Considerations for rifle selection you should consider for hunting/SHTF rifle

[EricB]

You would think Ruger took over production of claymores by that warning label. I guess grunts were much smarter when I was in because eating a claymore never entered my mind, and I was pretty damn hungry at times!

Those are Marine use only claymores...

 

[Major Khan]

Major Khan, I remember very little about your war for independence. I was a paratrooper with the 82nd Airborne at the time and was put on alert for that war in the winter of 1971. We were in the field when put on alert and we had no clue about any of it. The question we all asked was whose side would we be on as we had no idea. Needless to say we didn't need to go which suited me. Can you expand a little on that war concerning India, Pakistan and Bangladesh.

I doubt we will have a wtshtf event in the somewhat near future where we need our arms to survive but stranger things have happened. Who would have thought we would be living as we are at the moment and that is world wide, I think. Also in the U.S. I think we are fairly polarized in our politics and the future is in a somewhat state of flux so I consider it good practice to be skilled and prepared for such events.

It is quite nostalgic to know that you were in the American Army at the time , dchamp .
Please allow me to break it down for you . During the British colonial era , Bangladesh and Pakistan were both parts of India . After 1947 , India won her Independence and Pakistan separated from India near 1948 . There were 2 parts of Pakistan : East Pakistan and West Pakistan . Despite being called Pakistan ... the people of East Pakistan and West Pakistan were very different in their ideologies . Examples include :
> People of East Pakistan considered Bengali to be their state language . People of West Pakistan considered Urdu to be their state language .
> Despite, both East Pakistan and West Pakistan consisting predominantly of Muslims .... their ideals were different .
East Pakistani people follow(ed) a far more liberal ( and in my opinion , sensible ) interpretation of Islam .
We liked our women to have open hair and not wearing those disgusting black burkha things . We liked music , Western clothes , cinema , art . We liked the freedom of men to be able to shave their beards off , if we wanted . West Pakistanis saw us , as " Heathens " .
We wanted secularism . The West Pakistanis wanted a constitution based largely on Shariah Law .That was a problem to our freedom .
> The government of West Pakistan were ( to put it shortly ) making policies that were crippling the economy of East Pakistan . Our primary source of economic revenue used to be textiles , jute and fish .

So , Sheikh Mujibur Rahman ( the gentle man who created Bangladesh ) began to lead a movement demanding that East Pakistan become independent from West Pakistan .
Of course , West Pakistan did not take too kindly to it . In January , 1971 .... they confiscated every single fire arm belonging to the East Pakistani civilians .
On 25th March .... West Pakistani General Tikka Khan ( " The Butcher Of Baluchistan " ) led " Operation Search Light " . This was one of the largest genocides on civilians to be conducted by a military in the 20th century in South East Asia .
They went from door to door gunning down anyone who could not speak Urdu . They specifically targeted colleges and universities , and their primary focus was on eradicating as many college professors and students that they could find .
They broke in to dormitories and hostels and butchered the males like hides of beef . Our women... Well , death would have been a kinder fate towards them .
Thousands ( yes , thousands ) of women were taken to the barracks and gang raped , before being killed. Pregnant women were impaled to death on bayonets .
The civilians who were smart enough not to hand over their fire arms , were actually the 1s who began to fire back at the West Pakistani soldiers at the earliest .
On the midnight of 26th March , Sheikh Mujibur Rahman declared war against West Pakistan . After 9 months of fighting ... West Pakistan agreed to withdraw it's forces from East Pakistan on the 16th of December . That day .... Bangladesh was born .
And yes , India did provide aid to Bangladesh. However , they had their own selfish motivations for doing so. Indira Gandhi predicted that Bangladesh would not survive long enough on it's own and would end up becoming a part of India in " less than a year . " .
What she did not expect ... Was that Mujib was determined to ensure that Bangladesh REMAINED independent .
America did side up with West Pakistan , during our Liberation War . However , none of us , freedom fighters hold anything against America . Mujib was great friends with Fidel Castro , Muamar Gaddafi and Joseph Stalin , despite not believing in communism himself . However , Americans ( understandably ) were worried that Mujib would turn Bangladesh in to a communist country if we had won the war . After all , the Vietnam War was just getting finished around that time and Americans did not want communism to spread at all ( nor should they ; it is a disease that ruins entire nations under the disguise of equality . )
I remember that we ( freedom fighters ) were extremely terrified of what might have happened if America deployed forces against us . West Pakistani army ... we could handle . American Army... not a chance in Hell ( and I feel no shame in honestly admitting this . )

