Elephant Frontal Brain Shot Placement

[VertigoBE]

Yes, VertigoBE using the zygomatic arches to place the front shot is THE reference, however the shot you pictured is not good.

This is not because you miss the concept, this is because your knowledge of anatomy is inaccurate.

The protuberances you use to draw "the broom stick" are not the zygomatic arches but the ridges of the eye sockets. Wrong! The zygomatic arches are lower, where the lower jaw articulates in the skull (see blue arrows). The common designation is "cheekbone".

The proper frontal brain shot here is "lower" than you depicted (see green "broom stick" that you are shooting to break, and green location of the brain).

I do not pretend to be an expert, because I am not, but this would be my shot...

View attachment 453838

Using the zygomatic arches as an external reference gives the proper shooting angle to reach the brain regardless of how the elephant carries its head. If the elephant is looking straight at you, the zygomatic arches are about at eye level. If it is carrying its head high on a threatening or listening posture, the zygomatic arches will appear to be below eye level (as is the case in this picture). If it is charging with its head low, the zygomatic arches will appear to be above eye level.

thanks a lot @One Day... I do not know what to say, all this time I have been taking the wrong reference due not knowing any better...

I was basing myself on the pictures I had found in the thread HUNTING elephant. This is too high according to the zygomatic arches reference, no?

And this one:

I'm a bit confused...

Your reference line does make more sense, as I read that slightly quartering too front brain shots, can be very risky due to a higher possibility hitting the bases of the tusks, which are very hard apparently...

 

[Happy Myles]

The late Volker Grellmann told me on frontal brain shots there is a tenancy to shot high because of the long, backward slope of the forhead plus the upward shot angle.

 

[One Day...]

thanks a lot @One Day... I do not know what to say, all this time I have been taking the wrong reference due not knowing any better...

I was basing myself on the pictures I had found in the thread HUNTING elephant. This is too high according to the zygomatic arches reference, no?
View attachment 453845

And this one:
View attachment 453846

I'm a bit confused...

Your reference line does make more sense, as I read that slightly quartering too front brain shots, can be very risky due to a higher possibility hitting the bases of the tusks, which are very hard apparently...

Yes, in both cases the shot is too high...

You have here a perfect example of my oft repeated lament: there is no competency and peer review requirements to post on the internet ... and there is a lot of perfectly wrong information on the net, including, sadly enough, on AH occasionally.

By the way, both of the AH pics you showed illustrate a point I was making in my previous post, in both cases, the head position locates the zygomatic arches at approximately eye level. My shots would be as shown in blue:

Just in case you would think that I am completely off my rockers, here are two examples given by Kevin "Doctari" Robertson in his book The Perfect Shot II ...

FYI, one of the things Buzz Charlton recommends is "when in doubt, shot low". The idea is that there is nothing of value in an elephant skull above the brain, just honeycomb bone and fluid; and while a 500 gr solid slug from a rifle of sufficient caliber (.45+) and sufficient velocity (2,100 fps+) may stun him momentarily, he will promptly recover and run for the other side of the world. Conversely, should the shot be a bit low and go under the brain, a deep and straight penetrating modern solid has a good chance of breaking the vertebra at the base of the skull.

Another example of erroneous yarn found on the internet, including in this thread, is to avoid hitting the tusks sockets because they are "hard". Baloney! You indeed want to avoid hitting the tusk sockets, not because they are hard, but because such as shot would drill without any problem through the bone and shatter the tusk base inside the socket...

 

[VertigoBE]

Yes, in both cases the shot is too high...

You have here a perfect example of my oft repeated lament: there is no competency and peer review requirements to post on the internet ... and there is a lot of perfectly wrong information on the net, including, sadly enough, on AH occasionally.

By the way, both of the AH pics you showed illustrate a point I was making in my previous post, in both cases, the head position locates the zygomatic arches at approximately eye level. My shots would be as shown in blue:

View attachment 453852

View attachment 453853

Just in case you would think that I am completely of my rockers, here are two examples given by Kevin "Doctari" Robertson in his book The Perfect Shot II ...

