Do German's just do it best?

[VertigoBE]

Your post reminded me of this ad for Aston Martin pre-owned…

View attachment 639416

Ah, from the time when advertisement was still interesting.

 

[Foxi]

With respect to production rifles, I think that may be true with a couple of exceptions. One area that does separate US gunmaking, and frankly has for a while, is the quality of true bespoke custom rifles. A rifle custom built for a customer by Craig Libhart, Todd Ramirez, Bailey Bradshaw, and number of other incredible craftsmen continues a tradition of American bespoke firearms that are as elegant and effective as anything created in London or on the Continent.

Red Leg,
Customs rifles don't count, because you can find a specialist almost anywhere.
But German gunsmithing has been around since the early 15th century.
You do an
Apprenticeship of three years
4-5 years as a journeyman
then master craftsman.
(no idea so Google made the right translation
In America and many other countries, anyone who tinkers with the stock can officially call themselves a gunsmith.
This is not possible here, and so many companies have emerged over the centuries to cover the market on a large scale.
In Suhl there were already master gunsmiths (craft guild) before your country was even discovered.
Foxi


p.s. nobody shoots Falling block here.

 

[BeeMaa]

Obviously, I agree because all my rifles are Blaser.

Turn-key reliability and accuracy are only a click away from your local dealer.

 

[Hunter-Habib]

Yes, I wholeheartedly agree. But small scale American custom builders (such as Joe Smithson, John Boliger, Ryan Breeding or Reto Buehller) match them pretty evenly in terms of custom bolt action rifles.

The one place where nobody can match the Germans, is in building a first class double rifle which won’t break your bank like an English made double rifle will. And as an added bonus, German double rifle makers happily provide warranties for their rifles to be used with monolithic bullets. Something most British gun makers still hesitate to do today (barring Holland & Holland who switched their policy after Beretta bought them in 2021).

 

[HankBuck]

Mauser... Heym... Krieghoff... Merkel... Blaser... Sauer etc.

When it comes to fine hunting rifles, especially big bore DG ready rifles, do the Germans just do it best?

It really seems like the German's dominate the market for high-end, yet attainable firearms that don't require a second mortgage like their British counterparts.

Thoughts?

@Northern Shooter - I am Not a gun maker and Not a gun smith so take my opinion for what it’s worth (not much)…. I think the Italians & French (Beretta, Chapuis) make the best looking rifles and by far the best combination of “Form & Function” plus reasonable price. The German rifles are certainly mechanically excellent & efficient, very well made, perform as intended, and provide decades of flawless service — like most Military equipment ! Now remember I don’t know much about gun manufacturers and my opinion is similar to a preference for “Hot looking Italian & French Girls” vs and very smart and strong German gal !!

 

[mark-hunter]

Mauser... Heym... Krieghoff... Merkel... Blaser... Sauer etc.

When it comes to fine hunting rifles, especially big bore DG ready rifles, do the Germans just do it best?

It really seems like the German's dominate the market for high-end, yet attainable firearms that don't require a second mortgage like their British counterparts.

Thoughts?

There is old saying.
German rifle,
Italian shotgun,
American revolver.
I think, those who stick to it, can not do wrong.

We are not discussing accuracy. Every budget rifle today, is accurate.

But overall fit, finish, bells, whistles, look, appeal, mechanics, qualoty, draws me back to German rifles, or at least Finish or Austrian. Basically, European.

 

[Field28]

When it comes to function and accuracy, some Finns may beg to differ.

 

[Northern Shooter]

When it comes to function and accuracy, some Finns may beg to differ.

Tikka and Sako?

 

[spike.t]

I’d agree, for the same reason as I’d rather buy a Porsche than an Aston Martin

To be a bit more precise, the Aston Martin is more desirable. But the better purchase in the long run will be the Porsche.

Just look at how many 20yo Astons you see on the roads vs 20yo Porsches

Look at how many 2nd hand British rifles are on sale compared to 2nd hand Heym 89b’s ( I’m not considering the other brands you mentioned)

Well porsche do and have made a lot more cars than Aston....so obviously going to be more 20 year old ones around....last Aston I had was in 2008 I think...DB 9 volante..replaced my Porsche 996 turbo....both great cars but totally different in character....probably same as German guns....I honestly don't like the look of most German doubles apart from the heym 89...and of the rest only certain of the mauser and heym bolt actions appeal to me.

