Dozens of Lion Import permits issued

[Fred Gunner]

In this NPR Interview they give up their game: https://www.npr.org/2018/07/27/6331...ssued-permits-for-lion-trophies-to-republican

NPR's Audie Cornish speaks with Michael Harris, director of the Wildlife Law Program with Friends of Animals, about the recent findings about government-issued permits for imported lion trophies being given to Republican donors.

CORNISH: What have you learned about the process of determining who or who does not get a permit?

HARRIS: In the past, we have looked at how many permits are denied versus granted. And what we have found is that applications are almost always granted. We haven't seen any denied. So we really call this pay-for-play because as long as you're willing to put up the money to go there and you apply for the permit and pay your permit fee, it appears it's going to be granted.

CORNISH: It also means that Republican or Democrat, you could probably get one of these permits, right? I mean, talk about why you're drawing the conclusion that this is pay-for-play specifically for Republicans.

HARRIS: Well, I don't think we're trying to say that it's specifically for Republicans. What we're saying here is this is a program that the Republicans have utilized in greater numbers. In fact, we don't see any Democratic donors on the list at all. So it's just who wants these permits. It's not necessarily that the administration is favoring them, but it's a program that they know that their supporters would like to see. And they were very unhappy with the Obama administration's attempt to roll back the permit - applications that were being granted for these type of hunts.

So all that proves if a Democrat hunts a Lion he won't donate to the Republican Party...Stop the presses this is earth shattering news "Friends of Animals has now proven the Democrats who hunt don't give money to Republicans!!!

 

[Fred Gunner]

This from The Hill: http://thehill.com/policy/energy-en...zen-lion-trophy-permits-issued-as-trump-rolls

Thirty-eight permits have been granted to 33 individuals, allowing them to import the trophies into the U.S., according to the group Friends of Animals, which cited documents obtained through a Freedom of Information Act request.

A spokeswoman for the group told The Hill that all 38 permits were approved under the Trump administration. Friends of Animals noted that some of the hunts took place in 2016, and the majority of the permits to import trophies were applied for under the Obama administration.

Permits can be issued for animals that were killed years ago.

 

[Scott CWO]

Is there any information on where the majority of these animals came from, and what some of the criteria was to allow them to be imported?

Both the Save Valley Concervancy and the Bubye Valley Conservancy are safe bets in Zim due to the known high or over populations in these areas. I submitted research and population data from scientific studies done by Biologists that are well documented in the SVC. With the “case by case” system, it is important to have data to backup your applications. The permits that were just issued were for 2016-2018 hunts. My application is for 2019 and I hope to hear something this fall.

 

[Hank2211]

And I am mentioned in the piece! They detest me......

I find it amusing that Friends of Animals feels that your $800 contribution to Trump worthy of mention. There can be no question that that donation was the reason why the government decided to allow these imports.

On behalf of Canada, could I donate $1000 and get NAFTA back?

 

[Fred Gunner]

research and population data from scientific studies done by Biologists that are well documented in the SVC.

What is the SVC Please?

 

[Hogpatrol]

Both the Save Valley Concervancy and the Bubye Valley Conservancy are safe bets in Zim due to the known high or over populations in these areas. I submitted research and population data from scientific studies done by Biologists that are well documented in the SVC. With the “case by case” system, it is important to have data to backup your applications. The permits that were just issued were for 2016-2018 hunts. My application is for 2019 and I hope to hear something this fall.

Wish you the best getting your permit. Don't forget to post a hunting report.

 

[johnnyblues]

What is the SVC Please?

Save Valley conservancy. An area in Zimbabwe. Anyone have info on permits for Namibia?

 

[Scott CWO]

What is the SVC Please?

SVC - Save Valley Conservancy. It is located in the SE part of Zimbabwe. It is a group of private landowners that have removed livestock and brought back the indigenous species of wildlife and now they are offering hunting and photographic safaris. If you are interested in a safari there, send me a private message and I will give you more info. I have hunted the SVC.

