Credit Cards

theres no ad hominem attack.. my post is fact based.. the facts don't lie..

I am also an MBA.. I also hold an MS in Strategic Management... I also hold (held) a Certified Risk Manager (CRM) certification, have worked for a 2x organizations in the Fortune 500, and am a current CEO...

So what?

None of that has anything to do with the facts, any more than your resume does..

Businesses (not just in Africa, but anywhere) wont survive long accepting excess risk.. we agree on that

but.. once again, so what? clearly if outfitters in Africa have survived for decades that have not charged their clients CC fees are surviving, the risk is not excessive..

the point about a cost being associated with accepting risk.. we completely agree on that.. I addressed that in my earlier post... its clear that many outfitters are willing to pay that cost, because they see the risk as low, and they see the reward (more clients, happier clients, etc) as greater than the risk and the associated cost..

I also agree with you that Africa is complicated.. Ive been doing business across the continent for more than 20 years and have ongoing projects being executed in 2 different African countries now..

No one thinks or has claimed that a CC fee is a charity.. your MBA program would however have taught you that there are things like "value add" propositions and certain business costs that do indeed get eaten very purposefully.. no one does "value add" as charity.. it gets done (when done properly) because the cost associated with enhancements or features provided in the service or product being delivered make the seller (and product or service) more appealing to customers, which ultimately leads to more revenue and/or profits because of improved relationships, additional sales, etc..


The nuance you're missing @mdwest is one of risk appetite. If you're talking about high-fence ranches in RSA, a total loss for an operator on one client is a "soft loss". They lost some game that is somewhat fungible, they lost some hospitality actual costs. Hard-money in such an example of say $40,000, the actual losses are maybe $4000.

Same scenario, but say its in Zimbabwe. The hard costs for that $40,000 hunt would be $30,000 cash outlay. Most of Africa is not high-fence ranches and most of Africa is operating on razor thin margins with large cash outlays.

I'm sure you realize that the risks associated with credit cards are incredibly high in the latter example just as the costs of accepting credit cards erode a sizable amount of the profit after expenses.

The OP didn't say where he was going, so I gave general answers that are truths of economics. In some areas of Africa he can use a card, in many areas he cannot, but can and ought are not the same thing. It's pretty rare to find a business that doesn't give a cash discount, or CC surcharge inversely, for all the reasons covered in this thread.
 
The nuance you're missing @mdwest is one of risk appetite. If you're talking about high-fence ranches in RSA, a total loss for an operator on one client is a "soft loss". They lost some game that is somewhat fungible, they lost some hospitality actual costs. Hard-money in such an example of say $40,000, the actual losses are maybe $4000.

Same scenario, but say its in Zimbabwe. The hard costs for that $40,000 hunt would be $30,000 cash outlay. Most of Africa is not high-fence ranches and most of Africa is operating on razor thin margins with large cash outlays.

I'm sure you realize that the risks associated with credit cards are incredibly high in the latter example just as the costs of accepting credit cards erode a sizable amount of the profit after expenses.

The OP didn't say where he was going, so I gave general answers that are truths of economics. In some areas of Africa he can use a card, in many areas he cannot, but can and ought are not the same thing. It's pretty rare to find a business that doesn't give a cash discount, or CC surcharge inversely, for all the reasons covered in this thread.
It very clearly says South Africa
 
Just for the record : They would be charging me a 3% fee. I way that against being robbed or other unforeseen circumstances. It’s my first trip and have no real experience with the outfitter. Didn’t mean to start a war !

Arguing is sport on AH. This isn't close to a war, I'd buy all these guys a beer any day, even those that are wrong. :) If you want to see a war, go to the politics thread right before another mandatory all-forum cooling off period. :ROFLMAO:

You'll have a great trip. Yes you can pay a 3% fee, but you can also bring cash in a money belt and negotiate from a position of strength with cash in hand for additional trophies. Businesses love cash.

P.S. - I missed the part where you said South Africa which I'll own.
 
Just for the record : They would be charging me a 3% fee. I way that against being robbed or other unforeseen circumstances. It’s my first trip and have no real experience with the outfitter. Didn’t mean to start a war !
Paying 3% service fee isn’t bad when you compare to international wire fees from the bank. I honestly hate wires you just trust they receive it. There is no verification. Credit card is easier for smaller amounts. Just make sure the card you use doesn’t charge an additional 3% foreign transaction fee. It can add up fast on your statement.
 
I think I paid 4% CC fee on my 2 extra animals beyond what my hunt cost last August. I brought cash for gratuities.

I deposited personal checks into their US bank account at the branch near my house, the hunt was 100% paid for before I left.
 
