Double Rifle: Ejectors vs Extractor

[Pondoro]

I don't think ejector/extractor matter that much but auto-safety on a double for DG is a no-no..

My .475 is extractor and I have disabled the auto feature.

 

[Heym 88]

very true....although I do like the easy open and close of an extractor gun. Plus very quiet too. My Heym has ejectors.

 

[Ray B]

the main issue that I see with ejectors would be the training issue where during practice the gun is opened with the right hand (for right handed shooter) held over the action to catch the hulls as they are ejected to prevent them from flying several yards across the firing line. Add to this the desire in hunting situations the desire to be as quiet as possible, so increasing the likelihood of catching the hulls and you have a situation where an animal is charging at close range and the hunter is trying to sort fired cases from live ammo in the reloading process. It seems best to me if the process was avoided so that range training and all possible hunting situations regarding the removal of fired cases and loading of fresh ones were as similar as possible.

 

[ArmyGrunt]

Actually, in my younger days as an offensive lineman playing American Football I could actually run a mile in five and half minutes. In order to move that large muscle mass, that fast, and that far extreme breathing was required. Today I can walk a mile in fifteen minutes but I am just as good at breathing.

 

[norfolk shooter]

Some Ramblins....
I own a 1905 Gibbs in 450NE, it is a non ejector gun and has an auto safety.
I have practiced hard to be efficient in quickly reloading this gun whether I have fired one or two rounds.
I

Just wondered how fast can you reload with extractors? Also do the extractors pull the cases out far enough that they drop out if the barrels are tipped up?

 

[zephyr]

Extractors will always be slower than ejectors because of the extra step needed to dump the expended rounds. If I am only reloading one barrel I will pull the empty out with my hand, if I'm reloading both barrels than I will tip the barrels up and the cases will fall free on there own. As mentioned earlier I practice to stay proficient
You will also find that ejectors will add cost to a double new or used and may end up costing extra to maintain
If I were to buy a new double it would probably have ejectors

 

[norfolk shooter]

@zephyr So would you say that there is a second or so difference between the two??

 

[Red Leg]

With regard to ejectors, as a client, I do not believe there is any difference that matters. I have guns and rifles with both and feel under no handicap with either (rather like single and double triggers). If I were a PH who guided hunts for DG, I would want ejectors. As others have noted, I truly hate an auto safety on a DG rifle. I shoot a lot of competitive box birds (pigeons) with period guns and many had no safety at all - and never an auto safety. In box birds, a safety fumble can cost you a race or even a match. With dangerous game, it can cost a life.

 

[norfolk shooter]

So with some drills and practise I think I should be able to get a good rate of fire with an extractor. I think anyhow. Does anyone know what the safety setup is on the Sabbati??

 

[Opposite Pole]

With a Krieghoff you can get what they call "intelligent ejectors". When you break the rifle in a cocked state it ejects, but if you decock (put safety on) and break it, it extracts. So if you're in less of a rush and more in a need of silence or are just practising at the range, you slide the safety back and break the gun quietly, but if you are in a hurry - break it, throw new shells in, close it - ready to fire. Got that option on my double and it works well.

 

[norfolk shooter]

Yes I know about the k gun system and have had a go too. I'm saying if it has to be one or the other?

 

[brettp]

The idea of the ping drawing in game makes no sense to me. If you've just emptied the rifle, didn't the game hear the shooting?

 

[rnovi]

The idea of the ping drawing in game makes no sense to me. If you've just emptied the rifle, didn't the game hear the shooting?

As I understand it (*I've only read about this), it's about direction. In close range hunting the sound of the rifle is "everywhere". It's so loud and echoey the animals can't really make out where the shots are coming from. The "ping" of brass being much softer creates a directional sound indicating where you are.

This becomes a problem when that elephant that is only wounded decides it wants to stomp your face into the dust.

 

[Dutch44]

I have both on my hammerless but only extractors on my hammer guns. I love them both and would dream of an ejector hammer gun. Rarer then hens teeth.

I had the same experience as Zephyr on a tuskless. Frontal brain at 15 yards and down for the count. I start to move forward and eject the empty to reload and...here they come trumpeting. We retreat but I was able to reload. We waited them out and then they left. Didn't want an empty barrel. Could have accomplished it easy with either ejector or extractor though. Video guy got it captured on film.

 

[cbvanb]

So with some drills and practise I think I should be able to get a good rate of fire with an extractor. I think anyhow. Does anyone know what the safety setup is on the Sabbati??

Mine is not automatic.

 

[IvW]

Ejectors are faster(fractionally so depending on competence of the shooter). The reloading procedure also differs between the two.
Some ejector guns require more effort to open than extractor guns.
Ejectors are more prone to malfunction on cheaper guns and need to be kept clean.
As for a selector between ejection or extraction I would not go this route as such a complicated mechanism opens the door for reliability issues and is not needed on a DG double. Make your choice and practice with that.

All too often the issue of picking up hulls/ejected shells is mentioned. Get out of the habit of being concerned about that and wanting to pick these up, concentrate and practice the task at hand. Make the first shot count and be instantly ready to take the second shot. You will have time enough after the action to look for shells.

From a PH point of view, I prefer ejectors with a non automatic safety.

 

[Foxi]

ejectors and non auto safety

much more Phs were killed,or badly hurt by unsafe guest guns than by buffalos.
I'm pro auto safety on a double.
Ejectors are not soo necersarry.
Latest ,when your second shot is failing, your PH is shooting.

 

[IvW]

much more Phs were killed,or badly hurt by unsafe guest guns than by buffalos.
I'm pro auto safety on a double.
Ejectors are not soo necersarry.
Latest ,when your second shot is failing, your PH is shooting.

Auto safety is not going to make for a safer guest gun that comes from unsafe and incompetence from the user. Guns don't kill, incompetent people handling the guns kill other people.

Auto safety will get somebody killed sooner or later but is more importantly a no no for a PH.

 

[CAustin]

The Merkel I just obtained is an extractor and manual safety. I am fine with both.
A PH demonstrated to me how one quickly reloads an extractor double. While holding the two new rounds between the fingers of the non trigger hand fire both barrels. Break and rotate the rifle up and to the side and the spent shells fall out. Quickly rotate the rifle to a level brak position and reload and close. I watched him do this twice and it was faster than I could cycle the bolt on my Ruger.

 

[IvW]

The Merkel I just obtained is an extractor and manual safety. I am fine with both.
A PH demonstrated to me how one quickly reloads an extractor double. While holding the two new rounds between the fingers of the non trigger hand fire both barrels. Break and rotate the rifle up and to the side and the spent shells fall out. Quickly rotate the rifle to a level brak position and reload and close. I watched him do this twice and it was faster than I could cycle the bolt on my Ruger.

Practice makes perfect!