Draw weight and arrow weight for Dangerous bowhunt.

[Stretch]

Actaully Stretch,

At the moment, turkey season in South Dakota cannot come fast enough! Africa is the second rung on the ladder-although I'm preparing. I'm guessing by the end of May I will be totally consumed with the craddle of man. I have five target species in mind, cape bush buck, white/black springbok, red heartebeest, and my buff. If I'm successful, I'll be back after a hippo and croc in 2014. Eventually I would like to take an elephant.....

Nice list. I hope you get every one of them. The best of luck.

 

[iamyourhuckleberry]

Thanks Stretch.

 

[eugeneb]

Hi,

When talking about dangerous game, there is somewhat of a difference i.e. buff vs ele vs leopard, etc. ... which IMO requires somewhat of a different minimum set-up e.g. no need or recommended to shoot a leopard with a "slow" 850grain arrow, which is better suited for buff (I'll share some of my experiences on Aus buff)

I hunted some Aus Water Buffalo (which weighs around 800-1000 kg ... and some can grow to 1200kg) ... they are thick skinned and boned ... my setup was 70lbs @ 32" DL with an 850 grain @ 220fps arrow total weight (tipped with a German Kinetic 210 grain broadhead) ... I shot 3 buff ... 1) almost frontal 18yards; 2) broadside @ 48 yards ... on the crease 1/3 up the body = passthru; 3) big calf steep quartering away at 43 yards ... had to contend with a few ribs closing on me due to quartering away = arrow obliterated the opposite shoulder and was hangin on the flecthes

Some comments: (which is in line with Dr. Ed Ashby)

- go for arrow weight and focus on momentum not kinetic energy re penetration;
- perfect arrow flight;
- FOC (not sure what mine was, but think 15.x%) does make a difference = after reading the Ashby reports, I have been experimenting with FOC the past 2 years e.g. think in the Ashby reports a 650grain eFOC arrow out penetrates a 800 grain "normal" FOC arrow;
- thin diameter arrow ... I simply used off-the shelf Easton FMJ DG that comes in at I think 17 gpi ... .250 spine ... they are also smooth alu on the outside which I believes helps also i.e. when they get wet they "glide" nicely;
- very 2 blade sharp bh's (German Kinetics shaves and cuts anything it touches out of the box);
- the broadhead must be strong, in other words not curl or brake when it hits big bone;
- Ed Ashby also promotes single bevel bh's specifically for bone encounter ... the simple explanation is that it rotates when entering bone, which splits the bone opposed to cutting ... this typically allows less friction for the arrow to pass thru (I prefer the double bevel German Kinetics);
- shot placement on these big critters ... make the 1st shot count and do not pressure the animal after the shot;
- shoot as heavy lbs as you can ... I have seen people shoot them with less than 70lbs, but I would not recommend ... draw as much as you comfortably can, depending on your draw length? = there is not overkill on these brutes (I now also have a 83lbs bow, which I'll be using for buff in future = 2 weeks from now);
- try and get close under 30 yards.

... arrow weight, perfect arrow flight, sharp broadhead and a broadhead that stays intact is imperative ... the bow I used in the example was actually on 68.5lbs, but I had a tad over 32" draw length and due to arrow weight, etc. I had incredible penetration ... the point I am making is that you do not need 100lbs (exaggeration) to kill them and changing the correct things relating to the arrow (e.g. FOC) assists with the penetration ... but it also does not help to have eFOC of 30% but your arrow flight is crappy or the broadhead curls when it meets bone

Obviously whatever I posted should be seen within reasonable limits e.g. shooting a 1000 grain arrow with a 50lbs bow won't be ideal also

Overall listen to what the PH recommends as he should know best ... thought I might just share some of my experience and comments ... hope you find it helpful

Cheers,
Eugene

ps: Late in Aus + tired = apologies for the syntax or spelling errors & groete aan al die Suid Afrikaners & Namibiers vanuit Aus

 

[Bobpuckett]

Dang and I thought reloading good bullets could get Complicated not even close.

 

[mudslinger]

Eugeneb, thanks for some good insight on what you have used and plan on using on Aussie buffs and on Cape buffs coming soon. the only problem I see with some of the DG heads taht are on the market is the reliability of the ferrule right behing the BH staying together on a bone hit. Even Ashby commented on the failure rate of his heads. I know of one head that does not have the failure rate if any failure rate from testing, but right now it is just a prototype and not going into production unless the requests for a bunch of these heads comes to fruition. these heads are a single bevel with a tanto tip. From what I have seen, this is an awesome head and one I would like to use for my Cape buff hunt in2014.

Also, welcome aboard.