View attachment 453854

View attachment 453855

FYI, one of the things Buzz Charlton recommends is "when in doubt, shot low". The idea is that there is nothing of value in an elephant skull above the brain, just honeycomb bone and fluid; and while a 500 gr solid slug from a rifle of sufficient caliber (.45+) and sufficient velocity (2,100 fps+) main stun him momentarily, he will promptly recover and run for the other side of the world. Conversely, should the shot be a bit low and go under the brain, a deep and straight penetrating modern solid has a good chance of breaking the vertebra at the base of the skull.

Thanks again [USER]@One Day…[/USER]

@BRICKBURN and @AfricaHunting.com do you think it might be wise to have the pictures in the original thread modified? Would not be good for an AH reader to go out and try to shoot an elephant on the basis of the info from a thread here, with incorrect info…

 

[Flint]

Yes, VertigoBE using the zygomatic arches to place the front shot is THE reference, however the shot you pictured is not good.

This is not because you miss the concept, this is because your knowledge of anatomy is inaccurate.

The protuberances you use to draw "the broom stick" are not the zygomatic arches but the ridges of the eye sockets. Wrong! The zygomatic arches are lower, where the lower jaw articulates in the skull (see blue arrows). The common designation is "cheekbone".

The proper frontal brain shot here is "lower" than you depicted (see green "broom stick" that you are shooting to break, and green location of the brain).

I do not pretend to be an expert, because I am not, but this would be my shot...

View attachment 453838

Using the zygomatic arches as an external reference gives the proper shooting angle to reach the brain regardless of how the elephant carries its head. If the elephant is looking straight at you, the zygomatic arches are about at eye level. If it is carrying its head high on a threatening or listening posture, the zygomatic arches will appear to be below eye level (as is the case in this picture). If it is charging with its head low, the zygomatic arches will appear to be above eye level.

Very interesting.
Thank you for your contribution.

 

[Flint]

Kevin Robertson's books are fantastic for this, but even Bell's books feature diagrams (not just with a dot, but lines showing the shot angles.) I agree with what has been said of the difficulty to hit this deflated sideways football for the first-timer, and thus had that frontal shot briefly presented (i might owe high BP to that!), and then the "5 gal bucket" heart/lung shot presented when he spun (Son putting another solid high in the back of 1 lung when he bolted away in the shadows of the forest and was found piled up at the nearest watering hole a couple hundred yards away or less. With that frontal shot (or an equally quick side brain in capable hands), he'd have dropped ten feet, straight down (or to one side)! I'd be comfy w/ the side brain shot if not rushed so much, and probably with the frontal at this juncture, once you've looked over many dozens (including scoping several,) but I'd rather prefer having time to execute the best shot possible, taking little chance with DG. Always solids on elephant! This one must've been talking to the buffalo, because for a moment I felt like I owed him a LOT of money (not just the eye-popping stare, but the mock charge and trumpeting before he spun and bolted)!!!

C W Richter.
I am of the opinion that a paid hunt might be too much of a rushed scene.
Limited time. it is said that one shoots elephant with your feet. Miles upon endless miles. All compounding matters. and the professional guide is human as well. And a business man.
Bell says that "if you can count to ten you will be presented with a much better shot you were prepared to take a moment ago" Does one allow yourself that additional ten seconds? Is it always available with a guide in your back pocket? The situation is rather new to most. Is there always the correct presence of mind. Even if the guide cautions to take your time?
Iv'e not been there. Perhaps it is much more simple than I imagine. But i'll go home a happy man. Without an elephant. rather than a wounded one.

And as far as the lung shot goes. Certainly the cheapest insurance available.
Thank you for contributing.

 

[Flint]

Yes, in both cases the shot is too high...

You have here a perfect example of my oft repeated lament: there is no competency and peer review requirements to post on the internet ... and there is a lot of perfectly wrong information on the net, including, sadly enough, on AH occasionally.

By the way, both of the AH pics you showed illustrate a point I was making in my previous post, in both cases, the head position locates the zygomatic arches at approximately eye level. My shots would be as shown in blue:

View attachment 453852

View attachment 453853

Just in case you would think that I am completely off my rockers, here are two examples given by Kevin "Doctari" Robertson in his book The Perfect Shot II ...

