Difference between the 450/400 and the .450 3¼

[Tanks]

Hello there! Alright, I think you laid it out pretty well. I am mostly interested in Buffalo, Hippo and maybe far in the future a Lion so no Pachyderms (unless an amazing deal comes up on a Rogue or wounded animal) or Rhinos are on my list of future hunts. That being the case it seems like either the 450/400 or the 450 N.E. would be about as much rifle as I am going to need I think...!

As mentioned before, the .470 is a ballistic equivalent of the .450 including recoil. And as @AZDAVE stated ammo is more available for it. Compared to a 450/400 .470 has 37.5% more bullet surface area which translates to more effectiveness when dealing with dangerous game.

BTW, a tuskless or a non-trophy elephant in Zim is less expensive (though not by much) than a buffalo hunt and definitely less expensive than even a CBL lion hunt in RSA. Also, there are times when one can find deals at Camp Fire areas on elephants. One area had a lot of crop raiders still left on permit (late season) and I was offered additional elephants at $3K per elephant. A hell of a deal!!!

 

[DWB]

As much as I like the 450NE, you will be hard pressed to find ammo for it here in SA.

The 450/400, 470NE and 500NE will be available

 

[postoak]

You do realize that the.450/.400 is a 40 caliber right? The British put the necked to caliber last, which is just the opposite of the Americans. So there’s no comparing this to a .450. They are completely different bore diameters.

 

[HWL]

As much as I like the 450NE, you will be hard pressed to find ammo for it here in SA.

The 450/400, 470NE and 500NE will be available

The ban of the British Empire works... still today!!!



HWL

 

[Eventually_Africa_Again]

The ban of the British Empire works... still today!!!



HWL

When the Britts muck something up it stays mucked up dang it!

 

[stug]

John Pondoro Taylor stated in his African Cartridges book that if he could only have one rifle it would be a 450/400.

 

[Eventually_Africa_Again]

John Pondoro Taylor stated in his African Cartridges book that if he could only have one rifle it would be a 450/400.

You know, I think I will just find a good 450/400. Nothing wrong with it, just not as powerful as some of the competition.

 

[Tanks]

You know, I think I will just find a good 450/400. Nothing wrong with it, just not as powerful as some of the competition.

Here you go then:

https://www.gunsinternational.com/g...uot-eject-bbls-ready-for.cfm?gun_id=101273458

 

[Tanks]

I remembered I had seen a .450/400 for sale on these very forums. Found it for you, I think it is still for sale.

https://www.africahunting.com/threads/for-sale-heym-88b-safari-rifle-–-450-400.54842/

 

[Eventually_Africa_Again]

Here you go then:

https://www.gunsinternational.com/g...uot-eject-bbls-ready-for.cfm?gun_id=101273458

Funny enough I actually called him today! He has already sold that one but has another one coming at the end of May that I might be interested in!

 

[Eventually_Africa_Again]

I remembered I had seen a .450/400 for sale on these very forums. Found it for you, I think it is still for sale.

https://www.africahunting.com/threads/for-sale-heym-88b-safari-rifle-–-450-400.54842/

So I also have my eye on a Chapuis for about 11500. I am not sure which is "better" (if there is a "better" at all) so I'll need to look into it!

 

[Tanks]

So I also have my eye on a Chapuis for about 11500. I am not sure which is "better" (if there is a "better" at all) so I'll need to look into it!

From what I have been told by most, the ranking of non-British doubles is Heym -> VC -> Chapuis/Merkel

I am not including Krieghoff Big Five double in the list above due to its funky de-cocking open opening.

There is a rather exhaustive thread about some of those brands in here.

For whatever it is worth I bought two of those on that list just recently, a Heym .500 NE, and a Verney Carron .450 NE. Due to funky CA waiting periods (on day 15 now) I have not been able to fire either one.

 

[Eventually_Africa_Again]

From what I have been told by most, the ranking of non-British doubles is Heym -> VC -> Chapuis/Merkel

I am not including Krieghoff Big Five double in the list above due to its funky de-cocking open opening.

There is a rather exhaustive thread about some of those brands in here.

For whatever it is worth I bought two of those on that list just recently, a Heym .500 NE, and a Verney Carron .450 NE. Due to funky CA waiting periods (on day 15 now) I have not been able to fire either one.

