East Cape Kudu

[WRudman]

Congratulations to Jaco Strauss on an excellent debate. I would like to highlight the matter of DNA speciation. The entire of the African Wildlife is currently under severe revival of subspecies recognising. Modern genetic studies by several academics reveal more and more the wrong of the past pattern of subdividing multiple subspecies. This has been scientifically proven for sable, eland, buffalo, roan and bushbuck where many subspecies has either been scratched or in high dispute. Subdividing and confinement of subspecies create genetic bottle-necks of genetic deterioration of species fitness and strength. The present academic norm is to justify subspecies only if the difference in genetics is significantly great, in most instances greater than 23%, the number of animals carrying the difference must be large enough to insure sustainment, and the difference must be large enough to insure it will not be lost when mixed up with the original animals. Tanzanian sable have shown to differ 18% in genetics between individuals within the same population. Any animal confined and isolated from its origin for extended period of time will eventually enter some minor genetic difference; though the quest if such difference is sustainable under natural parameters? A great many scientific publications on this matter have appeared since about 2008.

Deon Furstenburg
Wildlife Scientist
Geo Wild Consult (Pty) Ltd

Hi Deon Welkom,
EK het jou lank laas gesien, hoe gaan dit?
I don't know if you remember me, we spent some time in a helicopter flying around, counting kudu.
Regards Warren

 

[WRudman]

Jaco,
DNA tests were done a number of years ago on a farm near Grahamstown.The tests proved that the East Cape Kudu was a genuine sub-specie
from the Southern Greater. This is also the same property where I did my PH course and I was invloved with the subject was discussed extensively while we were
there. The whole Rowland Ward / SCI story I cannot comment with confidence, but as far as I can remember, the tests proving the facts were
presented to Rowland Ward to accept it as a sub-specie, which they declined to do. SCI were more open-minded about the story.

But as far as facts go, the DNA tests proved the sub-specie debate.

Best Regards
Marius Goosen

BTW : Just saw the bottom of your post about the maximum lengths on the Kudu recorded? 54" for the Eastern Cape Kudu? When were these stats posted 1960? 56" Bull was taken two years ago on an open farm in Jansenville on a friends farm, just missing the previous record of 57"

East Cape Kudu, taken on my ranch a few years back by Camdeboo Safaris, 57 and a (fraction) inches.

 

[Scott Slough]

I think the worst part of any science is the fact that for every knowledgable "expert" there is another equally knowledgeable "expert" there to contradict him. LOL.

Sorry I am jumping in on this discussion WAY late, but scientific communication/education is a professional interest of mine.

I would disagree! Science isn't based on knowledgeable experts ... it is based upon reproducible, verifiable, falsifiable data within a peer-reviewed environment. Jaco's argument is not a good one because he is an expert. His argument is a good one because 1)ANYONE who has the scientific training and access to the proper equipment can read the same reports ... go to the same places ... collect the same data ... do the same analysis ... and get the same results(reproducible, verifiable, falsifiable data) and 2) because his sources have all undergone significant scientific peer review ... the PhD dissertation was read and approved by 4 or 5 senior scientists with the credentials to understand and guide the research ... the articles published in journals that have editors and reviewers who are experts in the field ... so when a paper is published in a scientific peer-reviewed journal, it isn't just a knowledge expert ... it is the collective expertise of the community. The peer-review process is the LEAST effective of the two criteria as it is subject to the human condition, but it is much more than just two smart people who have different ideas.

PS That is a toad of a kudu that I would shoot anywhere!

 

[Deon Furstenburg]

Hi Deon Welkom,
EK het jou lank laas gesien, hoe gaan dit?
I don't know if you remember me, we spent some time in a helicopter flying around, counting kudu.
Regards Warren

Morning Warren, yes I remember every moment great to hear from you. I'm in own business now, wildlife risk management GEO WILD CONSULT have a sneak at our website www.geowild.co.za. Still travelling and working the entire Country, staying in Krugersdorp.
Kind Regards Deon

 

[VertigoBE]

Could any of the outfitters weigh in on this matter, if there has been any update on this topic?

I have hunted recently a free-range Greater Kudu in Eastern Cape, next to Grahamstown. So I'm wondering if there still is a distinction made for the Eastern Cape Greater Kudu, versus the Southern Greater Kudu? Has SCI/Rowland/other organisation made any recent statements around it?