Dangerous Game Hunting and the case for bigger not always being better

Great plan! I would simplify further and use the same Aframes or Barnes X bullets that you are going to use on dangerous game on plains game. Take one type of solid and one type of soft to Africa.

People can argue about whether Barnes, TSX, or swift A-frame is a better bullet, but no one should deny they’re both excellent choices for Africa.
 
An effective bullet must be placed correctly. The 270 grain has not been discussed in this conversation if we are only discussing Barnes. A prudent and secure option is 375.
 
Any bullet can fail, given the wrong circumstances.

It's knowing what to do on the follow-up shots, that can make all the difference.


I think American hunters are probably the worse at wanting to shoot one time and then admire their handiwork.

An African hunter needs to keep shooting until the quarry is down, and then send at least one more "insurance shot".

Dang - They can't take meat home anyway.
 
Any bullet can fail, given the wrong circumstances.

It's knowing what to do on the follow-up shots, that can make all the difference.


I think American hunters are probably the worse at wanting to shoot one time and then admire their handiwork.

An African hunter needs to keep shooting until the quarry is down, and then send at least one more "insurance shot".

Dang - They can't take meat home anyway.
Two big things I have had to work on; admiring my first shot, big mistake and being able to reload my DR without looking.
 
I am planning a DG Safari and while preparing for this trip I have been absorbing and digesting information about rifle cartridges performance on dangerous game and to be specific for taking Cape Buffalo and certain larger plains animals such as Kudu, Wildebeest and Zebra. Ranges for buff would be 0-100y and for all others 50-350y. Ignoring the very specific needs of the PH to carry a "Stopper" in case a wounded beast charges I am considering which chambering to apply for my hunt. Toward that end can a case be made that bigger is NOT always better? I will offer some comments to start but really want to hear what you experienced hunters think?
  • Data presented in this forum by a PH covering over 60 buffalo suggests that the 375 H&H resulted in one-shot-stops about 80% of the time. This included the 9.3mm Mauser and exceeded the results of all other larger calibers.
  • If not being applied as a close range DG only rifle the flatter trajectory of the 375 or even the 416 Rigby make them better for longer range shots allowing a better chance of a well placed first shot.
  • I do not think anyone would argue that a 500NE would not be a better stopper at 50ft distance and there are inherent advantages of a classic double rifle in making a quick 2nd shot. But I have also seen hunters miss shots out past 50y on buffalo with their doubles. Have also seen them mis-identify the target when hunting with only iron sights resulting in misses or shooting the wrong animal.
  • I think most of us would agree that assuming we have chosen a proper DG rifle/cartridge then the importance of a well placed first shot is the most important variable that would determine success.
  • The development of cup-point solids has greatly enhanced the penetration of smaller DG rounds such as the 375 which closes the performance gap between it and other larger calibers when applied as a close range stopper.
  • The variable of recoil sensitivity is hard to predict. I am not all that recoil sensitive and often bird hunt with a light weight 12ga dbl and love it but also know that after a long day of dove hunting I tend to raise my head anticipating recoil and thus begin to shoot high over my birds. Double rifles or very large caliber bolt guns are extremely valuable and the ammo is quite costly. As a result, few hunters are going to shoot hundreds of rounds thru them. Without that practice it is easy to miss or worse make a poor hit due to anticipation of the significant recoil.
  • Often the slower, larger projectiles do not expand with the same authority of the faster options. Comparing a 375 A-Frame or Barnes X in 300g leaving the muzzle at 2550 fps to for example the 458WM running about 2000fps at the muzzle. By the time they hit the animal at say 100y it is not unusual for the expanded diameter of the 375 to be equal or larger than the expanded diameter of the 458. Thus the permanent wound channel may also be larger. These premium bullets like the Swift or Barnes options also improve the terminal effects of the larger calibers but only up to the limits of the velocity they leave the bbl and their ability to expand. If you have seen Swifts bullet display of expansion at slower velocities you know that they do not expand all that much below 1650fps. The big ole 458WM dwindles to that speed at about 200y while the diminutive 375 does not drop below that speed until out past 350y. Based on that data, one could hypothetically expect that at 200y a 375 H&H and a 458WM both loaded with Swift A-frame bullets might expend to very similar diameters at 200y. The larger 458 still has more retained energy at that range but
My original choice was the 416 Rigby since I thought I might not want the recoil from the 458 or larger options. Before I could find a suitable rifle, I came across a nice 375 and bought it, so I have mostly made my choice. I do own a 458 but being limited to bringing only two rifles with me, I am planning to leave the big bore home since it is only really useful (IMO) for the buff and the rainbow trajectory makes using it on longer range plains game a poor choice. I am sure there are many of you who would argue otherwise. I would like to hear your comments.
I think you should take the rifle you with common sense find most suitable for the game in question also taking into consideration the area you are going to hunt ….. Personally when hunting in Namibia/South Africa I used a 300 Wby; one load with 220 gr Nosler and another with 165 gr
Accubond both dead on at 150 yards.
I ended up shooting abt 10 plains game on distances 150 -250 yards; all with the Accubond.
A 270 would have been even better (less recoil);
On s hunt to CAR for Bongo and Forest Buffalo I was hesitating between a 470 double and a scoped .458 …. Knowing that circumstances are tough for a rifle I took the 458. Ammo 480 gr Woodleigh soft and solid and Federal’s 400gr.
All of them with zero 100-120 yards.
I ended up using only the 400 grain with success including a yellow backed duiker at 150 yards running …..
On a hunt in Zim mainly for PAC elephant and eventualy Buffalo and some plains game I used my vintage WEvans 470 (open sights). The rifle is extremely accurate with old Kynoch cordite ammo. It shoots also well with Federal ammo which I used for that hunt. - It feels good to carry a double on a safari and in elephant country you kind of feel safe with it…..for buffalo only it is of course ok even though a scoped 375/416/458 increases your chances for a good shot at distances beyond those for an open sighted double.
Taking 2 rifles these days on an African safari is a hassle; I once took a 9,3 double and a 30-06 to Zambia…..every day problem: which gun to take along; I used the 30-06 for 95% of everything.
The buffalo with the 9,3. The Zambian laws would have permittted me to use the 30-06 also for buffalo.
On a later safari to Zambia I used a 375H&H with which it’s difficult to go wrong and I would consider ideal for hunting inZambia.
On an African safari I always liked to use my own guns with which I had sufficient prior hunting experience and also on a shooting stand.”
 