 

[eugeneb]

Thanks Mudslinger & Good luck with your Cape buff!

Eugeneb, thanks for some good insight on what you have used and plan on using on Aussie buffs and on Cape buffs coming soon. the only problem I see with some of the DG heads taht are on the market is the reliability of the ferrule right behing the BH staying together on a bone hit. Even Ashby commented on the failure rate of his heads. I know of one head that does not have the failure rate if any failure rate from testing, but right now it is just a prototype and not going into production unless the requests for a bunch of these heads comes to fruition. these heads are a single bevel with a tanto tip. From what I have seen, this is an awesome head and one I would like to use for my Cape buff hunt in2014.

Also, welcome aboard.

 

[eugeneb]

(hope I loaded the pics in correct sequence)

The one I got at 18 yards ... I stalked into approx 35 yards ... the bull was broadside when I drew the bow ... immediately after I drew the bow it started feeding towards me, oblivious of my presence ... so I waited for it to turn



still feeding towards me ... approx 27 yards



approx 21 yards ... and still has no idea of my presence



At approx 18 yards I decided to take a frontal shot through the neck into the chest cavity (not recommended, but I was fairly calm, could visualize the vitals and the bull turned slightly allowing me to get into the chest area without major bone and I was very confident using the heavy arrows) ... all worked out well ... one arrow .. the bull stumbled and fell a couple of times before toppling over at approx 50 meters

The end result

 

[35bore]

My PH, who I have hunted with twice and returning with again this Sept. said that to hunt dangerous game with him in his area (I guess in the Limpopo of RSA) that all I would need is a 70# draw bow with an arrow weighing between 800 and 900 grains a a sharp 2 blade single bevel BH. Now this is his suggestions and I will tell you this, it will not be an easy treck to get an arrow in this range that is about 28" in length with an FOC over 15%, and with the spine. to handle that FOC and weight. With this scenario a spine of .240 or less is recommended. Not easy to find arrows spined under .250. If it is not posted for a certain area or region, then the PH should make a recommendation as they are the ones that live there and should know what is needed. I would be careful of getting recommendations from a PH or outfitter that is not a true bowhunter.

gasta, I completly agree, with mudslinger on this, even though I have never hunted Africa with a bow, I have considered Big Brown Bear in Alaska, I did a lot of research on them with a bow and most recomended a 800+ grain arrow. Assumption would be the same for Big stompers in Africa.

The following statement is only in fun, and that is the way it is intended, so please don't get offended (I like to have a little fun). As per your original post title "Draw weight and arrow weight for Dangerous bowhunt", if you want a dangerous bowhunt, then take a 30# long bow with a 100gr arrow weight and use field tips, that would make for one hell of a ride. Again, all in fun.

Post some pics of your hunt, and let us know what you chose.

 

[Bobpuckett]

The following statement is only in fun, and that is the way it is intended, so please don't get offended (I like to have a little fun). As per your original post title "Draw weight and arrow weight for Dangerous bowhunt", if you want a dangerous bowhunt, then take a 30# long bow with a 100gr arrow weight and use field tips, that would make for one hell of a ride. Again, all in fun.

I see you woke up with a sence of humor today. haha

 

[35bore]

I see you woke up with a sence of humor today. haha

Nope went to bed with a sense of humor, and a lot of "Lager":draught:

 

[Stretch]

The one I got at 18 yards ... I stalked into approx 35 yards ... the bull was broadside when I drew the bow ... immediately after I drew the bow it started feeding towards me, oblivious of my presence ... so I waited for it to turn
The end result

View attachment 10907

Congratulations. That so cool!

arrow weight, perfect arrow flight, sharp broadhead and a broadhead that stays intact is imperative ...the bow I used in the example was actually on 68.5lbs

Great advise eugeneeb. Even a lighter weight bow will penetrate well with a heavy arrow. I currently have Packsy and I set up with 15/16 grains per inch for plains game. I am experimenting with adding even more FOC weight.

An Aus or cape buffalo is on my bucket list.

 

[eugeneb]

Sounds good & thanks

Born and bred in Africa ... stayed 40 years in Namibia/South Africa and immigrated 4 years ago to Aus ... not as much variety as Africa, but the pigs and buff are great fun ... still visit Namibia every now & then for a hunt

Good luck with your bucket list ... may it realise sooner rather than later

Congratulations. That so cool!



Great advise eugeneeb. Even a lighter weight bow will penetrate well with a heavy arrow. I currently have Packsy and I set up with 15/16 grains per inch for plains game. I am experimenting with adding even more FOC weight.

An Aus or cape buffalo is on my bucket list.