COVID Border Closure Impact On Hunters & Outfitters

[jpr9954]

Jim Shockey wrote a very interesting article in Outdoor Life on the impact of COVID and the Canadian Government's closure of the border on hunters and hunting outfitters. While I knew of Jim as "that TV hunter" I forgot that he was also an outfitter. It gives both perspectives and there is a lot to chew on in the article.

Jim Shockey on the Real Trouble With the Border Closure: Here's Why It's Not So Easy to "Roll Over" Your Outfitted Canadian Hunt

Canadian outfitters, who rely on American clients, have suffered devastating blows due to the unprecedented border closure due to COVID-19.

www.outdoorlife.com

 

[Ridgewalker]

A “no win” for anyone. I truly feel for all the outfitters, but we all got hurt and we should all learn (if we didn’t already know) to have a contingency plan. When it comes to finance, whether a business or personal, you need at least 6 months operating capital. Unless of course your contingency is the government takes care of you. In that case don’t plan on having “the good life” in any way.

 

[Justbryan]

I did not have a Canadian Hunt booked but I have twice rescheduled a New Zealand Tahr, Chamois, and Rusa hunt. I have hunted with my outfitter before and I visit with him yearly at DSC. I want the best for him and whatever he needs from me is fine. I am not wealthy but this is discretionary funds and I consider him my friend!

I have to remind myself how luck my wife and I are to still have jobs. I can wait a year or two to book, lose my deposit, pay an inflationary fee, or come when re-opened.

I am blessed and want to help. I think most AH members are generous, kind, and patient.

 

[jpr9954]

A “no win” for anyone. I truly feel for all the outfitters, but we all got hurt and we should all learn (if we didn’t already know) to have a contingency plan. When it comes to finance, whether a business or personal, you need at least 6 months operating capital. Unless of course your contingency is the government takes care of you. In that case don’t plan on having “the good life” in any way.

As a financial planner in my day job, I agree with you 100% about the need for an emergency fund to cover six months worth of expenses. Businesses need to do the same or have business interruption insurance to transfer the risk.

 

[CoElkHunter]

Very interesting article and perspective. I really feel for the Canadian outfitters being at the mercy of their government's draconian COVID rules and regulations. Almost everything and everywhere south of the Canadian border is open with few/no restrictions, at least for now. To prohibit travelers into Canada who have had their vaccines is unnecessary and must be catastrophic to the tourism industry there.

 

[BSO Dave]

This article has only received a little over 300 views since OP posted it. I think it got lost in this section. I would have expected many more comments to date considering what I find to be very impactful and extremely controversial statements from Shockey. For as much respect as I used to have for Shockey, I think his perspective is way off the mark in terms of both the clients' and the outfitters' perspectives he opines upon. I'm also surprised that his comments have not created more controversy from the forum readers since I would assume the vast majority of folks here have been or soon will be hunting clients on outfitted hunts? The paragraph quoting Shockey in bold below is one I find the most troubling.

"Clients started calling the day the closure was announced. Most were civil, understanding. Most recognized that it wasn’t your fault, just “roll my hunt over to next year” they said, and you knew they thought they were being benevolent. You agonized and stressed over what to say to them. “I can’t?” Or Should you tell them that you already paid for most of the hunt costs associated with their hunt? Didn’t they realize that? And unless those clients paid for those expenses again, there was no way you could afford to take them in a following year? And what about the government quota for the game animals? The quota was for that lost season and even if you could figure out the logistics of taking two seasons worth of clients in one, the government wasn’t about to give you a double quota for the following year."

Regardless of how "horrible" and "unprecedented" the Covid situation has been for everyone, as it pertains to the outfitting business, "non-refundable deposits" are intended to protect the outfitter in a situation where the client cancels the hunt in such a manner as the outfitter cannot reasonably rebook the dates with other clients in a timely manner to recoup the loss. However, if the outfitter cannot deliver the hunt as promised, he is now the one responsible for the loss and associated costs. This is where the outfitter's insurance should kick in to cover camp investments and client deposits just as it would for a hunting client acquiring trip insurance to cover his ass in the unforeseen event of an emergency forcing him to cancel on his end..