View attachment 453854

View attachment 453855

FYI, one of the things Buzz Charlton recommends is "when in doubt, shot low". The idea is that there is nothing of value in an elephant skull above the brain, just honeycomb bone and fluid; and while a 500 gr solid slug from a rifle of sufficient caliber (.45+) and sufficient velocity (2,100 fps+) may stun him momentarily, he will promptly recover and run for the other side of the world. Conversely, should the shot be a bit low and go under the brain, a deep and straight penetrating modern solid has a good chance of breaking the vertebra at the base of the skull.

Another example of erroneous yarn found on the internet, including in this thread, is to avoid hitting the tusks sockets because they are "hard". Baloney! You indeed want to avoid hitting the tusk sockets, not because they are hard, but because such as shot would drill without any problem through the bone and shatter the tusk base inside the socket...

"a good chance of breaking the vertebra at the base of the skull" is of paramount importance!
And. Without hitting a tusk socket is it. As stated. Most probable that a 45 cal solid at 2,100 fps will penetrate to the required location.
Excellent point!

 

[Flint]

Thanks again [USER]@One Day…[/USER]

@BRICKBURN and @AfricaHunting.com do you think it might be wise to have the pictures in the original thread modified? Would not be good for an AH reader to go out and try to shoot an elephant on the basis of the info from a thread here, with incorrect info…

Perfect comment!

 

[Frederik]

Good Post hunters tend to forget that elephants tower over us and we have to shoot upwards and then to the back of the head through the brain.
That Video from Buzz is brilliant proparbly the best video on how to hunt whatever specie I have ever seen.

 

[Flint]

Good Post hunters tend to forget that elephants tower over us and we have to shoot upwards and then to the back of the head through the brain.
That Video from Buzz is brilliant proparbly the best video on how to hunt whatever specie I have ever seen.

So is the rule-of-thumb to shoot low if in doubt very good advice.
Thank you Frederick!
Poets die blink kant. (Polish the shiny side.)

 

[Frederik]

So is the rule-of-thumb to shoot low if in doubt very good advice.
Thank you Frederick!
Poets die blink kant. (Polish the shiny side.)

Hou die lood in die lug! (Keep the lead flying!)

 

[Medicine]

Frontal brain shot on an Elephant bull

• AfricaHunting.com
• Jul 12, 2021
• 2

Caliber .416 Remington Magnum with 400 grain Woodleigh Hydro solid.

My first attempt. I, too, had seen Buzz's video and read all I could. Truthfully, it wasn't that difficult but certainly could have been a case of beginner's luck.

 

[DieJager]

My first attempt. I, too, had seen Buzz's video and read all I could

That seems on par with shooting lower than the pictures from the AH forum. Good educational video.

Watching this thread for good advice

 

[One Day...]

My first attempt. I, too, had seen Buzz's video and read all I could. Truthfully, it wasn't that difficult but certainly could have been a case of beginner's luck.

Yes, a great shot indeed. Maybe technically 1" or 2" high but clearly through the top of the brain, or close enough in any case. Congratulations Medicine, no arguing with success

How far was the shot? Is this camera lens effect or was it on the longish side? It seems that modern elephants are hard to come really close to in the open like that. I had a similar experience... Were you on sticks or off hands? In any case, great gunnery

This also illustrates another point Buzz Charlton makes, which is that using "enough gun" creates a certain safety margin. In one case his video shows a shot that is a bit too high but that still kills the elephant. His comment is something along the lines that the hunter is using a .458 Lott and that with powerful rifles shooting big solids, fast, a slug that comes close enough to the brain will still kill.

 

[DieJager]

Yes, a great shot indeed. Maybe technically 1" or 2" high but clearly through the top of the brain, or close enough in any case. Congratulations Medicine, no arguing with success

How far was the shot? Is this camera lens effect or was it on the longish side? It seems that modern elephants are hard to come really close to in the open like that. I had a similar experience... Were you on sticks or off hands? In any case, great gunnery

This also illustrates another point Buzz Charlton makes, which is that using "enough gun" creates a certain safety margin. In one case his video shows a shot that is a bit too high but that still kills the elephant. His comment is something along the lines that the hunter is using a .458 Lott and that with powerful rifles shooting big solids, fast, a slug that comes close enough to the brain will still kill.

