Decision between two M70 300 H&H's

[enysse]

ActionBob, third gun safe is the way to go!

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

ActionBob, third gun safe is the way to go!

You're not helping me here Eric!

 

[enysse]

Hey guys, ActionBob has to give space for those classic rifles to breath!

I bought a safe many years ago and no matter how many guns they tell you can fit in there, that is far from the truth!!!

 

[Ray B]

I'm quite interested to hear the story on the mid-70s mfg CRF M70. I recall that for several years after 1964 and until about 1985 Winchester continued to claim that they would NEVER go away from the new-M70 action.

 

[sierraone]

The only answer I have received so far from the Winchesterowners.com is that "sometime later", after the push feeds where introduced, "Winchester re-introduced the controlled feed on their Classic line of Model 70s." I am still hoping that someone on the site will give me a year.

 

[Ray B]

The Winchester documents at the Cody museum may be able to supply the information, but I've only seen records regarding pre-64 guns. I recall reading an article in the late 80's about limited (virtually one at a time) CRF actions being made for SCI auctions and the like, then about 1988 Winchester went into small scale production, initially calling the variation of the M70 "Pre-64". this evidently had problems with legal, so the name of the CRFs was changed to "Classic". I saw a Model 70 Classic Super Grade 338 Win Mag that sole new in 1991. It had a five digit serial number, so I'm guessing that would be about two years worth of actions- so my guess is about 1988-89 Winchester started the CRF. I have heard of cases where gunsmiths turned existing pushfeed M70 actions into CRFs, but that must have been a major undertaking.

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

If you believe Wikipedia, M70 Classics, which reintroduced the CRF action, came to market in 1992. This jives with my memory as this was about the time I owned only one rifle and started looking at having more. I can recall the "big deal" being made about Winchesters being made with CRF actions again.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winchester_Model_70

 

[CTDolan]

The year 1992 jives with my memory, also (in that I was relatively recently married and therefore too poor to buy one at the time!).

Maybe I'm late to the party but I'd go for the early rifle (the one from 1954). The rifles were, in general, much more well made than anything post-64 (although, some of today's rifles are pretty good...some, but not all). Further, it has a bit of history to boot. Really, in my mind, it's a no-brainer.

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

The year 1992 jives with my memory, also (in that I was relatively recently married and therefore too poor to buy one at the time!).

Maybe I'm late to the party but I'd go for the early rifle (the one from 1954). The rifles were, in general, much more well made than anything post-64 (although, some of today's rifles are pretty good...some, but not all). Further, it has a bit of history to boot. Really, in my mind, it's a no-brainer.

I believe the current Winchesters under FN's eye are as well made as ever. Just picked up my .300WM Super Grade this weekend which I had been ignoring. It reminded me of why I say this about the new ones quite quickly.

 

[Bullthrower338]

It still isn't here guys, as soon as I have a serial number all of our questions should be answered. I've made my mind up that the pre 64 is definitely going home with me and quite possibly the post 64 rifle also.

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

It still isn't here guys, as soon as I have a serial number all of our questions should be answered. I've made my mind up that the pre 64 is definitely going home with me and quite possibly the post 64 rifle also.

You might want to look at my recent post on Peregrine bullets. Working on a load for my .300H&H with those.

 

[Bullthrower338]

You might want to look at my recent post on Peregrine bullets. Working on a load for my .300H&H with those.

I read it last night, looks quite promising! Where are you getting your bullets? For the size of Houston I haven't found a store that carries much in reloading components. I miss sportsmans warehouse! Wish they would build one here. Y'all still got one out your way Phil?

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

I read it last night, looks quite promising! Where are you getting your bullets? For the size of Houston I haven't found a store that carries much in reloading components. I miss sportsmans warehouse! Wish they would build one here. Y'all still got one out your way Phil?

There are two Sportsman's in Phoenix. One is not too far away in the east valley. The other is on the NW side of town.

Look up GUNS, ETC. in Mesa, Arizona on Google. They may take mail orders. Other than that, I'd recommend going to Peregrine's website and contact them either by phone or using the area on the Contact page to send a message. I did the latter yesterday with a question and they responded not long after.

 

[Bullthrower338]

There are two Sportsman's in Phoenix. One is not too far away in the east valley. The other is on the NW side of town.

Look up GUNS, ETC. in Mesa, Arizona on Google. They may take mail orders. Other than that, I'd recommend going to Peregrine's website and contact them either by phone or using the area on the Contact page to send a message. I did the latter yesterday with a question and they responded not long after.