At the end of the day, a business transaction was made. The outfitter has a legal obligation to deliver either a hunt or a refund. The notion that the outfitter owes the client nothing in the occurrence of an act of God (or government) beyond his control is a ridiculous notion, and an extremely poor business model destined to fail. The line he uses “I’m sorry, your hunt has come and gone?” is the one I find most disturbing. If the client fails to show, that's on them... If the outfitter fails to deliver a hunt, that's on them. Any other interpretation that the outfitter has no further obligation to his clients when he is the one who has failed to deliver regardless of the reasoning is pure bullshit!

If there are "quota" issues as Shockey mentions, that is something that needs to be worked out with the government and the outfitters to accommodate such and unprecedented and devastating situation. Quotas can be reasonably expanded for 1, 2 or even 3 years with little to no impact on well-managed units so as not to impact the game numbers. There are lots of things the government can do to remedy the situation they have put their citizens in. These outfitters have an obligation to fight for those solutions on behalf of their clientele as well as their own personal business futures. Sorry Jim... You got this one wrong..!

 

[flatwater bill]

A “tough luck, it’s not my fault” attitude will not help the hunting industry in the long run. Most clients that cancel have a reason that is also beyond their control. ...FWB

 

[curtism1234]

@BSO Dave excellent points

What expenses did you incur that are specific to my hunt? Food, no. Bush plane ride deposit, no. Scouting expenses, maybe, but that should fall under general operating expenses. Keeping your horses alive, general operating --- sell them and buy more next year...not my problem. If you cancel months in advance, the outfitter didn't spend a dime specifically on you. The deposit is more meant to discourage people from canceling last minute and therefor more accurately predicts the total income for the year.

 

[375 Ruger Fan]

I have had a BC moose hunt booked for a couple of years, with just a $1,000 deposit down. I was suppose to make a second deposit back in January, but the outfitter said they weren't going to require the second deposit until things opened up. I am scheduled to hunt in mid-October, so I am optimistic about getting to do this hunt.

I agree with @BSO Dave that Shocky's article is a bit off the mark.

I've worked in the oil industry all my adult life and "Force majeure" had to be factored into every facet of the business.

 

[Areaonereal]

I have never been much of a fan of Jim Shockey....I think his article in Outdoor life may be way to slanted toward his own interests..Capital expenditures are normally an investment over the long term and not an expense as he wants to state in the article. Just my take on the article.

 

[BSO Dave]

I've worked in the oil industry all my adult life and "Force majeure" had to be factored into every facet of the business.

You raise an interesting point in regard to the implication of "force majeure" into contracts. Shockey never specifically mentions that he or any other outfitters had provided their clients with contracts including specific force majeure stipulations. He refers to general seasonal expenses that an outfitter has already spent to justify the main reasons for non-delivery of the hunt as scheduled.

I personally have never seen a hunting contract that was so detailed as to offer specific force majeure stipulations such as fire, flood, acts of God, terrorism, pandemic, etc., to relieve the outfitter of his obligation to provide a hunt as agreed upon, but I suppose they are out there..? If anyone has one, I would like to hear about it. I can guarantee you that in the future, the case law from this is going to have a significant impact on hunting contracts and who bares the financial liabilities should the hunt not take place for these types of force majeure occurrences.

Let's say for example that you ordered an new pickup truck from a dealership pre-Covid, put down your deposit, signed the contract, arranged the financing, etc., and the dealership calls to inform you that due to Covid your truck is not able to be completed at the factory in 2021. Furthermore, because you ordered your truck in 2021, we do not owe you a refund of deposit or any truck at all even in 2022 or beyond. If you want a truck, you can put down a new deposit for 2022. Do you think the courts would rule in favor of the dealership even with force majeure stipulations in the buyer's agreement?

I'd also be interested to know if anybody had trip insurance and filed a claim due to hunt that was cancelled due to Covid? Many of these travel insurance companies put force majeure stipulations in their contracts as well to avoid paying claims which is pretty ironic because isn't an act of God beyond either party's control the entire reason for taking out insurance in the first place?

 

[Scott CWO]

@BSO Dave excellent points

What expenses did you incur that are specific to my hunt? Food, no. Bush plane ride deposit, no. Scouting expenses, maybe, but that should fall under general operating expenses. Keeping your horses alive, general operating --- sell them and buy more next year...not my problem. If you cancel months in advance, the outfitter didn't spend a dime specifically on you. The deposit is more meant to discourage people from canceling last minute and therefor more accurately predicts the total income for the year.