Arguing is sport on AH. This isn't close to a war, I'd buy all these guys a beer any day, even those that are wrong. :) If you want to see a war, go to the politics thread right before another mandatory all-forum cooling off period. :ROFLMAO:

You'll have a great trip. Yes you can pay a 3% fee, but you can also bring cash in a money belt and negotiate from a position of strength with cash in hand for additional trophies. Businesses love cash.

P.S. - I missed the part where you said South Africa which I'll own.

Completely agree...

I consider it more of a "debate" most of the time... I'd gladly belly up to the bar with @rookhawk and most of the others that over the years I have "debated" with and buy the first round.. at the end of the day we all have shared/common passions, common interests, etc.. we just might disagree on some things every now and again.. .
 
We always keep it civil:

1743456613024.png
 
The nuance you're missing @mdwest is one of risk appetite. If you're talking about high-fence ranches in RSA, a total loss for an operator on one client is a "soft loss". They lost some game that is somewhat fungible, they lost some hospitality actual costs. Hard-money in such an example of say $40,000, the actual losses are maybe $4000.

Same scenario, but say its in Zimbabwe. The hard costs for that $40,000 hunt would be $30,000 cash outlay. Most of Africa is not high-fence ranches and most of Africa is operating on razor thin margins with large cash outlays.

I'm sure you realize that the risks associated with credit cards are incredibly high in the latter example just as the costs of accepting credit cards erode a sizable amount of the profit after expenses.

The OP didn't say where he was going, so I gave general answers that are truths of economics. In some areas of Africa he can use a card, in many areas he cannot, but can and ought are not the same thing. It's pretty rare to find a business that doesn't give a cash discount, or CC surcharge inversely, for all the reasons covered in this thread.

Risk appetite is definitely a factor.. and definitely going to vary from business to business and locale to locale..

When it comes to credit card risks, I believe there is a huge amount of variance between industries both in how much actual risk is present, and how much appetite is present as well..

For example my wife is an accounting executive for a fairly large hospitality management company.. they manage about 160 hotels (last count I heard), a few restaurants, a few golf courses, etc around the country..

Credit card charge backs are a HUGE issue for them.. all of their hotels deal with charge backs on at least a weekly basis.. sometimes on a daily basis.. guests will try to dispute charges and claim there were problems with the room, or that they were treated poorly, etc.. or will claim they didn't actually eat in a restaurant (even though their signature is on the bill), etc..etc.. knowing that hotels in particular get a TON of pressure from their flags (Marriott, Sheraton, etc..) to allow these sort of disputes to go unchecked and just give money back to the clients even in cases where the clients claims cant be proven or founded..

So the hotels bake in a certain value into their daily room rates to cover what they know is a very high risk for them (that they have very little appetite for).. at the end of the day, you, me, and other "honest" customers are paying a few bucks more per room per night to cover the cost of the lying turd that's going to drink every bottle in the mini bar, then swear the bar was never stocked and they didn't drink anything (even though there are a dozen empty bottles in the trash in the room)..

The hotel doesn't charge a CC use fee per se... but they do in fact cover the costs they know they're going to incur because of charge backs (by making the rest of us pay for it)...

My experience with outfitters has been the opposite though.. Most are still primarily getting paid by either check or wire.. they know they are going to be hit with a CC fee from their bank if a client uses a card, but they just eat that fee when it happens rather than ask for the client to cover it.. its worth it to them to keep the client happy, make the transaction easy, etc.. (they hope that the client will rave about them upon return to the US, that the client will come back and see them again in the future, etc.. and ultimately "losing" that 3% will make them a whole lot more money on the back end by providing that added value to the client...).. they don't necessarily have a huge appetite for risk (in the form of a chargeback), but they generally speaking don't see a high probability in the occurrence happening either.. so its worth the trade off...

The one and only exception Ive experienced so far is for an upcoming hunt I have in New Zealand in a few weeks..the contract does provide multiple ways the outfitter can be paid (check, wire, cash, etc) and does advise if a CC is used they will add a 3% fee..

This hasn't been the case on either hunting or fishing expeditions Ive been on anywhere else in the world.. (maybe Ive just been lucky so far)..

It also hasn't been common for other fairly large transactions Ive done anywhere in Africa (we use credit cards fairly often in the countries where we can to make fairly large purchases off the local economy... we've done everything from leasing B7 armored vehicles in Somalia to purchasing a couple of dozen computers in Ghana to paying for large meals (more than 100 attendees) in Togo all on the credit card, with no problem (no request for additional fees, etc) in just the last 12 months (among many other transactions)..
 
