CZ in .500 Jeffery doesn't feed

[Velo Dog]

Currently owning eight CZ center-fire rifles, I must admit that I am rather fond of them.
However, I recently received a CZ custom shop Model 550 Magnum, .500 Jeffery.
Cost over 3 grand.
The bolt will not close on any of the three A-Zoom snap caps I just bought for it.
"Harlan" at CZ Custom, told me there are two versions of the .500 Jeffery chamber dimensions, and to try Superior brand factory live ammunition in it, before deciding the chamber is too short.
The fly in my oatmeal is that one of my fellow, proper rifle collectors has; an original Shuler, marked ".500 Shuler".
It has a 24" barrel that obviously is not cut back from the earlier 27" ones more common to such rifles (the solid, full length rib and front sight ramp are all one piece).

I suppose the devil might say: "perhaps someone removed the whole rib, cut the barrel to 24" behind the muzzle, then cut the rib at the back end, near the chamber and re-silver soldered it all back together, thereby not showing any funny business near the ramp/front sight.
I suppose anything is possible but, it surely does not appear to be modified in any way since it was built in the 1920s.
Therefore, I suspect it was a late production rifle, as original Shuler built rifles go, (not marked with the metric designation) and it chambers my snap caps like it was made for them.
Seems to me that the Gunsmith who invented this cartridge would know what chamber dimensions to cut the chambers to, especially toward the end of the production years for this cartridge, however few Shuler may have made in total.

Long story but, my efforts to get my wrinkled up hands on "Superior" brand .500 Jeffery cartridges were futile.
However, midwayUSA.com happily sent some live Kynoch rounds to a relative's address in lower-48.
Soon I will be visiting there and fetching said ammo home to Alaska, for to give it a try.

Anyone else had similar CZ .500 Jeffery issues?

Cheers,
Velo Dog

 

[Red Leg]

.500 Jeffery is a great round and a bear to headspace due to the minimal shoulder. Issues between the Schuler and Jeffrey chambered rifles are common. Once you get something that feeds, you will end up with a fire formed case which will tell you exactly what needs to be done with your rifle and its loads.

 

[Velo Dog]

Red Leg,

Thanks for that.
Previously, I had only heard / read that Harold Wolfe of Belgium, makes rifles and ammunition / brass with a full width "rim" (still a rimless design, same as most Mauser type cartridges, just not as common the rebated rim type / original spec .500 Jeffery and Shuler rifles / cartridges).
I know you know more about these things than I do but, I include the tedious details for anyone reading this who, may not be extremely familiar with this cartridge, like I was not until only a few years ago.

Now learning from you that, the Shuler and Jeffery versions were different chamber demensions, I have another question.
Why do you suppose A-Square markets their snap caps as ".500 Jeffery" when they don't chamber in same but fit an original Shuler chamber like they were made for each other?
Seems to me that, A-Zoom would be selling mighty few snap caps.
I have only seen two original .500 Shulers on the internet for sale.
Seems like they were marked "12.7x70" etc, plus one in person definitely marked ".500 Shuler" (and I'm really old).
Can't remember how many CZ 550 magnum, plus various custom maker .500 Jeffery rifles I've seen for sale on the internet and in person but, it has been relatively many these last few years (obviously gaining in popularity).
I am tempted to conclude that either I'm the only guy who practices dry firing DG rifles from the shoulder with snap caps or, my rifle has a short chamber and needs to be sent back to CZ for re-chambering.

 

[colorado]

I couldn't get the Kynoch rounds to chamber in my CZ 500 Jeffery either. I bought my ammo from MidwayUSA too. I had some feeding (not chambering) issues. Harlan at the CZ Custom Shop did some work smoothing things out, Wayne at AHR polished the feed ramp, but Kevin Weaver (weaverrifles.com) finally fixed it by machining the magazine follower groove to be a little wider for that fat 500 Jeffery case. I think the magazine follower was the only thing that really needed fixing.