I should add here that I was not born in Bangladesh / East Pakistan . I was born in Nagpur , India . In 1971 , I was conscripted in to the Indian Army Rangers and then got transferred to Bangladesh .By the time the war had ended .... I got shot in the face . By the time , I was fully clear to leave the hospital ... I realized that Indira Gandhi's government had banned hunting in India , as well as the ownership of imported fire arms and eating beef ( with meat eating in general , being treated as taboo by Indira Gandhi's vegan radical Hindu government . ) . Since all the freedom fighters from India who had served in the Bangladesh Liberation War , were offered free citizenship in Bangladesh by Sheikh Mujib... I decided to stay back in Bangladesh since 1972 . Hunting , fire arms ownership , meat eating .... These things are far too valuable to me to have continued living in India . @Panther Shooter was a Marks Man during the 1971 Bangladesh Liberation War and we became close friends towards the end of the war ( I was his commanding officer ) .
He moved to Bangladesh in 1975 .
@Kawshik Rahman and I used to be friends even before the Liberation War had begun ( since 1963 ) , because Kawshik used to be another professional shikaree . My outfitters was named , " Allwyn Cooper Limited " and was based in Nagpur , India. Kawshik's outfitters was named , " Sundar Raj Shikar Limited " and was based in Darjeeling , West Bengal . After listening to me and his other close friends ( who had also moved to Bangladesh ) ... Kawshik and his family moved to Bangladesh in 1979 .

Since hunting is legal in Bangladesh ( provided that you take permission from your local police DC and adhere to a pre determined bag limit ) ... it goes without saying that people like us are much happier here .
It may be a 3rd world country less than 50 years in to it's independence .... But we are proud of it . We fought for it and gave our blood .

I hope that this shall aid you in understanding a little about the Bangladesh Liberation War , dchamp.

 

[dchamp]

Thank you for your reply. That clears things up a lot. I imagine Indira Gandhi a strong reason for the large population of Sikhs we have here, at least here in California. Is India still under Hindu control and totally vegetarian or has it become more liberalized?

Sorry to get off topic everyone but I find this very interesting.

 

[Major Khan]

Thank you for your reply. That clears things up a lot. I imagine Indira Gandhi a strong reason for the large population of Sikhs we have here, at least here in California. Is India still under Hindu control and totally vegetarian or has it become more liberalized?

Sorry to get off topic everyone but I find this very interesting.

It has gotten a great deal worse , over the years , dchamp . India has recently passed a Bill named the Citizenship Amendment Bill 2020. This bill gives Muslims in the country an extremely difficult time . We used to have some amazing steak houses , prior to 1972 :
Imperial Restora , Koshy's Steak House , the " Only Place " . Butchers are now days publicly lynched by mobs of fanatical Hindu " animal rights " lunatics on a regular basis and the police do nothing to protect them . Recently , a Muslim butcher selling mutton had his shop burnt down. He was then stripped naked , force fed raw pork and then doused in pig's blood . The butcher was 70 years old . This incident ( and countless others ) have recently been covered by international media .
If you watch Indian cinema ( they make thousands of trashy films every year ) ...
then you shall see that if any character is a hunter , then they are always the villain . And if any character eats meat ... then they are either villains or prostitutes or characters who get " enlightened " and become vegetarians by the end of the film .
There are of course , countless sensible Hindus who love meat eating and hunting . Allwyn Cooper Limited's head shikaree , the great Rao Naidu of Hyderabad was 1 such example . He was a great man and was my mentor . Unfortunately , after 1972 ... these people became a dying breed . Most of them moved to other countries after 1972 .

 

[Von S.]

This time there might actually be some gunfire due to the new horrors at hand.

For decades I have been offering a modicum of mental relief (via firearm and ammunition sales) for the numerous horrors conjured up by the hopelessly paranoid that somehow they and theirs are going to be put upon by hoards of gun toting eagle eyed sharp shooters and gunslingers , all of whom are "good with the iron" all of whom are willing to fire their last shot of the 500,000 that they brought just to get that one airline bag of nameless peanuts that they heard you had squirreled away.