I will have to hunt down that thread! I have to say (and this is nothing against the rifle of course) but the Heym is pretty plain, no scroll work or anything. Not that that would affect the way the bullets come out at all, but it's just something that I'm throwing into the mix in my head. Also I am so sorry that you have made those purchases but nto been able to enjoy them. Are your ranges even open for when they do come in, or do you have some property yourself so you don't need a range?

 

[Opposite Pole]

I am not including Krieghoff Big Five double in the list above due to its funky de-cocking open opening.

If you mean decocking upon opening you are mistaken, K-gun does not auto decock, if you break it cocked it stays cocked and is ready to fire upon closing.

 

[Tanks]

I will have to hunt down that thread! I have to say (and this is nothing against the rifle of course) but the Heym is pretty plain, no scroll work or anything. Not that that would affect the way the bullets come out at all, but it's just something that I'm throwing into the mix in my head. Also I am so sorry that you have made those purchases but nto been able to enjoy them. Are your ranges even open for when they do come in, or do you have some property yourself so you don't need a range?

Heym can be ordered with as much scroll work as you want based on your budget. Ditto for the others. I belong to a private range, so once the guns are released I will be able to shoot them. I am in the process of handloading some test ammo and also have factory ammo to check existing regulation and test velocity with my LabRadar.

Edit:
Here is that thread.
https://www.africahunting.com/threads/krieghoff-big-five-vs-heym-88-or-89-vs-blaser-s2.55960/

 

[Eventually_Africa_Again]

Heym can be ordered with as much scroll work as you want based on your budget. Ditto for the others. I belong to a private range, so once the guns are released I will be able to shoot them. I am in the process of handloading some test ammo and also have factory ammo to check existing regulation and test velocity with my LabRadar.

Edit:
Here is that thread.
https://www.africahunting.com/threads/krieghoff-big-five-vs-heym-88-or-89-vs-blaser-s2.55960/

Well thanks for acting as the tracker on that thread! Also I'm glad to hear your going to be able to shoot them when they come in, I hope your loading goes very well!

 

[Tanks]

If you mean decocking upon opening you are mistaken, K-gun does not auto decock, if you break it cocked it stays cocked and is ready to fire upon closing.

You are right it is the S2 that does the de-cocking. The K-gun one has to manually cock/de-cock the barrels via safety as explained in the other thread and from what people were explaining it takes a bit of an extra effort to do that.

 

[Opposite Pole]

You are right it is the S2 that does the de-cocking. The K-gun one has to manually cock/de-cock the barrels via safety as explained in the other thread and from what people were explaining it takes a bit of an extra effort to do that.

It does take a bit of effort, but with some practise one can learn to cock it while brining the gun up to the shoulder. I don’t even think about it anymore. I recon cocking my double is not any harder than switching the safety off on my M70.

 

[Tanks]

It does take a bit of effort, but with some practise one can learn to cock it while brining the gun up to the shoulder. ...

Problem, for me anyway, is it having a different manual of arms that requires extra practice. The two doubles I bought just recently are for playing (and hunting with) prior to buying a Rigby Rising Bite or an H&H or a Wesley Richards double in a couple of years. By the time one of those purchases happen I would have thousands of rounds through my doubles in addition to dry fire practice of bringing the gun up, reloading, etc., etc.. After all that I would not want to re-learn the manual of arms for a British double.

Train, how you fight. I do the same with handguns. I am a competitive USPSA shooter that shoots about 50K-60K rounds in a year and I dry fire for a tad over an hour each day. I use a pair of single action 2011s in .40 S&W to compete. My CCW is an STI DVC Carry which is a single action 2011 in 9mm with a shorter barrel. Same manual of arms.

 

[Opposite Pole]

Problem, for me anyway, is it having a different manual of arms that requires extra practice. The two doubles I bought just recently are for playing (and hunting with) prior to buying a Rigby Rising Bite or an H&H or a Wesley Richards double in a couple of years. By the time one of those purchases happen I would have thousands of rounds through my doubles in addition to dry fire practice of bringing the gun up, reloading, etc., etc.. After all that I would not want to re-learn the manual of arms for a British double.

Train, how you fight. I do the same with handguns. I am a competitive USPSA shooter that shoots about 50K-60K rounds in a year and I dry fire for a tad over an hour each day. I use a pair of single action 2011s in .40 S&W to compete. My CCW is an STI DVC Carry which is a single action 2011 in 9mm with a shorter barrel. Same manual of arms.

Makes perfect sense. Remember to post the pictures of your new double when you get it, something for us to drool over.