Just a small question, can a pass through or exit wound be expected with 375 swift a frame 300 grains, on broad side shot?
Depends on range. I had several 300 grain Swift A-Frames pass through on broadside shots at ranges out to 100 yards on animals like wildebeest and zebra.

I’m now using 300 grain Barnes TSX with incredible accuracy and will be testing some Woodleigh Hydros as well.
 
Two big things I have had to work on; admiring my first shot, big mistake and being able to reload my DR without looking.
Admiring the shot was a hard habit for my wife to get over but consistent practice got her back on the scope quickly for a follow-up if needed.

4-shot dry fire practice with your DR will sort out reloading in a hurry.
 

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Grz63 wrote on Werty's profile.
(cont'd)
Rockies museum,
CM Russel museum and lewis and Clark interpretative center
Horseback riding in Summer star ranch
Charlo bison range and Garnet ghost town
Flathead lake, road to the sun and hiking in Glacier NP
and back to SLC (via Ogden and Logan)
Grz63 wrote on Werty's profile.
Good Morning,
I plan to visit MT next Sept.
May I ask you to give me your comments; do I forget something ? are my choices worthy ? Thank you in advance
Philippe (France)

Start in Billings, Then visit little big horn battlefield,
MT grizzly encounter,
a hot springs (do you have good spots ?)
Looking to buy a 375 H&H or .416 Rem Mag if anyone has anything they want to let go of
Erling Søvik wrote on dankykang's profile.
Nice Z, 1975 ?
Tintin wrote on JNevada's profile.
Hi Jay,

Hope you're well.

I'm headed your way in January.

Attending SHOT Show has been a long time bucket list item for me.

Finally made it happen and I'm headed to Vegas.

I know you're some distance from Vegas - but would be keen to catch up if it works out.

Have a good one.

Mark
 
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