Echa Proposes Restrictions On Lead Use

[curtism1234]

It will not stop with hunting, that is just the most convenient entry point.

Then fight it if it happens. Conspiracy theories should not prevent hunters from being conservationists.

 

[Pheroze]

My only experience with a copper bullet was the Hornady GMX. Yes the pig died. But the exit hole was almost hard to find. I heard the Raptors do the same. The very limited, defined expansion seems to prevent a larger exit hole. This bothers me when I think about something like a bear in the thick forest. I want a bigger exit to blood trail. Where I hunt the forest is very thick. So, I still think lead has a place.

 

[Pheroze]

Copper bullets can be inhumane

The truth about copper bullets versus lead core bullet designs

www.ballisticstudies.com

 

[HuntingGold]

 

[HuntingGold]

The chart above shows a steady increase in breeding pairs of the American Bald eagle over the last 50 years (+/-). I would suggest this correlates strongly with the discontinuance of certain pesticides. In spite of wide use of leaded ammunition, the breeding pops have continued to increase and expand over more territory.

 

[375Fox]

The chart above shows a steady increase in breeding pairs of the American Bald eagle over the last 50 years (+/-). I would suggest this correlates strongly with the discontinuance of certain pesticides. In spite of wide use of leaded ammunition, the breeding pops have continued to increase and expand over more territory.

Using that chart to justify lead bullets makes me angry. I’ve heard the argument here in Pennsylvania before that it’s ok if a couple eagles die from lead poisoning because the game commission has done such a good job of bringing them back. This shouldn’t be an acceptable argument if we want to call ourselves conservationists. Purposely killing one with a well placed bullet is one thing, slowly poisoning one because a person doesn’t want to change the bullets they use on deer is another. There are good non-lead bullet choices and good high weight retention lead bullets that would have really minimal impact.

 

[Tanks]

...I have been a big proponent of banning lead for hunting and fishing for well over a decade. In fact, that is what ultimately drove me to becoming a member of the Sierra Club.... Hunting and 2nd Amendment are 2 very different things, and it blurs the line when organizations like SCI team up with the NRA on non-hunting related suits. That is not where my SCI money should be going imo. But I digress

In regards to Sierra Club while they state they support hunting though in most cases they have been on the anti-hunting side and were instrumental in banning hunting bear with hounds in CA. They are also anti 2nd Amendment.

In regards to SCI's support of NRA, it is hard to hunt without a firearm or ammo. I think SCI understands that.

 

[Tanks]

... There are good non-lead bullet choices and good high weight retention lead bullets that would have really minimal impact.

My SxS hunting shotguns are not proofed for steel and I even reached out to both Grulla and Aya distributors and was told not to use steel shot.

 

[375Fox]

My SxS hunting shotguns are not proofed for steel and I even reached out to both Grulla and Aya distributors and was told not to use steel shot.

I have no issue with lead for a legitimate reason. I’m also actually more concerned with lead rifle bullet fragments than I am shotgun pellets. I’m going to continue using Swift a frames in my 375 H&H because I like the performance best (and has high weight retention). My issue is with persons who buy the absolute cheapest ammo on the shelf because the price is their only consideration. I really think it should be a voluntary change towards non-lead/less lead options as more information becomes available. I’d much rather see hunters choosing to present a good image rather than be in a situation like California where you get told lead is now banned for hunting.

 

[YancyW]

"ECHA's proposal to further restrict the use of lead follows an earlier one covering lead in gunshot for hunting and sports shooting in or around wetlands. The European Commission adopted this restriction under the regulation on Registration, Evaluation, Authorisation and Restriction of Chemicals (REACH) on 25 January 2021. It will apply in all EU countries from 15 February 2023."

From the OP, "further restricts" is the key here. As in they are moving beyond the initial restriction.

 

[375Fox]

Copper bullets can be inhumane

The truth about copper bullets versus lead core bullet designs

www.ballisticstudies.com

No disagreement with this article that lead core bullets will make a larger wound channel. However, their article is focused on a good shot. The article could very easily be written about lead core bullets (not designed to retain mass) being inhumane for a bad shot, because the wound will likely never heal from the huge number of lead fragments and the animal will die after a period of time.

 

[HuntingGold]

Using that chart to justify lead bullets makes me angry. I’ve heard the argument here in Pennsylvania before that it’s ok if a couple eagles die from lead poisoning because the game commission has done such a good job of bringing them back. This shouldn’t be an acceptable argument if we want to call ourselves conservationists. Purposely killing one with a well placed bullet is one thing, slowly poisoning one because a person doesn’t want to change the bullets they use on deer is another. There are good non-lead bullet choices and good high weight retention lead bullets that would have really minimal impact.

Interesting comment. So while the population is increasing at a predictable exponential growth rate, in spite of the past and currant usage rates of lead ammunition, it doesn't support your argument so it infuriates you. Perhaps you should take up another argument.