 

[Scott CWO]

Save Valley conservancy. An area in Zimbabwe. Anyone have info on permits for Namibia?

I believe the permits that were recently issued for 2016 - 2018 were for Zimbabwe and Zambia. Zimbabwe and Zambia were previously approved by the USFWS on a country-wide basis before the current “case by case” basis system started. I will ask about Namibia. I believe the USFWS would consider a permit for any southern or eastern African country with the new”case by case” system but you would need verifiable population, anti-poaching and community conservation info to submit with the application for a chance of success in getting a permit. Just because an operator wants to sell you a lion safari doesn’t mean you could get a permit approved unless the operator has good population and conservation data that he can provide you for the permit application. The bar is set fairly high. I have negotiated a refundable deposit with my operator in case my permit is not approved. Any of you that are interested in a lion hunt should try to get something set up and approved before Trump is out of office. The window of opportunity could be small if Trump is not re-elected. Feel free to send me a PM if anyone needs more info.

As for elephant, I am hearing that we may get some news on elephant permits after the mid-term election. Stay tuned...

 

[cagkt3]

as long as you're willing to put up the money to go there and you apply for the permit and pay your permit fee, it appears it's going to be granted.

Isn't this the whole idea? We pay to go hunt (and thereby contributing to local communities and wildlife conservation), we apply for the permits (per the laws and/or regulations established by CITES, which the US is supposed to follow) and as long as everything is in order, the permit should be granted.

Am I missing something?

 

[Philip Glass]

I find it amusing that Friends of Animals feels that your $800 contribution to Trump worthy of mention. There can be no question that that donation was the reason why the government decided to allow these imports.

On behalf of Canada, could I donate $1000 and get NAFTA back?

Funny I don’t even remember how much I gave but now everyone knows!

 

[mark-hunter]

Just out of courisity, from article:

"The news comes just months after the Trump administration quietly began allowing more trophy hunting imports of lion and elephant parts from several African nations, saying it would review permits on a “case-by-case” basis as long as hunters demonstrate their actions to contribute to long-term conservation. "

The question:
How does hunter can demonstrate his actions to contribute to long term conservation?
What kind of documents, statements, evidence should be produced?

 

[johnnyblues]

I believe the permits that were recently issued for 2016 - 2018 were for Zimbabwe and Zambia. Zimbabwe and Zambia were previously approved by the USFWS on a country-wide basis before the current “case by case” basis system started. I will ask about Namibia. I believe the USFWS would consider a permit for any southern or eastern African country with the new”case by case” system but you would need verifiable population, anti-poaching and community conservation info to submit with the application for a chance of success in getting a permit. Just because an operator wants to sell you a lion safari doesn’t mean you could get a permit approved unless the operator has good population and conservation data that he can provide you for the permit application. The bar is set fairly high. I have negotiated a refundable deposit with my operator in case my permit is not approved. Any of you that are interested in a lion hunt should try to get something set up and approved before Trump is out of office. The window of opportunity could be small if Trump is not re-elected. Feel free to send me a PM if anyone needs more info.

As for elephant, I am hearing that we may get some news on elephant permits after the mid-term election. Stay tuned...

I should have been clearer, I’m specifically interested in Leopard import permits. Rosella from Safari specialty importers told me leopard is the easier than elephant and lion, but of course it’s on a case by case basis also. I’m hoping my Ph in Namibia gets a tag next year but if he does I’ll need to make sure he can provide me with the documentation I’ll need. I may have to consider Zimbabwe also.

 

[Fred Gunner]

I’m hoping my Ph in Namibia gets a tag next year but if he does I’ll need to make sure he can provide me with the documentation I’ll need.

Blues Brother,
I'm planning on Contacting my Union Brothers in the USF&W service in January 2019 when the whole permitting process starts. I don't have any close political ties to the Party in power...however I want my leopard to come all the way home should he visit my bait? I'll use what ever insider leverage a retired AFGE Local President still has and share whatever inside information I can get.
Keep the faith...Gunner don't quit!