I am on Peregrinebullets.com and can order from the site. Going to get some of the match bullets for load development as recommended in the plainsmaster page. Looks like a hell of a bullet! PlainsMasters are 53.90/50, is that about what you are getting them for? 180 grain bullets is what I'm looking at

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

I am on Peregrinebullets.com and can order from the site. Going to get some of the match bullets for load development as recommended in the plainsmaster page. Looks like a hell of a bullet! PlainsMasters are 53.90/50, is that about what you are getting them for? 180 grain bullets is what I'm looking at

Yep that's the price I paid, or close enough to it. Pay attention to the "How To Seat" page. I sent a question in regarding removing expander ball versus crimping, and which would be better. They recommended after decapping to remove the expander ball and let the bullet during seating do the neck expansion. In theory that should result in a very consistent neck tension. Having a good chamfer will be critical to that operation I think.

I'll be doing my best to not watch the election results tonight and spend my time in the garage working up some loads to see how this goes. Will report in my Peregrine thread.

 

[Bullthrower338]

Yep that's the price I paid, or close enough to it. Pay attention to the "How To Seat" page. I sent a question in regarding removing expander ball versus crimping, and which would be better. They recommended after decapping to remove the expander ball and let the bullet during seating do the neck expansion. In theory that should result in a very consistent neck tension. Having a good chamfer will be critical to that operation I think.

I'll be doing my best to not watch the election results tonight and spend my time in the garage working up some loads to see how this goes. Will report in my Peregrine thread.

That's interesting, so decap using just a decap ping die? No neck sizing? I should have mine in a few days, looking forward to loading some up. If I get a chance I'm gonna go pick up the pre 64 today so I can get busy with it and maybe shoot an elk In Montana with it at Thanksgiving

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

That's interesting, so decap using just a decap ping die? No neck sizing? I should have mine in a few days, looking forward to loading some up. If I get a chance I'm gonna go pick up the pre 64 today so I can get busy with it and maybe shoot an elk In Montana with it at Thanksgiving

Not exactly. You want to compress the neck as normal, but not expand it using the expander ball. Due to I'm guessing varying hardness of the brass, the expansion of the neck as the expander ball passes through will result in varying post sizing inside diameter of the neck.

Because only the driving bands of the Peregrine's are at caliber diameter and wider than any other part of the bullet, only those bands are in contact with the inside of the brass neck. As such if the inside diameter is a little on the large side, it will feel almost as if the bullet is seating itself as you go through that stroke, i.e. very little resistance. I noticed this when seating the bullets last weekend.

So you have to do one of two things to ensure bullets down in the magazine aren't being slammed into the brass on recoil. The first idea I had was to crimp.

The second idea is to run the brass a second time through the full length sizing die but with the expander ball / decapping pin removed, which will of course result in a 'tight' neck. Then seat the bullet and let the driving bands do the expanding. This is the recommendation of Peregrine.

 

[Ray B]

it might be picking a nit due to the closeness of date, but I recalled a transaction that involved a review due to a rifle initially put on LayAway, then cancelled. It was the previously mentioned M70 SuperGrade serial number G19XXX. the transaction is dated Dec 12, 1991. A five digit serial number would place it well into a year or twos production and I recall reading articles about the reintroduction of the non-rotating extractor well prior to that date. I've read other sources that indicate the model was put on the market in 1992, so either Winchester stored a bunch of them up and let them go a little early, or the 1992 date is a little off.

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

I've read other sources that indicate the model was put on the market in 1992, so either Winchester stored a bunch of them up and let them go a little early, or the 1992 date is a little off.

I would guess the former versus the latter. I'm sure from a business perspective that once they announced the return of the CRF action it would sell quickly. So no sense in being caught without supply.

 

[colorado]

It still isn't here guys, as soon as I have a serial number all of our questions should be answered. I've made my mind up that the pre 64 is definitely going home with me and quite possibly the post 64 rifle also.

The pre-64 would be my pick. I did buy a LH M70 Classic in stainless/synthetic for my oldest son in 416 Remington. At his request we had the barrel shortened to 22" and had it CeraKoted. He likes it a lot. Here's an earlier picture. It's got a Leupold 1.5-5x scope on it now with Cerakoted Talley steel QR rings. He got his first black bear with it (it was way overkill, his 270 would've been just fine, but a new gun and all of that ).