My background. Bachelor Degree in Wildlife from the (at the time) top rated University in the US for wildlife studies. I then spent the first part of my career as a wildlife biologist, seemingly always around bald eagles, though they were not the focus of my work. The next 23 years of my career was as a game warden dealing with all issues from environmental issues to lead poisoning in waterfowl to poaching of big game. I supervised a large tact of ground larger than a few of our states.

I list the modest overview of my career simply to state that I am not defending lead ammunition as some knucklehead who hasn't a clue, but am saying you'd better have better data to pass legislation to make wholesale changes to hunting regulations. My mind can be changed, as it was on waterfowl AND upland birds, but I'm not there yet with rifle ammunition.

If you wish to get into causes of mortality in bald eagles, poaching is a vastly under reported problem. Powerlines are still killing these birds in large numbers but power companies are doing a better job of retrofitting poles to make them safer. They have done an admirable job but there is still work to be done.

RH

PS. For the last 15 years of my career, a "stuffed eagle" hung in my office.... A beautiful mount but also a graphic reminder of the numbers of bald eagles killed by automobiles each year.

 

[Scott CWO]

In regards to Sierra Club while they state they support hunting though in most cases they have been on the anti-hunting side and were instrumental in banning hunting bear with hounds in CA. They are also anti 2nd Amendment.

In regards to SCI's support of NRA, it is hard to hunt without a firearm or ammo. I think SCI understands that.

Yes, perhaps Curtism1234 wouldn’t belong to the SC if he went to a few Colorado Wildlife Commission meetings and heard their preservationist, not conservationist, dogma and testimony against hunters. The SC of today is not the SC of old. Any true hunter should not belong to the SC or the Center for Biological Diversity (sounds great but not). I get tired of these groups in the USA and groups such as Born Free in Africa being wrongly labeled as conservation organizations instead of preservation organizations.

 

[375Fox]

Interesting comment. So while the population is increasing at a predictable exponential growth rate, in spite of the past and currant usage rates of lead ammunition, it doesn't support your argument so it infuriates you. Perhaps you should take up another argument.

My background. Bachelor Degree in Wildlife from the (at the time) top rated University in the US for wildlife studies. I then spent the first part of my career as a wildlife biologist, seemingly always around bald eagles, though they were not the focus of my work. The next 23 years of my career was as a game warden dealing with all issues from environmental issues to lead poisoning in waterfowl to poaching of big game. I supervised a large tact of ground larger than a few of our states.

I list the modest overview of my career simply to state that I am not defending lead ammunition as some knucklehead who hasn't a clue, but am saying you'd better have better data to pass legislation to make wholesale changes to hunting regulations. My mind can be changed, as it was on waterfowl AND upland birds, but I'm not there yet with rifle ammunition.

If you wish to get into causes of mortality in bald eagles, poaching is a vastly under reported problem. Powerlines are still killing these birds in large numbers but power companies are doing a better job of retrofitting poles to make them safer. They have done an admirable job but there is still work to be done.

RH

PS. For the last 15 years of my career, a "stuffed eagle" hung in my office.... A beautiful mount but also a graphic reminder of the numbers of bald eagles killed by automobiles each year.
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It doesn’t make me angry because it doesn’t support my argument. It makes me angry because it’s not the first time I’ve heard the there are lots of them who cares argument. However, by your experience I doubt this is the argument you are trying to make although I originally interpreted it that way. What makes me angry about The Who cares the population is growing argument argument is poaching you can say is a poacher and illegal, a eagle that dies from lead poisoning can be traced to legal hunting methods and gives antis ammunition to attack us further even if you can show a population is growing in spite of it. What’s also interesting is the people who attack hunting will be many of the same people wanting green energy so badly, but they will never criticize wind turbines for killing birds. If you read my other posts, I would like people to learn more and voluntarily switch to other options, there is a lot of information out there and good alternative options. It would be better if we moved in the right direction ourselves before politicians decide like California.

 

[HuntingGold]

Sir... I hear you. If it makes you sleep a bit easier tonight, quite a bit of the bullets on my bench are lead free. I'm not in favor at this point of making everyone switch.

 

[Shakka]

Maybe I’m being a skeptic but I think that it is just another way of chipping away at gun owners and hunters. What’s next...ingested copper perforates Eagle intestines?

Keep chipping away until there is nothing left

 

[flatwater bill]

375Fox "I don't understand the resistance to stop using lead ammunition for hunting"

375Fox "I'm going to continue using Swift A-frames in my 375 H&H because I like the performance best"

New laws making lead illegal in bullets will likely ban them all..................FWB

 

[mark-hunter]

Question for target rifle shooters:

Have you tried any lead free ammo, for long range target shooting? What type, caliber? And what were the results? Better or worse in accuracy then, for example classic match HPBT bullet?

Same question for target shooting 22lr, lead free?