Emirates and alcohol

[Cousin Bongo]

Okay gang, having lived in the UAE for several years, and having had many interactions with the police and Emirate officials there (including having a minor car accident and being stopped multiple times for having an almost expired old style license plate on my car), I am throwing a BS flag on this play. There has to be more to the story and, going by several things mentioned in the article, it seems there is. I’m leaning towards the woman’s words, actions, and attitude getting her into trouble, and also going with her troubles being self-inflicted.
Re: booze - Unless things have changed in the last year or two (my friends still there say it hasn’t) and, depending on the location, the authorities can and do issue personal “liquor licenses” (a license so one can buy booze at the liquor store) and one may buy liquor and beer and consume it at home (but not in public, etc. etc.) and there are bars (almost all of which are attached to hotels). None of the people I associated with ever had a problem and some had interactions with police - who could smell it - after tossing back a few (respect and politeness again). Of course, tossing back a few then going out and causing a problem or being rude and disrespectful will get one into trouble fast, but that applies anywhere. It’s their country and their rules so don’t act stupidly and obey their laws and there won’t be problems.

CB

 

[Red Leg]

Like some others here, I have traveled extensively in the Middle East and transited or stayed in the UAE many times. I guarantee you, there is a lot more to this story than what is written here. And none of that will reflect favorably on the undocumented (and thus illegal) British alien. The UAE exists in one of the worse neighborhoods on the planet. They try to maintain a Muslim culture while also embracing modern technical development. They allow expats to go to bars, have a wonderful bottle of wine with a meal, and frown on their own citizens doing the same - at least in traditional garb. The wonder to me is that have managed this balancing act so effectively over the last few decades. Sure, they have individuals who have supported factions not acting in our - or usually - Israeli interests (two very, very different things). On the other hand, they have bankrolled many US intelligence operations throughout the region. Got to love it when someone with exactly zero experience in the region has all the geopolitical relationships figured out and passes judgement on a whole country and people.

I personally have always been treated with the utmost courtesy and generosity. I first set foot in in Abu Dhabi in 1983 and most recently, last October. I have dealt with businessmen, members of the Royal family, and members of the military. I have poked around odd corners of every Emirate to include Khor Fakkan for my business, the military, or personal exploration. Where else in the world can an American shop for a 5 or 6K rug and have the proprietor say - "take it Home - try it out - if you like, it wire me the funds - if not, bring it back when next out this way."

 

[Foxi]

"This is really hard for spoiled westerners to understand....Dubai / UAE is a country of laws. They aren't guidelines, they are laws. Getting aggressive with law enforcement in a law-and-order country is a very, very stupid thing to do."

Rookhawk,
for some here (in my country) ,I would also like to have some of these laws.

I traveld often through the Arabian world.
Respected the laws and appeared friendly and modest.
From the Bedouins in the deserts to the controlling police and army officers.
I only experienced hospitality.
Foxi

 

[Hank2211]

Reviewing the facts a bit more, it appears she did a few things wrong:

1.) She violated the law by entering UAE with an expired Visa.

2.) She got surly with the police/customs/immigration when told she needed to get on the next plane out of UAE because she was in effect, an illegal entrant to the nation.

3.) She escalated the situation so the police hit her with a drunk and disorderly charge because she was acting irrational while arguing that she shouldn't have to leave their country immediately because she was indeed, an illegal entrant into the UAE.

4.) She admitted to drinking so they were able to associate drinking with her belligerence AND her violation of their Visa requirements so they taught her a lesson.

This is really hard for spoiled westerners to understand....Dubai / UAE is a country of laws. They aren't guidelines, they are laws. Getting aggressive with law enforcement in a law-and-order country is a very, very stupid thing to do.

Rookhawk is right about a "country of laws" but this advice is even more important in countries which are not countries of laws.

Many countries we would characterize as banana republics have at best opaque laws . . . this gives police and other authorities enormous powers, all of which are more or less discretionary. In these circumstances, it's even more important to keep your mouth shut, do as you're told (at least to a point), and recognize that shooting off your mouth will bring you nothing but trouble.