I use Jamison brass I get at Graf& Sons, I load the 570g Barnes TSX and Barnes Banded Solids. I use Federal 215 primers, 103g H4895 for 2300 fps with both bullets and seat to an overall length of 3.63 but you can go shorter. You can drop down to 101g and get 2150 fps but I wouldn't go any lower because load density is important and if you go lower you risk hang fires.

I'm going to see Kevin tomorrow for some other rifles, if you want I can ask him to make another follower and send it to you. I can't help you with factory ammo, because the only ammo I ever bought was the Kynoch and it wouldn't chamber, never mind feed and extract. The Barnes handloads work beautifully though. If you want I can send you a dummy round.

Good luck with your rifle!

Chuck

 

[Velo Dog]

Colorado,

Thank you for your kind offer and excellent advice.
However, I have already spent over 3K just buying the dern thing and if the new Kynoch cartridges don't work correctly in it, I plan to send it back to CZ Custom for correction.
I will be quite surprised (and seething with furious anger) if they try to beat any more pesos out of me for their oversight (even if it worked correctly, it should only retail for something closer to what their .458 Lott version goes for.
At this very moment, I am embarrassed that I paid so much for it.
The one I have in .458 Lott only cost me 1K and is no doubt plenty enough for up to / including elephant, even a grumpy one.
If I am wrong, I will get back to you for contact info on the guy who makes the followers (in between shotgunning my warning about CZ all over the World Wide Web).
Again though, I expect only the best service from them to fix the problem.
Who knows, perhaps Harlan is right, IE; Essentially A-Zoom is making their snap caps to only fit Shuler built rifles (the entire handful still in use today, woopie) and not the numerous CZ, plus custom rifles ones out there and more being built every day.
A-Zoom just accidently marketed them as .500 Jeffery instead of .500 Shuler and I'm getting grumpy about nothing.
Thanks again for your kind offer, I will keep you posted.

I spent most of my life savings on Mausers and safaris, the rest I just wasted.

Cheers,
Velo Dog

 

[colorado]

Hi, please don't misunderstand me. Harlan at CZ Custom Shop will do his best to make it right and will not charge you. He's an excellent gunsmith. I just don't think anyone but Kevin saw the magazine follower issue. For all I know it was specific to my rifle. I wish you the best, and understand your feelings completely. I had a sick feeling in my gut when my rifle wouldn't feed the second round (it would always feed the first) one out of 10 times.

 

[Velo Dog]

No worries Colorado,

I understand completely.
Sometimes I get too wordy and thereby, it is myself that often confounds others.
Yup, it is a sick feeling to spend over 3 thousand bucks, only to have the product fail.
Seems to me they would make extra sure their premium line of rifle would stay in the shop until they had been thoroughly tested, (at least with snap caps teeheee.)
Extra sickening when you recon their cheaper rifles seem to run like a locomotive.
Oh well, if this is the worst thing to happen, I guess i have a pretty good life.

Adios for the moment,
Velo Dog.

 

[Velo Dog]

Hello again Red Leg and Colorado,

Just returned from CA relative's house with 3 boxes (5 rd each box) of new Kynoch .500 Jeffery cartridges (hazmat shipping to Alaska is robbery).

They do chamber in my rifle but headspace is very tight (bolt handle requires moderate amount of pressure to close on the live rounds).

HOWEVER, the plot thickens:
The do not feed from the magazine, without one person holding the rifle and operating the bolt, while another person manipulates / jockeys each cartridge until it gives up and begrudgingly finally is chambered.

A couple of my friends here in Anchorage, have kindly offered to go with me, (if I pay their way) on my next safari, in order that they can stand on either side of me, each time I need to run the bolt, and manipulate each cartridge into the chamber for me.

I am so very annoyed that, I've decided to not let the goobers @ CZ touch the rifle again, free of charge or not.

Since they could not be bothered to function test a $3,000. plus priced rifle, before letting it leave their CUSTOM SHOP, in the first place, damn if I can be convinced they would not just make it worse.

A Gunsmith here in Anchorage (Andy Hawk) has examined the rifle, snap caps and live ammunition, he will be doing the work.