That must have been what was going through the head of a fella who asked for.......get this........20,000 rounds of jhp 9mm +p + and had credit card in hand.

And all that to be spit out of a single glock to secure his family's life against a paramilitary force ......... all of which are ex special forces..... dead set on killing him and his.......

.........give me a f-ing break.....

 

[mark-hunter]

Common, maybe he is just opening a new gun club?!

 

[shark_za]

In a night like the good General describes, a simple Glock with a few hundred rounds of ammo could make their ethnic cleansing plans slow down or you could take a few of the bastards with you at least.

 

[Newboomer]

You would think Ruger took over production of claymores by that warning label. I guess grunts were much smarter when I was in because eating a claymore never entered my mind, and I was pretty damn hungry at times!

And DO NOT eat them!

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View attachment 340974

 

[Chukar]

Those are Marine use only claymores...

You're on the watchlist now, along with the Zoomie.

It was claymore, not crayon.

 

[Panther Shooter]

Our women... Well , death would have been a kinder fate towards them .
Thousands ( yes , thousands ) of women were taken to the barracks and gang raped , before being killed. Pregnant women were impaled to death on bayonets
.

Major Sir
The most unsettling ones were the ones impaled on the bamboo stakes and not the bayonets . For some reason , all of the ones which we came across ,that were impaled on bayonets were always already dead by the time we came across them.
Before you were posted in Rajshahi, we actually came across one Gathar Maath in RUET University’s courtyard where at least four of the dying girls among the impaled corpses were still breathing even after being impaled on the bamboo stakes .
Joynul Sir had ordered us to shoot them and put them out of their misery .

 

[Major Khan]

Major Sir
The most unsettling ones were the ones impaled on the bamboo stakes and not the bayonets . For some reason , all of the ones which we came across ,that were impaled on bayonets were always dead by the time we came across them.
Before you were posted in Rajshahi, we actually came across one Gathar Maath in RUET University’s courtyard where at least four of the dying girls among the impaled corpses were still breathing even after being impaled on the bamboo stakes .
Joynul Sir had ordered us to shoot them and put them out of their misery .

Yes , because the bayonet is sharp, Panther Shooter . The victims were dying from shock too soon . A bamboo stake is more blunt , and I have seen one lady dying who had been impaled on a bamboo gathar maath about 5-6 days... prior to us coming across that area . She was almost completely dead by the time we had come across her .

 

[ornery]

I don't post very often, but I'd just like to say that this thread has gone right down the crapper,,,,,.02 cents.

 

[Hogpatrol]

I don't post very often, but I'd just like to say that this thread has gone right down the crapper,,,,,.02 cents.

I know. Talk about thread creep. YIKES!

 

[Rick Cox]

I know. Talk about thread creep. YIKES!

What were we talking about anyway??

 

[Ray B]

Something about Point-of-Sale Law & Order.

 

[mark-hunter]

That clears things up a lot. I imagine Indira Gandhi a strong reason for the large population of Sikhs we have here, at least here in California. Is India still under Hindu control and totally vegetarian or has it become more liberalized?

The question was not related to me, but I learnt of this, on this forum, much before pandemics:
https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...rine-sell-for-rs-500/articleshow/74669478.cms

 

[EricB]

You're on the watchlist now, along with the Zoomie.

It was claymore, not crayon.

I'm sure that's not the only watchlist I'm on....