When it comes to alcohol, many, if not most, Muslim countries are not truly "countries of laws" at least not in any pure sense. Yes, many do have laws making possession and consumption of alcohol technically illegal, but as noted by many in this thread, the authorities will generally turn a blind eye to alcohol use by Westerners (and well-connected locals), but the laws will be vigorously enforced when it's convenient or to achieve some other goal.

I have very little sympathy for people - usually, Westerners - who go to other countries, decide local laws or the method of application are dumb, and then feel not only free but obliged to share that opinion with anyone in a uniform. And then express surprise when the results are not uncongenial.

As an aside, things run much the same way in North America. We have all sorts of laws which are selectively enforced. If you get stopped for speeding for example, and you mouth off to the officer (or my favorite, remind him/her you are a taxpayer), he or she will often look for all sorts of infractions that he otherwise would have let go (burnt out backup light?). This is the same in Zimbabwe. Mouth off at a checkpoint and you will be asked for your safety triangle, your flare, your vest, and whatever else you are supposed to have in the vehicle this week.

The rules are simple, and in cases such as this woman's, you can generally trace problems to a breach of the rules. First, you're in their country and you are subject to their laws (the "when in Rome" rule). Secondly, keep your opinions about how others should run their countries to yourself. Thirdly, don't do anything to attract the attention of the authorities if you can avoid it. Lastly, if an interaction with authorities can't be avoided, be polite. This will solve 98% of problems.

 

[johnnyblues]

Yes be polite, congenial, and humble will get you far no matter where your are and in most situations. Being an a-hole rarely helps any situation.

 

[flatwater bill]

Apparently Dubai is not a sanctuary city.....................FWB

 

[Fred Gunner]

The only reason(s) I need not to fly through Dubai:

"However, Dubai officials told The Sun a different story and disputed the dentist’s claim."

“We dispute Dr. Holman’s account of her treatment," an official told The Sun. “She was not turned away because she had a one-visit visa, as she claimed, because European citizens get a 30-day visa upon arrival."

Opps another "official explanation":
Dubai's Attorney General's Office told Fox News in a statement that an investigation into the incident was completed and charges were dropped. The office said it decided to deport Hollman after she attempted to enter the country with an expired visa. (?????WTF happened to European citizens getting a 30-day visa upon arrival???)

and the rest of the story:
Radha Stirling, Dubai’s chief executive, said it is “wholly illegal for any tourist to have any level of alcohol in their blood, even if consumed in flight and provided by Dubai’s own airline. It is illegal to consume alcohol at a bar, a hotel and a restaurant, and if breathalyzed, that person will be jailed."
“It’s illegal to drink alcohol or be intoxicated in public,” the department states. “You can be arrested. Foreigners have been arrested on arrival after becoming intoxicated on incoming aircraft or while in transit.”

 

[wesheltonj]

The only reason(s) I need not to fly through Dubai:

"However, Dubai officials told The Sun a different story and disputed the dentist’s claim."

“We dispute Dr. Holman’s account of her treatment," an official told The Sun. “She was not turned away because she had a one-visit visa, as she claimed, because European citizens get a 30-day visa upon arrival."

Opps another "official explanation":
Dubai's Attorney General's Office told Fox News in a statement that an investigation into the incident was completed and charges were dropped. The office said it decided to deport Hollman after she attempted to enter the country with an expired visa. (?????WTF happened to European citizens getting a 30-day visa upon arrival???)

and the rest of the story:
Radha Stirling, Dubai’s chief executive, said it is “wholly illegal for any tourist to have any level of alcohol in their blood, even if consumed in flight and provided by Dubai’s own airline. It is illegal to consume alcohol at a bar, a hotel and a restaurant, and if breathalyzed, that person will be jailed."
“It’s illegal to drink alcohol or be intoxicated in public,” the department states. “You can be arrested. Foreigners have been arrested on arrival after becoming intoxicated on incoming aircraft or while in transit.”