He told me of one exactly like mine but in .505 Gibbs that had the exact problems.

The owner returned it to CZ for correction but it returned later, still non-functional so, Andy repaired it and the owner paid Andy, then sent the bill to CZ with the promise to sue them for it if they drag their feet (said .505 owner is a Lawyer).

More on all this nonsense to follow.

Out,
Velo Dog.

 

[35bore]

Hi, please don't misunderstand me. Harlan at CZ Custom Shop will do his best to make it right and will not charge you. He's an excellent gunsmith. I just don't think anyone but Kevin saw the magazine follower issue. For all I know it was specific to my rifle. I wish you the best, and understand your feelings completely. I had a sick feeling in my gut when my rifle wouldn't feed the second round (it would always feed the first) one out of 10 times.

Ditto, CZ will take care of the issue as Colorado said.

 

[Velo Dog]

Velo Dog here.

(Somehow I managed to erase the pretty blue background and italics, fancy border etc., of the quote setting here but the following is me quoting part of one of my earlier posts on this painful subject


[Begin QUOTE] "I am so very annoyed that........I've decided to not let the goobers @ CZ touch the rifle again, free of charge or not.

Since they could not be bothered to function test a $3,000. plus priced rifle, before letting it leave their CUSTOM SHOP, in the first place, damn if I can be convinced they would not just make it worse.

A Gunsmith here in Anchorage (Andy Hawk) has examined the rifle, snap caps and live ammunition, he will be doing the work.

He told me of one exactly like mine but in .505 Gibbs that had the exact problems.

The owner returned it to CZ for correction but it returned later, still non-functional so, Andy repaired it and the owner paid Andy, then sent the bill to CZ with the promise to sue them for it if they drag their feet (said .505 owner is a Lawyer).

More on all this nonsense to follow.

Out,
Velo Dog." [End QUOTE]



Hello 35bore, Colorado and all who had suggestions,

Thank You, each and every one but, I am cutting off my own nose just to spite my face (as usual).
IE: My favorite Gunsmith here at home already has the rifle/ammo and snap caps.
No goobers will touch it if I have anything to say about same.
They've already done plenty enough.

Yours Truly,
Velo Dog.

PS:
Not sure why there is a smiley face near the beginning of this post (I have always left the "No icon" setting as such) and I cannot figure out how to be rid of same either but, oh well, I suppose it's not the end of the world (just doesn't fit what I said very well).

 

[spike.t]

Mmmmm all this has got me wondering what mine will do when it arrives from over the ocean. paper work in the process of being done. at least its going to arrive at paul roberts so he will be able to sort out any glitches, but its worrying that these things arent sorted in the workshop before delivery..........p.s. what factory ammo has anyone used that fit/worked through the action without mods to the rifle?

 

[colorado]

Spike, I'd call Harlan Satrang at Triple River. He builds the 500 Jefferys for the CZ Custom Shop and can tell you what ammo they test them with. I'm pretty damn sure it's not Kynoch, hopefully Norma PH ammo. My issue with feeding was every so often, not good enough for a DG rifle. Turned out it was the magazine follower. It would always feed and extract the first cartridge, one out of 10 times it would jam on feeding the second. If you have an issue, my guess is that will be it. I'll be happy to either have my gunsmith make you one, or send my modified follower to Harlan and have him look at it and send one to you. My hope is that you wont have any issues. Since Kevin Weaver fixed my magazine follower I've worked over a thousand dummy rounds, slow, fast, upside down, etc as well as 400 full power rounds through the rifle. Not a single issue.

My load: Jamison Brass, Federal 215 primers, 570g TSX, 103g H4895, OAL 3.63 gives 2300 fps and 1/2" three shot groups at 100 yards. If you seat the bullet to an OAL of 3.53 it groups the same and will get you another 50 fps.

Best of luck with the new rifle

Chuck

 

[Velo Dog]

Hello Spike.t,

I agree with you that things should be sorted out, in CZ's so called CUSTOM SHOP, prior to any rifle being shipped, but evidently, they're all jacked up.

