Do German's just do it best?

[HankBuck]

The Corvette is a bargain, but I'd take a Nissan GT-R over a 'vette. You can get a GT-R (theoretically) for $121K that has AWD and significantly more HP than any Corvette.

@KurtVH - I guess the Nissan GT-R with AWD helps it in the “Snow”?? After the Corvette drove down to Florida - at 190mph !

 

[BJH65]

I have toyed with the idea of selling off a bunch of my “working class” rifles and obtaining a fine bespoke Reimer Johannsen 416 Rigby bolt action, arguably one of the best “pure” hunting rifles made. Maybe in a different reality I would. I have not seen Reimer Johannsen mentioned, but believe they should be in the conversation.

 

[KurtVH]

@KurtVH - I guess the Nissan GT-R with AWD helps it in the “Snow”?? After the Corvette drove down to Florida - at 190mph !

AWD helps it in everything except driving in straight lines.

 

[CZDiesel]

Many, many Tacoma, Landcruiser, Frontier, Xterra, Pathfinder, and Subaru (yes, Subarau) owners would beg to differ.

They can disagree all they want and their SUV’s and Trucks with the short articulation of their IFS vs a stock Jeep Rubicon with a long travel straight axle that has either a sway bar disconnect or a multi position off-road sway bar along with real skid plates, differential lockers both front and rear, much much heavier duty axles, a NP241 transfer case with a 4to1 low gear and that stock Jeep Wrangler Rubicon will SMOKE and of those listed off-road!!! Absolutely no debate on that!!!
Even a standard Wrangler will walk on them!

@KurtVH - based on what I’ve owned and driven and more so on what I’ve “seen” being used Off Road - especially in Africa = TOYOTA !
I never even saw any “Jeep” in Africa but i do see them in the US. The Tacoma & Land Cruiser seem to dominate, hold up well to high mileage and resell very high. But - Jeeps “look cool” and give a great “tuff & rugged’ appearance. Kinda like a big muscular guy on the football filed - that can’t take “a Hit”.

Because there are no American cars are there due to tariffs and no support!

@KurtVH - I guess the Nissan GT-R with AWD helps it in the “Snow”?? After the Corvette drove down to Florida - at 190mph !

Or my AMG SL63 that will do 205mph while giving you a shiatsu massage and listening to a Bang and Olufsen

AWD helps it in everything except driving in straight lines.

Not true, it actually helps most at launch in straight lines! With 50/50 weight on a rear wheel good drivers will keep pace, though the all wheel drive car does make it quite easier to drive fast as the over steer is basically eliminated. Ever see a LeMans GT or Prototype or F1 car using all wheel drive?

 

[sniper7]

In my opinion….absolutely. My Mauser has been flawless. My WWII vet bring back Mauser? Flawless. Pretty impressive IMO.
I have sold off several us made guns that don’t shoot nearly as good as almost brand new vs 70 year old German made that shoot better.

 

[MS 9x56]

I guess I have to say yes the Germans really do just do it better. My most recent rifle acquisition came down to a choice between a savage model 20 in 250-3000 or a Mauser 98 in 8mmx57j. The Mauser had engraving, a half octagon half round barrel, and a stock with 143/4LOP that fit me like a glove. I have been lusting for a savage model 20 for years but the Mauser came home with me.

 

[HankBuck]

AWD helps it in everything except driving in straight lines.

@KurtVH - the only thing AWD does is help sell cars to those that “think” its the same as 4WD and it helps a House Wife keep her Husbands car out-of-a-ditch when it’s raining lightly…..but she’ll still “put a dent in it” while trying to park.
AWD is to OFF ROADING as Masterbation is to Sex —-Not As Good

 

[KurtVH]

@KurtVH - the only thing AWD does is help sell cars to those that “think” its the same as 4WD and it helps a House Wife keep her Husbands car out-of-a-ditch when it’s raining lightly…..but she’ll still “put a dent in it” while trying to park.
AWD is to OFF ROADING as Masterbation is to Sex —-Not As Good

If I was taking a sports car offroad that would be germane.

 

[wesheltonj]

[emoji638]][emoji640][emoji6[emoji640][emoji637]]][emoji640][emoji640][emoji637][emoji638]]@KurtVH - the only thing AWD does is help sell cars to those that “think” its the same as [emoji640]WD and it helps a House Wife keep her Husbands car out-of-a-ditch when it’s raining lightly…..but she’ll still “put a dent in it” while trying to park.
AWD is to OFF ROADING as Masterbation is to Sex —-Not As Good

MB sells a lot of G-wagons. Some military, some not and all are AWD. They seem to work fine off road.

 

[KurtVH]

They can disagree all they want and their SUV’s and Trucks with the short articulation of their IFS vs a stock Jeep Rubicon with a long travel straight axle that has either a sway bar disconnect or a multi position off-road sway bar along with real skid plates, differential lockers both front and rear, much much heavier duty axles, a NP241 transfer case with a 4to1 low gear and that stock Jeep Wrangler Rubicon will SMOKE and of those listed off-road!!! Absolutely no debate on that!!!
Even a standard Wrangler will walk on them!

I guess all the middle east war lords pick Toyotas and Nissans because they prefer getting "SMOKED."

(Exclamation points don't actually strengthen your argument, BTW)

Because there are no American cars are there due to tariffs and no support!

Huh? American cars are sold all over the world including in Africa. Hell, Ford and GM produce cars in Africa.

There are over 20 Jeep dealers in South Africa alone. You don't see many of them being used in the bush because there are better options.

 

[KurtVH]

Not true, it actually helps most at launch in straight lines! With 50/50 weight on a rear wheel good drivers will keep pace, though the all wheel drive car does make it quite easier to drive fast as the over steer is basically eliminated. Ever see a LeMans GT or Prototype or F1 car using all wheel drive?