What happened to her can happen in any country. Try getting crossways with TSA, ICE or Customs here in the USA and see what happens. Is UAE going to enforce their "alcohol laws" on all foreigners, 99.99999% of the time no, they want the passenger traffic (Revenue) in Dubai. Enforce that and Emirates traffic would drop like a rock.

 

[BRICKBURN]

What happened to her can happen in any country. ............

Without a doubt. Many variations on the same theme occur daily around the world.

Head to Alaska through the Coutts border crossing with a handgun (with no Canadian Permit) and see what happens.
The number of handgun "donations" from the clueless is amazing. After their donation, most get to continue their onward journey without Criminal charges for illegal importation of a restricted firearm.

I entered the US at a land crossing with my ATF permit in hand and I made a simple mistake; I brought the wrong shotgun (exact duplicate model, etc). Oops.
When US Customs checked the serial number against the permit I was informed of the error and then informed of all the potential consequences (confiscation, fines, deportation, bans, etc.). Unlike the Muppet in the OP, I was genuinely shocked at the mistake and apologetic. I offered to immediately remove the firearm from the country. I patiently and quietly awaited their decision.
My suggestion was accepted and I literally walked the firearm back into Canada and left it secured with a responsible person and reentered the US, where I thanked the officer for his use of discretion.
(My ATF permits now list every firearm I own. It's the only guard against my own inattention)

 

[Brent in Az]

I don't worry about the laws of those countries, as I will never step foot on Islamic, or Arabic, soil.

 

[Fred Gunner]

I don't worry about the laws of those countries, as I will never step foot on Islamic, or Arabic, soil.

I’m with you my Brother…Unfortunately there seems to be many here who are more than willing to give money to state sponsors of terrorism in exchange for a cheap flight to Africa.

Most seem to find some moral equivalence between Islam and Democracy??

 

[rookhawk]

I’m with you my Brother…Unfortunately there seems to be many here who are more than willing to give money to state sponsors of terrorism in exchange for a cheap flight to Africa.

Most seem to find some moral equivalence between Islam and Democracy??

Because whatever issues you may find with Dubai are vastly less significant than any African nation. Thus, it’s the best layover option in the most lawful, least backward country anywhere in the ME or Africa. (Except Israel)

 

[wesheltonj]

From another site:

"First of all her problem was with immigration, not Emirates. Sadly, you are only hearing one side of the story. She had two passports. One British, which requires no VISA to visit the UAE. This passport has expired, so she cannot travel on it. She also had an Iranian passport, which requires a visa to visit the UAE. She was refused entry, was told to fly back. She got obnoxious, and started demanding they issue her with a 96 hour BUSINESS VISA. They refused, as she is not on a business trip with an invitation! Of course, the British media, only mentioned her expired passport ONCE in their many articles. But, the ONE GLASS OF WINE, was mentioned in every paragraph. Everyone enjoys the free drinks EMIRATES offers on their flights - as well as other airlines of course. But, they did not want to show how stupid this woman was, so being an Arab country, blame it on a glass of wine."

 

[Royal27]

Sometime in the last 30 years or so it seems that Westerners in general have forgotten that they are responsible for their own actions and want to always blame someone else, and not take personal responsibility.

It seems this is another one of those cases.

 

[sierraone]

always

+1

 

[Hank2211]

I’m with you my Brother…Unfortunately there seems to be many here who are more than willing to give money to state sponsors of terrorism in exchange for a cheap flight to Africa.

Most seem to find some moral equivalence between Islam and Democracy??

I tend to agree with you @Fred Gunner, but given that Dubai, as well as many other Arab countries, are allies of the US, and are armed and trained by the US, and the US gives "money to state sponsors of terrorism" . . . it can get a bit confusing.