You probably should listen to colorado, instead of me, he seems to see things clearly when, all I can see is red right now.

I'm so angry about spending well over $3,000.US on something that, not only fails to function as well as their "plain" production rifles function, (costing less than one third of what I paid for the .500 Jeffery), but it does not function at all.

I hope your rifle works correctly so you will not have to deal with any of this TOTAL NONSENSE, compliments of CZ's so called CUSTOM SHOP.

My advice is probably not rational (paying out of my own pocket to have someone I trust repair CZ's effuped product, without giving CZ the chance to eff it up any worse than they already have - (oops, was that my out-loud voice?) I meant to say, CZ's otherwise excellent product, without giving CZ the chance to repair it.

I will get back to this subject, after a PROPER Gunsmith (Andy Hawk) finishes cleaning up CZ's mess.

According to PT Barnum, "There's a sucker born every minute" and lately, since the ice is beginning to melt here in Anchorage, I've had this strange urge to slurp dead bugs and such from the bottom of shallow lakes near my house.

Out,
Velo Dog.

 

[Velo Dog]

Hi again Colorado,

Harlan told me (before I quit talking to him) that I should try "Superior" brand live ammunition.

Hazarous Material shipping permits through Canada to AK are insanely expensive on small ammunition orders.

They cost a lot more than the ammo itself so, I had to order it sent to a relative in the Lower 48 States, ($18. shipping/handling) then next time I went there for a visit (unrelated to ammo), I fetched it home to Anchorage in my checked luggage.

Superior Ammunition would not respond to my emails.

Therefore I ordered mine from MidwayUSA but, they only had .500 Jeffery from Kynoch in live factory cartridges which, I have no argument against.

The point?
I think if Harlan was actually function testing the so called CUSTOM SHOP rifles which, evidently he is not bothered with, it sounds like he'd prefer Superior Ammunition brand.

So anyway, thank you again for the offer/information on the follower replacement.

I will be interested in one, if my Gunsmith friend has any fits about getting my .500 to function 100%.

He has both repaired as well as modified several of my various CZ 550s and 98 Mausers to my delight now that, I expect nothing short of the same result on this mess.

No doubt it'll be many weeks or perhaps months but he said he hoped to finish all work I requested (Mod-70 safety, stock work, etc), including 100% reliability before summer is over.

I will keep you posted via this thread.

You are a cooler head than I when receiving something that does not work as advertized, and I applaud you for it.

My Best Regards,
Velo Dog

 

[spike.t]

Spike, I'd call Harlan Satrang at Triple River. He builds the 500 Jefferys for the CZ Custom Shop and can tell you what ammo they test them with. I'm pretty damn sure it's not Kynoch, hopefully Norma PH ammo. My issue with feeding was every so often, not good enough for a DG rifle. Turned out it was the magazine follower. It would always feed and extract the first cartridge, one out of 10 times it would jam on feeding the second. If you have an issue, my guess is that will be it. I'll be happy to either have my gunsmith make you one, or send my modified follower to Harlan and have him look at it and send one to you. My hope is that you wont have any issues. Since Kevin Weaver fixed my magazine follower I've worked over a thousand dummy rounds, slow, fast, upside down, etc as well as 400 full power rounds through the rifle. Not a single issue.

My load: Jamison Brass, Federal 215 primers, 570g TSX, 103g H4895, OAL 3.63 gives 2300 fps and 1/2" three shot groups at 100 yards. If you seat the bullet to an OAL of 3.53 it groups the same and will get you another 50 fps.

Best of luck with the new rifle

Chuck

thanks for the offer. i will wait and see how it works and if there are problems what paul says. if there are feed problems i will tell him what you had done , and velo dog hope yours gets sorted, cheers mike

 

[Velo Dog]

Spike.T,

Thanks, I am confident it will turn out well in the end, because the Gunsmith that has it has done nothing but exemplary work on several of my other rifles (plus, he's had practice on the other guy's .505 I mentioned).