As a full time outfitter in the USA that also has a fully paid Dall’s sheep hunt booked in the Yukon for my son’s college graduation present, I do not agree with several of Shockey’s points. I see both sides but some of your comments are more ridiculous than Shockey’s.

Horses must be kept year-around for just a couple months of use. This is expensive. Your advice to just sell them and buy again later shows a complete lack of horse knowledge. Due to COVID, the demand for everything outdoors and horses have skyrocketed. A $1000 horse before CV is now $5000 or more. Besides that, an outfitter would NEVER sell his reliable, trained mountain horses if he plans to keep operating after CV. Good well-behaved horses don’t grow on trees and cannot be replaced easily. I buy two or three at a loss for every one I keep. They are not pickup trucks! They each have idiosyncrasies and issues, just like people. They are not machines you fill with fuel and drop into gear and drive. You are totally wrong.

Your lack of understanding of basic business principles and year-around business expenses shows a liberal lack of experience with running a business. I’m guessing you have a guaranteed government job where you EXPECT to be paid no matter what happens but private sector business owners are not afforded the same. How convenient for you!! Outfitters and all business owners incur expenses daily, even outside of their operating season. Ever hear of payments for insurance, worker’s comp, mortgages, rent, vehicle repairs, equipment repairs, government fees, vehicle insurance, vehicle registrations, hay/feed, utilities, website fees, cell phone bills, vet bills, etc…. ?? Any business owner knows it takes thousands of dollars a month just to keep a basic business going whether it’s your busy season or not. Quite frankly, the food and guide you would have used on your hunt are a small part of the expense of an outfitter.

My contracts do have an act of god clause but I have never used it even though I could. In 2020, our wilderness elk operation was 100% shutdown by the largest wildfire in Colorado history. Only one of our eight backcountry wilderness horse camps burned and two more ruined by snow but the Forest Service closed the entire area for the entire fall. These wilderness hunts account for about 1/3 of our revenue.

Luckily, we also offer private land elk, pronghorn, Plains private land deer, bighorn sheep, moose, mountain goat and mountain lion hunts in several parts of the state so we weren’t completely shut down but we might have been if our Governor and President Trump had overreacted like the wacky governors in MI, NY, CA, WA, Canada, etc… We DID rollover all our wilderness hunts 100% and are also incurring EXTRA costs of replacing camp gear that we were never allowed to pack out (either burned by fire or ruined by winter snow) and also the EXTRA costs this summer of trail clearing and trail repair from the fire’s affects. The Forest Service doesn’t have crews to do this for us or the public. Government is not the answer.

So, like I said, I probably have more experience on both sides of the coin than most people. I honestly don’t know what we would have done had our Governor and President Trump not allowed us to keep operating through CV, unlike your beloved Biden! I’m betting Biden wouldn’t have let us stay open, much like Trudeau. I guess we would have had to ask our clients to pay an additional surcharge to get us through, like some Canadian outfitters might. Most of our business is repeat and likely would have understood, unlike you!

 

[curtism1234]

@Scott CWO

My horse comment was obvouisly tongue in cheek.

Deposits are a small percentage of the expense bc they are not meant to be used as general operating money. I understand these difficult times and they probably were spent.

If I put a $1000 down on a hunt with the agreement if i cancel 6 months before that i get my money back and next month break my hip, I am entitled to my deposit back. The outfitter can not say "well last week I had to take a horse to the vet, we drove 100 miles to do it, and got a flat tire --- so I am sorry but I spent your deposit"

THAT IS STEALING

 

[BSO Dave]

@Scott CWO ,

I do understand that there are two sides to this God-awful shitshow, and that there are no perfect solutions. The examples you just provided of your actions regarding what you are doing to accommodate your clients affected by the Covid mess is reflective of an outfitter who is trying doing the right thing by your clients, and you should be commended for that.

What Shockey is implying is that Canadian outfitters have no obligation to provide a future hunt, share the financial impact, or look for compromising solutions which in my view is complete bullshit regardless of any circumstances, act of God or not. What he is suggesting may indeed be deemed "contractually legal" but is it ethical or moral to do so? There are always solutions provided one looks hard enough to find them. What Shockey is attempting to justify is a cop-out, and pretty despicable in my opinion.