Even more confusing is that Canada has never supported terrorism anywhere in the world (too polite); Canada has been an ally of the US since before the British left in the 19th Century; Canada and the US jointly support NORAD, etc., etc., etc., yet when Canada is attacked verbally and financially by Saudi Arabia for stating what is not only obvious but what is also stated in the annual US State Department reports on human rights, your government chooses to tacitly support Saudi Arabia by sitting on the sidelines, at best.

 

[rookhawk]

What I don't like is the constant attacks on UAE and the bias both on this forum and elsewhere about how they'd never fly through a Muslim country, step foot in one, etc. etc. It's A.) Bigoted. B.) Hypocritical. C.) Illogical.

If you don't like Sharia law, that's fine. We have it in the States too. Try to buy a car on a Sunday in most states. Try to hunt on a Sunday in States like PA. Try to buy booze on a Sunday in many states. Try to deal with selective enforcement of Marijuana laws while the States are legalizing at the state level something patently illegal per the FDA on a Federal level.

Point being: Everybody's religious laws have something to be frustrated about for others to clamor about. The UAE is an absurdly wealthy, civilized country. They provide fair business dealings, a bustling economy, and the State supports a secular form of Islam that is far, far friendlier to non-Muslims than any of our "moderate" allies.

You can certainly say: " I still find it backwards and I still reject it." Which is a fine position. But be aware that game scout in Africa is using North Korean AKs to protect you and the game, rifles and ruthless training they obtained by a sworn enemy which they have used to murder any dissent in their own countries. They also are state sponsors of witchcraft with full protections of the State as a "valid medical practice" which has led to many atrocities and abuses of adults, children, and wildlife. There is absolutely nothing about UAE that is inferior to any virtue, order, practice, or justice found anywhere in Africa. For those reasons, I find it absurd that people would refuse to layover in first world UAE because its terrible, but would rather stop in say Dar Es Salaam, Cairo, Senegal, Nairobi, Lusaka, Harare, or JoBurg.

Everybody has their problems and every nation is imperfect. Black-balling better-than-average nations on your way to travel to bottom-of-the-barrel nations (as pertains to law and human rights) is hypocrisy and racism. It also annoys the moderate Muslims that are doing a fairly decent job of creating first world countries and value systems in lieu of fundamental Wahabbism and outright hatred for the West.

 

[Brent in Az]

What I don't like is the constant attacks on UAE and the bias both on this forum and elsewhere about how they'd never fly through a Muslim country, step foot in one, etc. etc. It's A.) Bigoted. B.) Hypocritical. C.) Illogical.

If you don't like Sharia law, that's fine. We have it in the States too. Try to buy a car on a Sunday in most states. Try to hunt on a Sunday in States like PA. Try to buy booze on a Sunday in many states. Try to deal with selective enforcement of Marijuana laws while the States are legalizing at the state level something patently illegal per the FDA on a Federal level.

Point being: Everybody's religious laws have something to be frustrated about for others to clamor about. The UAE is an absurdly wealthy, civilized country. They provide fair business dealings, a bustling economy, and the State supports a secular form of Islam that is far, far friendlier to non-Muslims than any of our "moderate" allies.

You can certainly say: " I still find it backwards and I still reject it." Which is a fine position. But be aware that game scout in Africa is using North Korean AKs to protect you and the game, rifles and ruthless training they obtained by a sworn enemy which they have used to murder any dissent in their own countries. They also are state sponsors of witchcraft with full protections of the State as a "valid medical practice" which has led to many atrocities and abuses of adults, children, and wildlife. There is absolutely nothing about UAE that is inferior to any virtue, order, practice, or justice found anywhere in Africa. For those reasons, I find it absurd that people would refuse to layover in first world UAE because its terrible, but would rather stop in say Dar Es Salaam, Cairo, Senegal, Nairobi, Lusaka, Harare, or JoBurg.

Everybody has their problems and every nation is imperfect. Black-balling better-than-average nations on your way to travel to bottom-of-the-barrel nations (as pertains to law and human rights) is hypocrisy and racism. It also annoys the moderate Muslims that are doing a fairly decent job of creating first world countries and value systems in lieu of fundamental Wahabbism and outright hatred for the West.

