Drilling or Combo gun as an alternative to a Double for Plains Game?

[Wayne t]

How old are they

View attachment 171306 Here's a picture of one I had. Sold it last year for $2600. It was a Kreighoff Neptune in 16x16 x 8.57JR. Blue book "retail" with the gold and platinum inlays, bulino engraving, true sidelock action, probably around $14,000. But alas, German Gun Collectors are as cheap as they come, elderly dudes that have limited disposable income. Plenty of drillings out there...don't pay retail if you want one!

same here in the UK they really don't hold the money in the bigger calibers at all it's a shame but that's how the market is over here

 

[rookhawk]

Dude! I would have paid you $2750 for it. Can you get it back?!?

@Red Leg we have nearly identical tastes so I would have offered it to you if it was a gun I was proud of. There were several flaws that although safe, were troubling. (Crudely refinished forend, gold fell off barrel band, pinned at head, buggered screws, shallow engraving, replacement top lever screw, rear sight rod was out of timing, claw mounts but no scope, short LOP, metal proud of wood. It was a gun you'd drop $3000 into and it would be worth less than $6000 hard money in the present economy. I try to sell things on this forum I'm proud of and I'd be proud for any member to own. The stuff that is safe but B grade or lower goes to gunbroker or cabelas.

 

[sierraone]

Dude! I would have paid you $2750 for it. Can you get it back?!?

That is funny!

 

[Red Leg]

Ah ha - have had several of those as well. Buggered screws almost always guarantees an issue or two (or lot more). Too often I buy a bargain for $1800 - put $2500 into it - and end up with a lovely little thing worth $2300. A fine madness.

 

[IvW]

IvW

Nice to hear from another drilling user (any pictures?)

Is there any truth in what one reads about 12 bore drillings with a scope being "too heavy" for a long stalk? or is this just pish from people who don't have one

Out of country at the moment will post some pictures when back.

My two are both O/U combination guns, one with 28 inch barrels and one with 25 inch barrels, they are both light and comfortable to carry. The one has a QD Claw scope mount system which is awesome.

I also have a BRNO Side lock S/S shotgun with 24 inch barrels fitted with a front site and rear ghost ring site(a poor mans double if you like), shot many animals with that and Brenneke slugs. Used it for many years as my wounded leopard back-up/follow up gun.

Some scoped drillings can tend to be a bit heavy(German made 28 inch barrel one I can remember) shorter barrel versions are not a problem and actually make them more comfortable to shoot.

 

[Fr8liner]

Sorry to say but the picture you posted is NOT a Cape Gun, but a drilling!

A cape gun is a Side by side rifle shotgun, usually with the shot barrel on the left and the rifle barrel on the right.

Some folks call an Over Under combination rifle shotgun a Cape Gun, and that is not correct either.

I have several combination guns, and two Cape Guns. The cape guns are #1 a top lever H. Berrella, with a 16ga on the left barrel, and a 8X57JR barrel on the right barrel, and is a exposed hammer gun with 24" barrels. #2 The other is a V. Haffner cape gun with a 20ga left barrel and a 58 Berdan carbine barrel on the right . This one has Damascus 28 " barrels and is also fitted with a Jones under lever and is a black powder gun.

Almost all Cape Guns were made in Germany, and were made especially for the Dutch settlers on the Cape Of Good Hope Of South Africa, hence the name "CAPE GUN". Like the Howdah guns these guns were made for a particular purpose for the settlers so they had only to carry one gun when working their cattle.



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The cape guns are my favorite combination gun, and are found in many chamberings

Thank you for that @DUGABOY1
I always thought Cape Gun referred to the style and of course the Cape
Since mine had the reference to the Cape Town and the similar lines I assumed it was such.
So Cape Guns can only be double barrels ?

 

[raimanparoni]

Answering for original question: I have owned my Sauer 3000 drilling (2x12/70 + 7x65R) six years, and its still mystery for me. Because it has so many opinions:
you can shoot rifle barrel with or whitout schneller, with scope or with open sight and when you practice you can shoot rifle barrel one time, then you have to cool it. Otherwise next bullet goes up in my gun.
Also safety is is in the side, and where safety is normally in shotgun is a barrel selector
So you have take lot of time to get familiar with your drilling. Yesterday I was hunting wolfes (didnt get any) and I learn that I can load a schneller and unload it when safety is on. Dont have to open barrels to unload

 

[HWL]

Drillings are heavy.

Not this one,... it`s a .222 Remington, 20/70, 20/70 Krieghoff, old Zeiss 1,5-6x36 on claw mounts.

Weight is 2,78 kg without scope, 3,27 kg with scope.

It accompanied me to Africa two times.

I fired more rounds with this little gun, than with the two others rifles, I had with me.

There is always a baboon, a jakal, a frankolin or even a little warthog you can send a message.

Don´t leave home without it.



HWL

 

[Hank2211]

Not this one,... it`s a .222 Remington, 20/70, 20/70 Krieghoff, old Zeiss 1,5-6x36 on claw mounts.

Weight is 2,78 kg without scope, 3,27 kg with scope.

It accompanied me to Africa two times, and I fired more rounds with this little gun than the two others rifles, I had with me.

Don´t leave home without it.



HWL
View attachment 179991

At that weight, I retract my statement!