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Well... 1st and fore most , you need to select calibres for which you know that you will be able to acquire ammunition and re loading components easily , especially in the long run .
The hand gun would have to be chambered in 9 mm Parabellum and the anti personnel rifle would have to be chambered in 5.56 NATO calibres .
This is because these calibres are utilized by NATO and thus .... in the ( hopefully unlikely ) scenario that civilization collapses , ammunition for these calibres would be the most in abundance .
In fact , I dare say that in a situation where civilization collapses .... if ANY production of ammunition does continue , then in all probability , it shall be ammunition for calibres utilized by NATO.
The general purpose hunting rifle should be chambered in 7.62×51 mm NATO for the very same reason .
The small game hunting rifle would invariably have to be chambered in .22 Long Rifle calibre . Every country in the world which allows fire arms ownership of private citizens , will allow legal ownership of .22 Long Rifle calibre weapons . Boxes of ammunition can easily be found in camps , rifle clubs and any sporting goods store in the entire world . Thus , it would be quite easy to stock pile .
The shot gun would have to be a 12 Bore , utilizing 3 inch chambers . This way , they can make use of any 12 Bore cartridges which the operator may be able to get his hands on ( 2.5 inch cartridges , 2.75 inch cartridges or 3 inch cartridges ) . If the operator got his hands of some 3.5 inch cartridges , then no bother . These can easily be cut to 3 inch length , with a little skill . 12 Bore ammunition would be extremely abundant , because ( aside from being available in sporting goods stores , camps , shooting clubs and the like ) ... it is also used by police forces and security companies through out the entire world . Thus , 12 Bore ammunition could easily be found .

The large game rifle would have to be a bolt rifle , chambered in .375 Holland & Holland magnum ... simply because it is extremely versatile and the most commonly available sporting rifle calibre , for which ammunition could be easily found off the shelf . Of course , I suspect that it would not be seeing as much use , as the other calibres which I have mentioned above .

The ideal anti personnel rifle in such as a fire scenario ... would have to be the Soviet Kolashnikov AK platform . During the Bangladesh Liberation War of 1971... I have personally witnessed 1st hand , how reliable the Soviet Kolashnikov AK platform can really be , even in dirty and muddy conditions .
The ideal hand gun ( in this context ) would have to be a Glock model , due to their reliability in harsh conditions .
The ideal general purpose rifle would have to be a Remington Model 700 bolt rifle ( in this context ) with a detachable box magazine . Alternatively , a Winchester Model 70 with a floor plate magazine would be pretty advantageous in it's its own right , as well. The operator does not need to worry about losing magazines . Synthetic stocks and stainless steel barrels are a massive + point , in this context .
The small game rifle should be equipped with a low power scope and a suppressor for quietly taking game for the pot .

The shot gun should either be a pump action or a basic break action ( which should be extremely simple and easy to keep maintained ) .

The large game rifle should have detachable telescopic sight mounts .

A really excellent rifle action in such dire contexts , would have to be the old British service Lee Enfield action . They can continue to keep functioning in " apple pie order " even after accumulating a great deal of dirt and grit . They are a control round feed action and have detachable magazines capable of holding 10 cartridges.
Well... I hope you found this useful . However , I also sincerely hope that you never need to put any of this to use ... like we actually had to , in 1971.

Friend Ponton
I applaud you decision of weapons but for the 7.62x51 I would have a Ruger gunscout with a long eye relief scope. It wouldn't matter if it was blued steel as you can get oil anywhere to stop it rusting. Even a bit of old engine oil wiped on the metal will help protect it.
While the AK is a beautiful simple and reliable weapon I would not recommend it as the average person doesn't have the skill to use it effectively even in 3 round burst.
They would more likely spray and pray that the hit something.
Accurate fire from a concealed position would be more beneficial and save ammunition.
The flock is a nice weapon but I personally prefer the Beretta 92s.
If 303 ammunition was readily available the you couldn't go past the SMLE battle proven and idiot proof.
Cheers my Friend
Bob Nelson

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Please , Rick... Just call me Poton . No formality is needed . I have tried subsonic ammunition for my .22 Long Rifle calibre Austrian semi automatic rifle quite a few times , actually . They are extremely useful for shooting doves or shooting pigeons on bait , near private properties where the noise may disturb the residents . However , these days I mostly use the Eley Brand .22 Long Rifle calibre ammunition which I have massive hoards of ( I have been stock piling Eley 12 Bore shot gun and .22 Long Rifle calibre ammunition for years) . They are not really that loud and most people in Bangladesh are desensitized to the noise , anyway .
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Friend Ponton
I had exactly the same model Voere as yourself. Mine would not function correctly with sub sonic ammunition but perfect with high velocity. They are extremely accurate for a semi outpatient.
Your friend Bob Nelson

 

[Pheroze]

If SHTF I will politely ask @Redleg if I can sleep in his bunkie with my 308Norma and await direction. Otherwise I am pretty much screwed. Good luck all.