I think all LMH cars are AWD (rear ICE and front electric driven).

F1 HP limits makes AWD infeasible for that class, I think.

 

[CZDiesel]

@KurtVH No disrespect Kurt, you seem like a fine guy and I’d love to hang out! But I’d also love to have your Toyota, Nissan, Subaru, or whatever come to our Colorado trails and see how you do!
The only Toyotas you see on these trails have their complete suspension chopped off and go to straight axles! But no worries, we’ll agree to disagree and be friends
And yes, there is very little support for US vehicles outside of North America and yes while there are dealerships the vehicles cost much more than others due to the tariffs…

 

[HankBuck]

@KurtVH No disrespect Kurt, you seem like a fine guy and I’d love to hang out! But I’d also love to have your Toyota, Nissan, Subaru, or whatever come to our Colorado trails and see how you do!
The only Toyotas you see on these trails have their complete suspension chopped off and go to straight axles! But no worries, we’ll agree to disagree and be friends
And yes, there is very little support for US vehicles outside of North America and yes while there are dealerships the vehicles cost much more than others due to the tariffs…

@CZDiesel - I agree there are some very good Off Road trucks made in the US and “stock” the Ford Raptor; Ram Rebel/TRX; or Chevy ZR2, come to mind. Also, while I am a Toyota “fan” - the Tundra is a distant 4th in a 4 horse race.
But, there seems to be a consistent history of reliability & longevity with Toyota engines and their vehicles in general - they are ranked at or near the top in that area by most. If I didn’t have the $$$ to buy a new truck every couple years or to spend on customized Upgrades & repairs AND was miles deep - off road and on my own - I might want that Toyota reliability more then another 100 hp or and extra 4” of ground clearance. I’m NOT AN AVID OFF-ROADER, I go Off Road in pursuit of my hobbies or when I have a need —- Not for the “thrill of it” and in fact if any of My off roading becomes “thrilling” — something went wrong!

 

[VertigoBE]

@KurtVH No disrespect Kurt, you seem like a fine guy and I’d love to hang out! But I’d also love to have your Toyota, Nissan, Subaru, or whatever come to our Colorado trails and see how you do!
The only Toyotas you see on these trails have their complete suspension chopped off and go to straight axles! But no worries, we’ll agree to disagree and be friends
And yes, there is very little support for US vehicles outside of North America and yes while there are dealerships the vehicles cost much more than others due to the tariffs…

I think the Dakar Rally is arguably the most testing off-road race that exists. Not many American car/bike/truck brands there...

Dakar Rally - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[HankBuck]

I think the Dakar Rally is arguably the most testing off-road race that exists. Not many American car/bike/truck brands there...

Dakar Rally - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

@VertigoBE - is the “Dakar Rally” really relevant to determining reliable off road vehicles based on “normal use”? So if Ferrari wins at Le Mans - thats my next Family Car?

 

[VertigoBE]

@VertigoBE - is the “Dakar Rally” really relevant to determining reliable off road vehicles based on “normal use”? So if Ferrari wins at Le Mans - thats my next Family Car?

Fully agree with what you are saying. The cars used in such a competition are highly customized to excel for that specific race. But is it not telling that no American branded cars have (ever?) been used as a basis to build upon?

Sure, if Ferrari wins at Le Mans, it should not be your next family car, but perhaps your next mid-life crisis sports car?

I believe CZDiesel was talking about custom built Jeep rock climbers as being better than anything. As soon as you go the custom route, I suppose anything is possible, until only the badge is still original.

So to bring it back to the topic of the thread. For factory cars, rifles, other high-end/high performance objects, combining characteristics of price, quality, reliability and performance, I think Germany has gotten a thing or two figured out. (just like Japan)

 

[sniper7]

@KurtVH - the only thing AWD does is help sell cars to those that “think” its the same as 4WD and it helps a House Wife keep her Husbands car out-of-a-ditch when it’s raining lightly…..but she’ll still “put a dent in it” while trying to park.
AWD is to OFF ROADING as Masterbation is to Sex —-Not As Good

That’s a special way to put it but I had a 2004 suburban with AWD that would out-maneuver any vehicle on the road no matter the conditions. Meanwhile I’d have to put my brand new truck in auto or AWD.

Plus true 4wd is really rough. Most women prefer awd nice and smooth

 

[HankBuck]

That’s a special way to put it but I had a 2004 suburban with AWD that would out-maneuver any vehicle on the road no matter the conditions. Meanwhile I’d have to put my brand new truck in auto or AWD.

Plus true 4wd is really rough. Most women prefer awd nice and smooth

@sniper7 - I am also a SUBARU “Fan” and have owned two back in the late 1980s that had the ability to switch into true 4WD and they were Great, went thru any snow or plow ridge — until you High Centered it ! Subaru’s are very good and capable small cars and nowadays a Man can even get away with owning one without being “overly” ridiculed. However, they are still designed for WOMEN and the word “Subaru” is actually a combination of Latin & Swedish that means: Small Woman…

 

[John A Flaws]

I believe the Germans do make some very nice mechanical things, but I am not sure they are always the best. I have a couple of old pre-war German made firearms, which are nice, but I feel the British firearms are just better. There was a reason that the British firearms commanded a higher price than the German made firearms during the 20th century. One of the rifles is a Mauser B sporter in 9.3x62, while the other is an August Schuler 500.

 

[Huvius]

Nice two rifle battery!
I believe the distaste for German rifles and their comparatively lower values stems from the fact that Germany was the enemy of the Americans and English for the first half of the 20thC.
Not that England did anything inherently better except stylistically and the best English bolt guns were still on Mauser actions.