 

[Scott CWO]

I should have been clearer, I’m specifically interested in Leopard import permits. Rosella from Safari specialty importers told me leopard is the easier than elephant and lion, but of course it’s on a case by case basis also. I’m hoping my Ph in Namibia gets a tag next year but if he does I’ll need to make sure he can provide me with the documentation I’ll need. I may have to consider Zimbabwe also.

Yes, in the past leopard has been easier. Everything now is on a case by case basis but probably still easier for leopard if your safari area has good history and you can get some good population and community conservation documentation from your operator and Namibia.

These are all uncharted waters. I know that the council appointed by Secretary Zinke wants to somehow come up with some certainty for operators with good populations. A move is also underway to get the USFWS to issue import permits based on CITES permits, not arbitrary political USFWS decisions that can vary by administration.

 

[Scott CWO]

Blues Brother,
I'm planning on Contacting my Union Brothers in the USF&W service in January 2019 when the whole permitting process starts. I don't have any close political ties to the Party in power...however I want my leopard to come all the way home should he visit my bait? I'll use what ever insider leverage a retired AFGE Local President still has and share whatever inside information I can get.
Keep the faith...Gunner don't quit!

Gunner,
I wouldn’t buy in to the journalistic BS that campaign donations, political party affiliations or union membership has anything to do with permit approvals. You will need good biological and community conservation data to get your permit approved so the decision to issue it can be defended by the USFWS against the antis. The safest bets from here on out will be to book hunts in areas with good data available.

 

[Scott CWO]

I should have been clearer, I’m specifically interested in Leopard import permits. Rosella from Safari specialty importers told me leopard is the easier than elephant and lion, but of course it’s on a case by case basis also. I’m hoping my Ph in Namibia gets a tag next year but if he does I’ll need to make sure he can provide me with the documentation I’ll need. I may have to consider Zimbabwe also.

The case by case basis approvals apply to the six countries of South Africa, Botswana, Zimbabwe, Tanzania, Zambia, and Namibia. Get your ducks in a row as to population, community and conservation data and apply.

 

[johnnyblues]

Shame that we are more concerned with the anti hunting public than the wildlife and people of Africa. I realize their are a hell of a lot more non hunting voters.

 

[Fred Gunner]

Gunner,
I wouldn’t buy in to the journalistic BS that campaign donations, political party affiliations or union membership has anything to do with permit approvals. You will need good biological and community conservation data to get your permit approved so the decision to issue it can be defended by the USFWS against the antis. The safest bets from here on out will be to book hunts in areas with good data available.

Do you know for a fact exactly what the USF&WS wants to see on permit applications or are you guessing? Have you successfully applied for a permit under the new case-by-case system?

I ask because no one here seems to know what the new system requires? The USF&WS has no information or guidance, the application forms are the same? The two import brokers I’ve talked to personally tell me that they have not received any approved permits since the new system went into effect and they don’t know what additional information is required. The permits for lions that this article refers to were submitted when Obama was running the USF&WS.

I’m going to use my connections to AFGE Union to get answers as to what exactly they require rather than guessing.

 

[BRICKBURN]

Isn't this the whole idea? We pay to go hunt (and thereby contributing to local communities and wildlife conservation), we apply for the permits (per the laws and/or regulations established by CITES, which the US is supposed to follow) and as long as everything is in order, the permit should be granted.

Am I missing something?

Because your brain does not operate in such a twisted fashion you missed the implied self righteous accusation about being a "rich, whatever" abusing the system to get whatever you want.

It's too bad you missed it and could not muster the manufactured outrage required by the folks at "Awful"

If you would like to empathize with them, please PM @Philip Glass with your best attempt at outrage.

eg. "I can't believe you made a perfectly legal donation to a political party when you could have used those funds for another trophy fee that would have helped the villagers where you hunted your Lion. What a bloody waste!"