View attachment 453959

So if I am correct you see on the picture just above the green spot the impact, correct?

And so the ideal just would be slightly lower?

I am fascinated by this thread. Is there any literature besides the mentioned video by buzz that you would recommend for studying the best possible shot. I already have the perfect shot by Robertson

 

[Medicine]

How far was the shot? Is this camera lens effect or was it on the longish side? It seems that modern elephants are hard to come really close to in the open like that. I had a similar experience... Were you on sticks or off hands? In any case, great gunnery

Thank you. To answer the questions: it was 27 yards. We were closing in to take a side brain at 25 yards when he heard us and swung face on. I was on sticks. PH was filming with a standard iPhone. Not sure if top of brain or center although I do know no insurance shot was needed or taken.

 

[One Day...]

Correct DieJager

There are a number of websites/books/videos to study the best shot, but, to be very candid, I do not know of any that are better than the Buzz Charlton video and the Kevin "Doctari" Robertson book, and I have a lot of them...

• "Karamojo" W. D. M. Bell has a couple sketches in his book Bell of Africa;
• Craig Boddington discusses the shot while using an elephant skull as a prop in his also very good Boddington on Elephant video;
• there are a few pictures of sawed off elephant skulls here or there in several books from various authors;
• there are a number of pictures of shot elephants showing the bullet entry hole, BUT THESE PICTURES DO NOT SHOW THE POSITION OF THE HEAD WHEN THE SHOT WAS TAKEN, so they are of extremely limited use because the same entry hole could be way too high or way too low in relation to how the elephant head came to rest on the floor, as opposed to when the shot was taken; and, of course,
• there are a few internet threads showing accurate pics (like this thread )...

But also,

• there are a lot of completely fantasy internet threads fed by "internet PH" and "paper experts" whose sole expertise appears to be to copy/paste each others mistakes

Interestingly, the less they know and have actually done, often the more authoritative they are and the better they tell the tales. Buyer beware..........

To make a long story short, if you already have the Buzz Charlton video and the Kevin Robertson book, there is nothing better that I know off out there

 

[VertigoBE]

This has been very enlightening !

 

[One Day...]

HUNTING Elephant

Hunting Elephant Shot Placement Post your questions, comments or pictures relating to hunting shot placement. Hunting Elephant Hunting Elephant

www.africahunting.com

Two of the very useful illustrations posted by Jerome AfricaHunting.com some while back really show a lot.

This first picture shows:

1. the location of the brain cavity low in the back of the skull;
2. the oval shape of the brain cavity viewed from the side (keep in mind that it is also an oval shape when viewed from the front, because the brain shape is 12" long x 6" high x 8" wide for a bull, with ovalized edges on all sides, rather than a true football, and it is placed lengthwise in the skull.
3. how the brain cavity is located just beside the zygomatic arches;
4. how the brain cavity also extends above the zygomatic arches.

The picture really helps understand why using the zygomatic arches as an external reference is useful due to their close proximity to BOTH the brain, and the pivot point of the skull on the cervical vertebra.

It also shows why WHEN THE HEAD IS LEVEL shooting a bit above the zygomatic arches still produces a great killing shot (see Medicine's video), although beware that this is not as true when the elephant has its head turned sharply up or down.

This second picture really helps understand why:

1. any point of reference on the face and/or trunk of the elephant is highly uncertain, because (as shown by the black arrows) the external points of impact on the trunk may be as much as a foot or so apart depending on the head position;
2. using the zygomatic arches as external reference is the best option as their physical location close to the point of pivot of the skull makes their relative position to the brain much more constant;
3. the leeway to shoot a bit over the zygomatic arches when the head is level, disappears as the head is tilted up or down.

So, in truth, this shot placement also likely works, BUT ONLY BECAUSE THE LEVEL HEAD maximizes the height of the brain above the zygomatic arches, which is more the exception than the rule.

For a Pro like Jerome this particularity is likely unconsciously integrated in the shot placement, but for folks of few and far between experience like most of us, and certainly me, it is likely a better and safer habit to acquire, to stick to the zygomatic arches as recommended by Robertson and Charlton's "when in doubt shoot low".

 

[IvW]

Richard Harland