We always keep it civil:

View attachment 675787
Bar none my favorite SNL skit ever...

I remember sitting in front of the TV with my dad.. when Akroid said that line.. he and I about fell off the couch laughing.. while my mom grew a look of horror on her face lol..
 
I would use a card. I don't care for carrying large sums of cash. I have seen some outfitters charge no upcharge at all for card, and some, like yours, charge around 3%. I have never heard of any outfitter charging more than the percentage processing fee they are charged by the credit card company.

I have never heard of any business in the world charging 20-35% extra because they have a gut feeling some customers might back out and reverse charges. Generally any business that feels that way would state outright that they don't accept credit cards.
 
I would use a card. I don't care for carrying large sums of cash. I have seen some outfitters charge no upcharge at all for card, and some, like yours, charge around 3%. I have never heard of any outfitter charging more than the percentage processing fee they are charged by the credit card company.

I have never heard of any business in the world charging 20-35% extra because they have a gut feeling some customers might back out and reverse charges. Generally any business that feels that way would state outright that they don't accept credit cards.

Just want to point out the tragic story of a hunter and PH being gored in Tanzania that was covered on this forum. The flight for life plane/chopper wouldn't make an attempt until paid in full by some convoluted means. Would hard currency in hand have expedited the attempt if a quick photo of the money with "come get me at these coordinates" was messaged back? Possibly.

However you pay, if you go to Africa, its always a good idea to have an emergency backup parachute with Benjamin Franklin's picture on it, metaphorically speaking.
 
My last trip to South Africa my PH and outfitter told us we could not pay in cash. Credit card or wire from my bank only. He said cash was a security risk.
 
You will need to compare the fee to send a wire to the 3% credit card surcharge and see which one makes more "cents". If you have an Airline Credit Card, even if the 3% is more then the wire fee it maybe worth the extra expense to gain extra miles with the charge. Figure each mile is worth 2 cents. (sometime more sometimes less).
 
Last edited:
Yep seems like every local restaurant wants 3.5% for using debit or credit card where I live.

In Africa I would clarify if credit card is an option, at the end of our hunt in Zimbabwe this past July one hunter in camp asked if he could pay his balance in full on the spot by credit card.

The outfitter simply does not take credit cards, we were given an invoice at the end of the hunt and had 10 days after our return to pay the balance by wire transfer.

I thought that was REALLY trusting of the Safari company to let $40K +/- of accounts receivable leave the country with the promise to pay upon returning home.

That's more than trust, that's crazy.

Good thread - i was just thinking through this for my trip this July.
Very much appreciate all the comments and questions.
 
What is the opinion of using a credit card to pay for your Safari ? Going to South Africa in August and have the option of paying at the end of the hunt. Would bringing cash be better?
Just be careful with American Express. I have surprisingly difficult to use. I use either VISA or MC
 
Myself I wire 100% day rates then when I get home I wire all trophy fees so CC only used at hotels. The one time I stayed at Afton they do not take Amex which was surprising
 
I paid my initial fees with credit card. Was charged an extra 3%, but 2% cash back so really only a 1% fee overall. My cc doesn't charge foreign transaction fees.

I'm only taking enough cash with me that I'm willing to loose or have stolen from me and it not ruin my trip. That amount of cash is for tips and incidentals. I will pay any remaining balance for extra animals and gun rental with credit card or wire transfer at the conclusion of my hunt.
 
Just for the record : They would be charging me a 3% fee. I way that against being robbed or other unforeseen circumstances. It’s my first trip and have no real experience with the outfitter. Didn’t mean to start a war !
I would ask YOUR outfitter what his price sheets look like if you pay cash. No one here can say what discount (if any) they may offer. Most SA outfitters have 3 or 4 price sheets, for different clients and scenarios. Then you will have an easy comparison to make with the credit card payment. I would still take cash for tips and extra costs you may incur along the way. Have fun and don't overthink it too much.
 
My little rural bank tells me they have NEVER sent a wire transfer to Africa. Not reassuring. And $10K in cash, the accepted limit, used to pay for a hunt........probably not anymore. Also, many operators don't take credit cards...and most don't have a US bank you can prepay at. Best of luck with whatever you decide.......FWB
 

Forum statistics

Threads
60,102
Messages
1,307,053
Members
109,996
Latest member
CeceliaMcN
 

 

 

Latest profile posts

Just Finished a great Buffalo and plains game combo hunt , pictures to follow soon!
MooseHunter wrote on Tyguy's profile.
Im interested in the Zeiss Scope. Any nicks or dings? Good and clear? I have on and they are great scopes
Available Game 2025!

White Wildebeest.
 
Top