 

[RR 314]

They also produced Hartmann & Weiss, Jung, Ritterbusch etc. some of the finest rifles out there come from Germany.

 

[HankBuck]

Tikka and Sako?

@Northern Shooter - like Sako very much especially their the short rotation on their bolt action. I also like Tikka - the cheaper, uglier, but still functional & accurate “cousin”

 

[uplander01]

IMO the most functional rifles, accurate, and affordable would have to go to boutique manufacturers in NA, gunwerks, bergara, seekins, christensen, proof research. Blaser is the German flagship brand for functional accuracy and reliability, Sauer would be a close second, but neither of them is selling even close to the volume of rifles the aforementioned brands are selling. At the highest level of custom manufacture, IMO, a guy would be splitting hairs between English and German, and there wouldn't be much cost difference,...so I would go English if not only for name recognition, but for resale, and nostalgia.

 

[Field28]

Tikka and

Tikka and Sako?

Yes, I'm a huge Sako fan. All of my Sakos have been insanely accurate. Everything on a Sako feels smooth to me. The Finns make one hell of a gun. Easy on the eyes too!

 

[Red Leg]

Red Leg,
Customs rifles don't count, because you can find a specialist almost anywhere.
But German gunsmithing has been around since the early 15th century.
You do an
Apprenticeship of three years
4-5 years as a journeyman
then master craftsman.
(no idea so Google made the right translation
In America and many other countries, anyone who tinkers with the stock can officially call themselves a gunsmith.
This is not possible here, and so many companies have emerged over the centuries to cover the market on a large scale.
In Suhl there were already master gunsmiths (craft guild) before your country was even discovered.
Foxi


p.s. nobody shoots Falling block here.

I don't think we are in disagreement my friend. I suspect I know as much about the history of gunmaking and European tradecraft as most here. As I noted in my post, all of my regularly used production rifles are German, Austrian, British, or custom American creations. But, I don't think anyone in Europe should be surprised that the United States, with a population of nearly 330 million and enthusiastic gun ownership, should have a large and robust custom gun sector - one that has gained both a lot of notoriety and large following since the days when Jack O'Connor carried Al Biessen's magnificent creations on Model 70 actions all over North America.

I have no statistics, but a walk through a couple of major gun shows in this country and a bit of prowling through the internet would certainly leave the impression that the annual production of American craftsman made rifles easily exceed the total number of fine European rifles imported into this country each year. The majority of that work is exceptional, particularly if the gunmaker is a member of the American Custom Gunmakers Guild (ACGG). I am not even counting the small production gun making operations in this country.

My only point is that in this country, many sportsmen who are able to afford a fine Continental or British rifle do not always buy them because they would prefer to have a bespoke rifle built for them by a skilled American artisan.

With regard to single shot rifles, you are unfortunately correct. The German/Austrian hunter has changed dramatically since I first went afield with them in the late seventies. Loden cloaks and leather stiefelhosen have given way to synthetics and even camouflage. Fine drillings and wonderful single shots like those on Martin Hagn actions have been replaced by the synthetic creations of Blaser and Mauser. Who last saw a Mannlicher Schoenauer bergstutzen in use in the Alps?

But yes, were I to purchase the rifle I would most want in the whole world, I would pick up the phone and dial +49 and order a Hagn actioned single shot in 7x65R from Hartmann & Weiss.

Because I really can't afford that, I find it comforting that the US still has a very active custom rifle industry and Bailey Bradshaw could build me that 7x65R.

 

[Field28]

The old Sako 30-06 putting in work in Africa and here at home...

 

[93marlin]

My two favorite rifles are German. From the Imperial Germany era. The oldest is an 1879 produced single shot bolt built on an 1871 action.
The second is the rifle in my avatar. 1896 produced JP Sauer double rifle.
I have an English double rifle 1870's 500 BPE. The German guns are favorites.

 

[PerH]

 

[Tally-Ho HUNTING SAFARIS]

100% correct

 

[coreydb]

Craftsmanship is art...kills are precision

 

[deewayne2003]

Yep! They do it right or not at all.

I would argue that German mechanical engineering will either produce the BEST or the Weirdest ...... with very little in between.