Double rifle in .405 Winchester

[HWL]

@HWL here are a couple pictures I was able to locate.

View attachment 187094 View attachment 187095

Thank you @AZDAVE ..... beautyful gun!!

Do you have any further information about the gun, ...age, condition, origin, performance on paper & game?


HWL

 

[HWL]

Once I bought mine, I thought, this is the one and only .405 double on this planet,......

Now, there ale four already,.....




HWL

 

[AZDAVE]

Mine is has shoe lump barrel construction, Is marked Waffenfabriken Simson de Suhl on the action, 10.1x65 1/2 mm on the water table and barrels, and if I read the German proof marks correct it was proofed in Sep 1933. Haven't been able to find anything on line where I can cross reference serial number to year of manufacture. It was made right before the transition to Nazi ran industries if my memory serves correctly. Since I wasn't able to work in a big cat on the last safari it stayed home. I just took it on a black bear hunt but wasn't able to get into range so so far I have't been able to Harvest any game with this fine rifle. I have managed to kill allot of paper and ring a goo bit of steel. As you would expect it is balanced perfectly. It shoots Hornaday factory rounds 2 1/2-3in l and I have worked up Loads with Hawk, Woodleigh, and hornaday 300gr bullets that shoot 2r and 2l under 2in at 50. The Northfork Solids 0pen up a bit 2 1/2 in. Going back on safari next year and have a big cat on the menu. My only problem now is do I take the 405 (300gr at 2250fps), 450/400,(400gr Aframe at 2100fps) or 45/70 (350gr Aframe at 2050fps) All three shoot!

 

[BC.Pat]

My only problem now is do I take the 405 (300gr at 2250fps), 450/400,(400gr Aframe at 2100fps) or 45/70 (350gr Aframe at 2050fps) All three shoot!

Problems like that I could live with

 

[crs]

Dave, You might try a post on the German Gun Collectors Association site to learn more Simson gun history. germanguns.com
I did that when I acquired my Simson .405 double and they were very helpful.

 

[HWL]

Going back on safari next year and have a big cat on the menu. My only problem now is do I take the 405 (300gr at 2250fps), 450/400,(400gr Aframe at 2100fps) or 45/70 (350gr Aframe at 2050fps) All three shoot!

Take the .405 and follow the foodprints of Theodor Roosevelt.....



HWL

 

[crs]

"Take the .405 and follow the foot prints of Theodor Roosevelt...."
+1
Any of those three will do the job, so either pick one, flip a coin, have a forum poll/vote, take all three and shoot one cat per rifle, or book more hunts,,,,

I am a fan of the .405 and .45-70 in Winchester lever guns and in doubles, but have no feeling for the 450/400 in a double, single, or bolt action. (ambivalence ?)

+ based on my .405 NF loading and shooting experience, I would use their excellent SS bullet, not a solid on cats. The CPS and FPS are very effective on big stuff with big bones, but will punch through a leopard with no expansion.

 

[PeteG]

Any of those three will do the job, so either pick one, flip a coin, have a forum poll/vote, take all three and shoot one cat per rifle, or book more hunts,,,,
.

Now you're talking sense... at least one trip for each rifle.

 

[AZDAVE]

Well good comments Like the three safari method best. Rock Paper scissors comes to mind. Also giving thought to a 6in steel plate at 50 and 100., and shoot till there is a clear winner with most hits and if a tie 8in plate at 150 as the tiebreaker?

@crs I have looked at all the on the web history on Simson, Haven't asked any questions of the German collectors yet. I have kinda just been. Great rifle, shoot like a dream, made in Germany between the wars. Go shoot it allot kinda mind mind set.

I am considering putting a red dot on the 45/70 for night critters vs my bolt gun with illuminated reticle. But will have to do some testing.

 

[crs]

One of my DWWC friends has taken over a dozen leopards and after several cats, he settled on a lever action .45-70 as his leopard gun. One of his films of hunting with hounds showed a lot of dangerous action, but no one but the cat was seriously hurt.

I understand enjoying a rifle that shoots well. I have a lot of reloading to do after this weekends exotic hunt AND some BBQ.

 

[bilmcc]

One of my DWWC friends has taken over a dozen leopards and after several cats, he settled on a lever action .45-70 as his leopard gun. One of his films of hunting with hounds showed a lot of dangerous action, but no one but the cat was seriously hurt.

I understand enjoying a rifle that shoots well. I have a lot of reloading to do after this weekends exotic hunt AND some BBQ.

I am curious as to whether jacketed soft points or Garrett-style hard lead bullets were used. I would expect the latter to drill .45 holes through the cat.

 

[crs]

billmcc,
Been a while, but I think it was JSP ammo custom loaded by Superior Ammo.

The PAC Hunt leopard taken with my .45-90 fell to a 300 grain .458 Nosler Protected Point as 2200 fps.

A big bore for that cat, but most effective. That same combination , but at 1850 fps is also devastating to thin skinned deer, antelope and such.

 

[bilmcc]

The thought goes through my mind that an African trip with 45-70 and 358 Win. lever guns might be very interesting! Not in my budget, but interesting.

 

[AZDAVE]

@crs I also get torn with tradition and the 405 has African history because of Teddy. The 450/400 has a ton of history in Africa. the 45/70 is just one of my favourite rounds but only really modern history in Africa. With modern powders and bullets all three are super capable of all plains game (Within range limitations, I would perfer to stalk in close verse shoot from longer ranges) Leopard and Lion. I would have a better feeling with the 450/400 on Cape Buff and bigger critters. But like it was said earlier by @BC.Pat "Problems like that I could live with"

 

[crs]

Dave,
A game camera at the Hondo ranch took pix of the missing Nilgai after two weeks absence !
No one knows where they were hiding, so it looks like we will really have to hunt for them.
I was beginning to think I might have to shoot another water buffalo, bison, or a Yak!
My b.405 double is all ready with 300 grain Barnes TSX.
Leaving this weekend and back mid week next!

 

[crs]

After several hours of hunting, we found the Nilgai in heavy cover.


My son shot one too - with his .458 Socom. Meat is at the processors now.

 

[crs]

 

[crs]

to HWL, AZDave, Rick,
During the Dallas Safari Club show this coming January, Chris Troskie has asked me to take him hog hunting. There are several good choices and I feel sure wherever we go, it will be fun and there may be more to see than feral porkers. I am in email contact with Chris and Joe (friend in the exotic biz) and if you want to follow our progress, please let me know. My email is: crshelton@sheltontechnologies.com
Remember this:

 

[BC.Pat]

CRS, thats a lot pig! Looks like you had a great day.
Congratulations
Pat

 

[crs]

We all did - several 200-300 pound hogs and my 600 pounder ( estimated as there were no scales.) It dwarfed the 300 pounders.
And the breakfast sausage is great!

PS If you live in Victoria, good on you. One of my favorite cities anywhere.