One thing for sure is that a lot more folks will be reading the fine print on their contracts from now on, and it's going to impact the previous business models significantly. Good luck to any outfitter who has been in the practice of collecting the hunt paid in full prior to the client's arrival. There is no way in hell I would commit to that ever again.

 

[dobber]

One of the things i have a hard time wrapping my head around was all the hunts being offered to Canadian residents at a somewhat discounted price - and some of that is also done to short notice for the hunts - majority of big hunts are years in the planning not months.
I wanted to take advantage of some of these hunts (did manage a moose hunt last fall) but wasn't willing to gamble that it could be cancelled if the border opens up.
It rubbed a lot of people the wrong way, but also understand the need to try and fill the empty spots

 

[BSO Dave]

If I put a $1000 down on a hunt with the agreement if i cancel 6 months before that i get my money back and next month break my hip, I am entitled to my deposit back. The outfitter can not say "well last week I had to take a horse to the vet, we drove 100 miles to do it, and got a flat tire --- so I am sorry but I spent your deposit"

THAT IS STEALING

On this, we agree completely..!

 

[Scott CWO]

@Scott CWO

My horse comment was obvouisly tongue in cheek.

Deposits are a small percentage of the expense bc they are not meant to be used as general operating money. I understand these difficult times and they probably were spent.

If I put a $1000 down on a hunt with the agreement if i cancel 6 months before that i get my money back and next month break my hip, I am entitled to my deposit back. The outfitter can not say "well last week I had to take a horse to the vet, we drove 100 miles to do it, and got a flat tire --- so I am sorry but I spent your deposit"

THAT IS STEALING

It wasn’t tongue in cheek. Covering your ass now.

How do you know what deposits are meant for? All outfitters use deposits for everyday expenses. What else would they use?

Yes, if you make a deal to get your deposit back up to six months before your hunt, of course you should get it back. A deal is a deal. But if you think that your deposit wasn’t already spent, you’re a fool. The outfitter will use someone else’s deposit that recently booked to refund you. You obviously don’t understand basic cash flow in a business. Your deposit isn’t sitting in an escrow account somewhere, I assure you. It’s being used.

 

[Scott CWO]

As I said, I don’t agree with everything Shockey said. However, it also doesn’t take a genius to understand the basic math and economics of the situation we are all in. Outfitters do have costs whether we go hunt with them or not. Canadian concessions cost millions to buy, many thousands to operate and thousands more just to keep waiting for outfitting to resume. Clients of Canadian outfitters will likely be charged a surcharge or some outfitters will go broke and then everyone loses. I don’t like this situation anymore than you all but some people are not being realistic.

 

[BSO Dave]

How do you know what deposits are meant for? All outfitters use deposits for everyday expenses. What else would they use?

Again, with all due respect, maybe the outfitter should use the profitable income generated from the previous seasons to cover those expenses? Anything else is speculation is it not? I would think the main purpose of a hunt deposit is to provide a way for the client to secure the dates for a future hunt by pre-paying an amount significant enough to discourage the client from cancelling within a timeframe where you cannot reasonably fill the vacant dates. The deposit collected can certainly be used to help pay in part for any costs or investments by the outfitter that were necessary to facilitate your upcoming hunt, but I do no think deposits alone should be used as the main source for financing the total amount of expenditures for the upcoming season? By that business model, aren't you simply using the client's money as an interest-free loan to finance the upcoming season? In fact, in that circumstance, the outfitter could actually also make interest on any unused deposit funds.

Shockey's entire perspective is based on the premise that as an outfitter, nearly the entire cost of the client's hunt is already spent before the client even arrives. If that is indeed the case, that is a terrible business model, and I cannot see how that is sustainable. Apparently, if Covid is the example we are using, it is not sustainable, and it will be at the clients' expense. Yet, according to Jim's own explanation, he has only lost the the clients' money, not his own so I am puzzled why he is soliciting empathy?

 

[curtism1234]

@Scott CWO

I have been a bank manager for over 15 years. I know a thing or two about business...

I have no idea why you are butt hurt and have personally attacked me from the start of this thread, including some cryptic political shot aimed at me. I suspect this is a red herring regarding a political thread from 6 months ago.

Bye, Felicia