You forgot to mention how the UAE, and Islamic nations treat women and employees.

Do some research on that, as well as Emirates airlines whistleblowers.

I have not forgotten 9/11, or the wealthy Arabs that helped fund. Terrorism.

Different strokes, for different folks.

 

[rookhawk]

You forgot to mention how the UAE, and Islamic nations treat women and employees.

Do some research on that, as well as Emirates airlines whistleblowers.

I have not forgotten 9/11, or the wealthy Arabs that helped fund. Terrorism.

Different strokes, for different folks.

Fair. Have you forgotten the murders of the farmers in Africa? The extermination of the Matebele by the Shona? The Land seizures in 2001? The current round about to happen in RSA? The killing and consumption of children with albinism by witches in Africa? The poaching? The bribery and corruption? What about the scams by fake churches destroying most of Africa? What about the allowance in Africa and other non-muslim countries like India for the allowance of unique/separate laws for Muslims so there is no equal protection? What about the extermination of the Khoi and San peoples because they were deemed inferior to blacks and less than human?

All have sinned it appears. I have no biases towards one culture over another, but I do stack up and count bodies and atrocities. Judging UAE for the work of 19 saudis and one egyptian flying planes into our buildings seems a leap. You don't need to take near as far of a leap when we provide tourism and sporting activities in Africa because the bad guys are a lot closer to the activities we participate in that continent. I'm okay with it personally. I think the good outweighs the bad. I don't judge all the people or the society for an act of the few. I just don't think its fair to have such a high standard for the UAE and a low standard for Africa thus suggesting we should participate in the economy and travel of one and not the other. Sure Bin Laden's family was in UAE hunting in the desert in the mid-1990s on family holiday so I guess they are guilty by association...except that we rushed a few hundred Bin Laden's out of the USA on 9/13/2001 for their own protection because the USA was pretty big on tolerating the Bin Laden family over here too.

Just my take on the facts. I fight for and against causes and like to get specific, I try not to use blanket rejection of entire races or cultures, especially those that empirically are doing better than us on things like poverty, literacy, entrepreneurship, law enforcement, etc.

 

[Brent in Az]

Fair. Have you forgotten the murders of the farmers in Africa? The extermination of the Matebele by the Shona? The Land seizures in 2001? The current round about to happen in RSA? The killing and consumption of children with albinism by witches in Africa? The poaching? The bribery and corruption? What about the scams by fake churches destroying most of Africa? What about the allowance in Africa and other non-muslim countries like India for the allowance of unique/separate laws for Muslims so there is no equal protection? What about the extermination of the Khoi and San peoples because they were deemed inferior to blacks and less than human?

All have sinned it appears. I have no biases towards one culture over another, but I do stack up and count bodies and atrocities. Judging UAE for the work of 19 saudis and one egyptian flying planes into our buildings seems a leap. You don't need to take near as far of a leap when we provide tourism and sporting activities in Africa because the bad guys are a lot closer to the activities we participate in that continent. I'm okay with it personally. I think the good outweighs the bad. I don't judge all the people or the society for an act of the few. I just don't think its fair to have such a high standard for the UAE and a low standard for Africa thus suggesting we should participate in the economy and travel of one and not the other. Sure Bin Laden's family was in UAE hunting in the desert in the mid-1990s on family holiday so I guess they are guilty by association...except that we rushed a few hundred Bin Laden's out of the USA on 9/13/2001 for their own protection because the USA was pretty big on tolerating the Bin Laden family over here too.

Just my take on the facts. I fight for and against causes and like to get specific, I try not to use blanket rejection of entire races or cultures, especially those that empirically are doing better than us on things like poverty, literacy, entrepreneurship, law enforcement, etc.

I think you are stretching things to far into left field. I won't get into it on this forum, but my beliefs apply to a certain segment of the world, in which I have an extreme dislike for, and that's putting things mildly. Blanket statement, or not, I am very biased, and that won't change in my lifetime.