutes later I walked out of the customs office and airport building with all of my ammo and spent cases.

I put all 60 cartridges and empty cases in my locked box in my checked luggage and proceeded to check my bags for my flight home. Ten minutes later my name was called over the loudspeaker and told to go to baggage check-in. They took me in back where my checked bag, on the conveyor taking it to be loaded on the plane back to the US, had been ex-rayed and they could see three 20-round boxes of ammo in it.

There were two Mozambique police officers there, and I explained to them that I had just got one of the ammo boxes from the Customs office and showed them that paperwork. All of that was above their comprehension, so the two officers walked me back out of the terminal building and back to the customs office.

Another 15-20 minutes discussion between the police and the customs officers, and I was finally allowed to go home with all of my ammo and spent cases.

In my limited experience, I think language barrier is a major reason for things like this and the "supervisor" level officials just know english better, if not the laws as well. More than once in Namibia (and transiting through Ethiopia), the officials would just stare at the paperwork and the rifle (often no where near the serial number) until we pointed to the digits that matched on the papers and gun and off we went once that happened.

 

[Jettech]

Earlier this year my 14 year old son had a spent case he wanted to keep from his first SA animal and they found it. Pulled us aside in line and retrived it from his bag then took my info down and said if it happens again it will be a problem and then released us. Im glad I did not go thru what others have.

 

[Sand Rat]

My wife had a pair of empties in her carryon when we left Cape Town in 2017 from a zebra and black wildebeest she’d killed. She argued with the screener and tried to keep them but was unsuccessful. After he kept them he wanted to ask her about her hunt. All he got was a very cold stare.

 

[mdsalern]

I have had two “Oh, shit” moments with ammunition here in the states. Both about 15 years ago.

The first was after I went through security, I retrieved my belongings and put on my coat. Upon putting my hand in the pocket, I felt my two key rings…and 9 rounds of .380 acp. I had gone to the range and put the hollow points in my pocket. I disposed of them in various trash cans on the way to my gate.

On the second, I had shot a round of sporting clays and had a box of shells left over. When I went to the gate, I did one extra check of my bag and realized I had the box of shells. Still on the unsecured side and not having tried to go through yet, I took them to the TSA agent. He lost his mind and instantly wanted to call the airport police. I made him call his supervisor who asked if I had tried to get through with them. When he was told no, his response was, “Why are you trying to hold him up then? He’s late for his flight.”

I’ve been lucky…

 

[Tbitty]

In my trip to RSA thru Jo-berg, I asked my PH about keeping my spent brass (hired rifle there, did not bring my own) and he said it should be no problem as long as it went in my checked bag. I had no issues, went right through security, we had a 3+ hour wait before our late night flight and I was never called or checked. No questions from Customs on the US side either.

 

[Tbitty]

I have had two “Oh, shit” moments with ammunition here in the states. Both about 15 years ago.

The first was after I went through security, I retrieved my belongings and put on my coat. Upon putting my hand in the pocket, I felt my two key rings…and 9 rounds of .380 acp. I had gone to the range and put the hollow points in my pocket. I disposed of them in various trash cans on the way to my gate.

On the second, I had shot a round of sporting clays and had a box of shells left over. When I went to the gate, I did one extra check of my bag and realized I had the box of shells. Still on the unsecured side and not having tried to go through yet, I took them to the TSA agent. He lost his mind and instantly wanted to call the airport police. I made him call his supervisor who asked if I had tried to get through with them. When he was told no, his response was, “Why are you trying to hold him up then? He’s late for his flight.”

I’ve been lucky…

I've had a couple similar experiences traveling inside the states.

Once I had a few loose 22LR in a jacket pocket that I'd not noticed until after I was through TSA. I just went on about my business as usual and nothing came of it.

Another time I was going fishing and had a small pocket knife I didn't know about in my reel bag that I was carrying on. After checking my main bag, went to TSA and they flagged it. When they searched the bag, they just asked me if I wanted to leave the TSA area and go check my bag (or whatever else), or have them dispose of it. While it was a knife I carried a lot, it was a fairly cheap one and not worth my time to deal with. They kept it and let me continue on.

Both ended up as "no big deal" situations luckily.

 

[mikecatt13]

The possibility of being brought into a room and threatened or told to pay a fine (Bribe) and not having any recourse or having something made up to get money from you? It just seems not worth the risk. I know it doesn’t happen allot But it happens way too often than it should.

As a small business owner, I'd rather be asked to pay a bribe in Africa than deal with almost any part of the government in the US. When you have to fight any battles, even with a small municipality, here it will cost 1000s if not 10,000s no matter how right you are.

In Africa, they may make it seem like they're gonna lock you up for an empty piece of brass that doesnt break a law and hold their hand out for $20 or $50.

In the US, they would do the same but not hold their hand out because they're probably just anti-gun or anti-hunting and are using their "authority" to give you a hard time. If you dont know the laws and be darn sure youre right and cant escalate it, you're in for a longer argument and who knows how far they would take it and the potential costs.

I'll take the former version of corruption every single time. Maybe im just tired of dealing with arrogant govt officials as a small business owner and frustrated at people in general, but I actually appreciate the approach that doesnt hide it