 

[HWL]

I have owned my Sauer 3000 drilling (2x12/70 + 7x65R) six years, and its still mystery for me. Because it has so many opinions:
you can shoot rifle barrel with or whitout schneller, with scope or with open sight and when you practice you can shoot rifle barrel one time, then you have to cool it. Otherwise next bullet goes up in my gun.
Also safety is is in the side, and where safety is normally in shotgun is a barrel selector
So you have take lot of time to get familiar with your drilling. Yesterday I was hunting wolfes (didnt get any) and I learn that I can load a schneller and unload it when safety is on. Dont have to open barrels to unload

Having enough brain always is an advantage....



HWL

 

[HWL]

At that weight, I retract my statement!

You are not completely wrong.

This is the other end.

Krieghoff 9,3x74R 12/70, 12/70, with insert barrel, 5,1 kg

When you lift this gun, you feel like you direkt the main artillery of "USS Iowa".


HWL

 

[rookhawk]

Usually, drillings are "awful" shotguns because they are 24" barreled and 9 pounds.

That being said, for not one penny more, you can find 16/16 and either a 8x57jr or a 9.3x72r rifle with a 27" barrel and they can be as light as 7-3/4 pounds. An optimal London best 16 bore is usually 6-1/2 pounds so it's not a heresy level compromise. Such a drilling is an absolute joy and will take game comfortably at under 200 yards on every continent.

 

[HWL]

Be careful now, I'm not German, but am almost elderly with limited disposable income!!!

I am the worst case,... I'm German, elderly and with limited disposable income!!!



HWL

 

[HWL]

Rare item for sale in Germany....

Krieghoff Drilling 12/70, 12/70, 9,3x62..... usually, drillings are made in the less powerfull 9,3x74R, but this one is a full size 9,3x62!

http://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=6216034

HWL

 

[IvW]

Rare item for sale in Germany....

View attachment 182711

Krieghoff Drilling 12/70, 12/70, 9,3x62..... usually, drillings are made in the less powerfull 9,3x74R, but this one is a full size 9,3x62!

http://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=6216034

HWL

View attachment 182716

The 9.3 x 74R is not less powerful than the 9.3 x 62, they are ballistic twins. The 9.3 x 74R is a better option for a combination, drilling or a double.

 

[HWL]

The 9.3 x 74R is not less powerful than the 9.3 x 62, they are ballistic twins. The 9.3 x 74R is a better option for a combination, drilling or a double.

Please have a carefully look into the ballistic tables of RWS....and compare the loads of 9,3x62 and 9,3x74R

https://rws-munition.de/rws-jagd-bereich/rws-jagdmunition/schnell-zum-gesuchten-produkt.html

HWL

 

[IvW]

Please have a carefully look into the ballistic tables of RWS....and compare the loads of 9,3x62 and 9,3x74R

https://rws-munition.de/rws-jagd-bereich/rws-jagdmunition/schnell-zum-gesuchten-produkt.html

HWL

Please do not be blindfolded by only looking at one ammunition supplier.

You can at the same time look at Norma's listings, a couple of feet per second makes no difference when the same bullet is fired. The same goes for hand loading.

No animal you shoot with either, using the same bullet will know the difference under normal hunting conditions.

Statements like you made below are just not correct/accurate and can give the wrong impressions to people not in the know. They deliver exactly the same performance on the front end. Devastating. Both are exceptional African cartridges.

usually, drillings are made in the less powerfull 9,3x74R, but this one is a full size 9,3x62!

 

[HWL]

Please have a carefully look into the ballistic tables of Norma Reloading Manual #2....and compare the loads of 9,3x62 and 9,3x74R

Same situation.... 9,3x62 is loaded to a higher level of performance, in EVERY comparable load... not very much, but higher.

So my statement is correct & accurat in any way.

You are free to ignore these facts... but it sounds stupid to do so, when everyone else can see it too.

I did NOT said anything about the performance in the field....!

But I could...

I hunt with a Krieghoff Drilling in 9,3x74R and a Mauser M98 in 9,3x62 since decades.......


HWL

 

[IvW]

I am looking again at a 12ga/12ga/9.3×74R drilling.

Options for above are then insert barrels 7x57R and 22 Hornet and 9.3x74R.

 

[IvW]

I've seen and owned many drillings that would be excellent choices PROVIDED you can bring all your ammo. (usually 2-9/16" shotgun shells required) Also provided that you have a back up gun.

There are some 8lb 16gaugeX16gauge w/ 8x57JR rifle barrels and/or 9.3x72R rifle barrels. They can be found occasionally in the less typical 27" barrel length that makes them fairly pleasant to shoot and ideal for an "all arounder".

I can't emphasize enough, I would NOT own a traditional cape gun (shotgun on the left, rifle on the right, SxS configuration) for most hunting. I saw a lovely Griffin & Howe awhile back that was a 7x57R under, and a 16 gauge 2.75" over. That configuration would be excellent with buckshot or slug in the top barrel...just avoid the cape guns as they are more trouble than they are worth and they are nearly unsalable.

There are Vierlings out there that are double rifles plus two more. Certainly some vierlings out there that are shotgunXshotgunX.222Xrimfire and similar also. Although VERY rare, a side by side rifle drilling with a shotgun bottom barrel can be found too. (they cost less than an identical double rifle.

The biggest problem I see is that drillings and vierlings are Cuckoo Clock guns. If something fails you, Africa would be the place it would fail you. And when it does fail you, you are totally, totally screwed. The shotgun triggers become a set trigger for the rifle when you move a lever, etc, etc. I would not bank a safari on a german gun of this complexity.

A Krieghoff Optima 12ga/12ga 3"/9.3×74R with a insert barrel 9.3x74R(one soft point one solid) and then either a K95 or Hubertus in 7x65R would be my ultimate PG setup.......the cost is another matter entirely....but we can all dream....