If there is the slightest issue, he will call me and I will re-contact Mister Colorado for his Gunsmith's phone #, and have that guy send one of the re-worked followers to me, etc.

I have discovered that one almost always wins as long as one refuses to quit.

Regarding your pending .500, I wish you all the best with it.

Hopefully mine and one or two others mentioned in this forum are just freaks and yours will arrive as advertised, a true Dangerous Game Rifle, and not just an expensive door stop.

Cheers,
Velo Dog.

 

[Velo Dog]

Hi again Colorado,

Harlan told me (before I quit talking to him) that I should try "Superior" brand live ammunition.

Hazarous Material shipping permits through Canada to AK are insanely expensive on small ammunition orders.

They cost a lot more than the ammo itself so, I had to order it sent to a relative in the Lower 48 States, ($18. shipping/handling) then next time I went there for a visit (unrelated to ammo), I fetched it home to Anchorage in my checked luggage.

Superior Ammunition would not respond to my emails.

Therefore I ordered mine from MidwayUSA but, they only had .500 Jeffery from Kynoch in live factory cartridges which, I have no argument against.

The point?
I think if Harlan was actually function testing the so called CUSTOM SHOP rifles which, evidently he is not bothered with, it sounds like he'd prefer Superior Ammunition brand.

So anyway, thank you again for the offer/information on the follower replacement.

I will be interested in one, if my Gunsmith friend has any fits about getting my .500 to function 100%.

He has both repaired as well as modified several of my various CZ 550s and 98 Mausers to my delight now that, I expect nothing short of the same result on this mess.

No doubt it'll be many weeks or perhaps months but he said he hoped to finish all work I requested (Mod-70 safety, stock work, etc), including 100% reliability before summer is over.

I will keep you posted via this thread.

You are a cooler head than I when receiving something that does not work as advertized, and I applaud you for it.

My Best Regards,
Velo Dog

Hi, please don't misunderstand me. Harlan at CZ Custom Shop will do his best to make it right and will not charge you. He's an excellent gunsmith. I just don't think anyone but Kevin saw the magazine follower issue. For all I know it was specific to my rifle. I wish you the best, and understand your feelings completely. I had a sick feeling in my gut when my rifle wouldn't feed the second round (it would always feed the first) one out of 10 times.

Hello again Colorado,

When you get a chance, could you let me know how to get in touch with your Gunsmith that modifies the CZ .500 Jeffery followers?
I mentioned this to my 'smith here and he wishes to converse with him, compare notes, etc.
He re-worked a bogus CZ so called "Custom Shop" .505 Gibbs to work smooth and perfect but, he thinks the follower idea has merit, especially if he hits a snag on mine or any other CZ so called "Custom Shop" rifles.

Thanks,
Velo Dog.

 

[colorado]

Hello again Colorado,

When you get a chance, could you let me know how to get in touch with your Gunsmith that modifies the CZ .500 Jeffery followers?
I mentioned this to my 'smith here and he wishes to converse with him, compare notes, etc.
He re-worked a bogus CZ so called "Custom Shop" .505 Gibbs to work smooth and perfect but, he thinks the follower idea has merit, especially if he hits a snag on mine or any other CZ so called "Custom Shop" rifles.

Thanks,
Velo Dog.

 

[colorado]

Hi, his name is Kevin Weaver he's a great guy and an awesome gunsmith. Here's his website:

http://www.weaverrifles.com/

and his email address

kevin@weaverrifles.com

Tell him Chuck Scappaticci recommended him. If he'd like me to bring in my follower I'm happy to do that too.

Good luck!

 

[Velo Dog]

Hi, his name is Kevin Weaver he's a great guy and an awesome gunsmith. Here's his website:

http://www.weaverrifles.com/

and his email address

kevin@weaverrifles.com

Tell him Chuck Scappaticci recommended him. If he'd like me to bring in my follower I'm happy to do that too.

Good luck!

Thanks Colorado,

I really appreciate this and I will tell him that you recommended him.

My plan is contact him myself so that my plug for you does not loose anything in translation.

Adios for now,
Velo Dog.