Click BANG!!!

[86thecat]

One of the best tools I have found for reloading is a machinists stereo magnifier.
When primers are flipped up on the reloading tray, take a good look to see how consistent the primer mixture is in the cup. Some, like Fed, are full, others have the anvil visible, just looking for consistency.
Look at primer pocket to be sure there isn't powder residue in the corner that could cause a light primer strike. Lightly running a primer pocket cleaner/reamer thru should show a clean corner at bottom of pocket and allow you to judge if pocket is too deep.
Look at flash hole toward a light making sure it is clear and uniform.
Visually check powder level of all cases when in the reloading block, etc
Visual inspection is important and something factory ammo doesn't get.
Also hand reloading allows feel of things like how the primer seats, how the bullet seats and many other steps along rhe way.
I trust my reloads much, much more than I would trust any factory ammo. It's inspected at every step and if something goes wrong, that's on me - not because someone went ro work with a hangover or just didn't give a schist.
PS, Have read rhat benchrest primers are not only more consistent but get extra inspection at manufacture, so not a bad idea for DG hand loading.

If loading for the range, be careful. If going into harms way, load as if your life may depend on it

 

[Rez Exelon]

One of the best tools I have found for reloading is a machinists stereo magnifier.
When primers are flipped up on the reloading tray, take a good look to see how consistent the primer mixture is in the cup. Some, like Fed, are full, others have the anvil visible, just looking for consistency.
Look at primer pocket to be sure there isn't powder residue in the corner that could cause a light primer strike. Lightly running a primer pocket cleaner/reamer thru should show a clean corner at bottom of pocket and allow you to judge if pocket is too deep.
Look at flash hole toward a light making sure it is clear and uniform.
Visually check powder level of all cases when in the reloading block, etc
Visual inspection is important and something factory ammo doesn't get.
Also hand reloading allows feel of things like how the primer seats, how the bullet seats and many other steps along rhe way.
I trust my reloads much, much more than I would trust any factory ammo. It's inspected at every step and if something goes wrong, that's on me - not because someone went ro work with a hangover or just didn't give a schist.
PS, Have read rhat benchrest primers are not only more consistent but get extra inspection at manufacture, so not a bad idea for DG hand loading.

If loading for the range, be careful. If going into harms way, load as if your life may depend on it

I've been debating one of these to do closer inspections on components as well as jewelry and other small text stuff as my eyes start to get a little bit less than optimal for reading things in the mm or less size:

There's many options on Amazon ranging from 80-400ish if searching for "digital soldering microscope". I got to play with one a few months back and it was a pretty good tool.

 

[cajunchefray]

I've been debating one of these to do closer inspections on components as well as jewelry and other small text stuff as my eyes start to get a little bit less than optimal for reading things in the mm or less size:

View attachment 591471

There's many options on Amazon ranging from 80-400ish if searching for "digital soldering microscope". I got to play with one a few months back and it was a pretty good tool.

Now that is a useful tool. May have to get one, especially when checking primer pockets and flash hole.

 

[fourfive8]

If I am reading your description of the symptoms correctly, I think your original thoughts about a possible cause may be as good as any. I have hesitated getting into this because so often these discussions tend to get deep into the weeds quickly.

I think you are describing what most call a hang fire. Most hang fires are caused by some type of contamination- either in the flash channel, case or powder. Usually a primer is either dead or not dead. Some hagnfires can also be caused by a mismatch between primer and powder and/or loads that have very large quantities of very slow powder in cold conditions. I would not think it is a primer issue since you have not been able to cause them to fail. Also the CCI Magnum Primer is considered plenty hot to ignite most any normal power charge under normal ignition conditions.

I would proceed cautiously because of the SEE situation that can happen, that has been pointed out in another post in this thread. That type SEE is unpredictable. It is caused by the primer impulse pushing the bullet into the bore where the bullet stops before the main powder charge ignites. This SEE is believed to be a form of bore obstruction with an extreme pressure event.

I would make sure the cases are contamination free and completely dry. I would try a different powder because N165 is a very slow powder to begin with and may not be the easiest to ignite. I would consider a new can of powder that is known to be dry and is known to be suitable for this cartridge with published, pressure tested loads and has a slightly faster burn rate... like H4831SC. I'd also try not to set any pressure or velocity records with this cartridge. The idea of a big 50 is not speed anyway and certainly not high pressure! I think data that shows something in the 40K psi or less pressure range would be plenty adequate for a big 50 cartridge. Good luck and proceed cautiously.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I figured you and @Norfolk to be good friends as you know his gun collection. Well that and his wife's name isn't Cindy.

I hope to be able to make a trip to Australia to hunt and perhaps meet some of you AH Aussie characters over a beer...or several.

@Ridge Rubber
You would be more than welcome at my campfire or home. Dang I'll even give y'all an intro to Bundy and vegimite sandwich. I'll ever lash out and do a traditional seven course Australian baked dinner
A can of baked beans on toast and a six pack of beer.
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
Bib

 

[Philip Glass]

No one wants problems when it comes to a DG hunt. It is more than just yourself at risk. I understand why you feel reloads are a failure point.

I am not trying to change you mind, you have a valid point. Some people should not reload. The other side of the coin, people that know what they are doing will have a more reliable round than factory. For the most part, I am painting with a broad brush. Most that reload shoot more. Have better knowledge of what they and their rifle are capable of. I'm not saying that is a hard rule, it is something that I have noticed. Reloading is like any other craft, some should not do it. Others are good at it, they grasped the concept and make good ammo. They you have people that really go down the rabbit hole. Those people have many years of experience and have a very good understanding of what it take to make A+++ ammo.

So, I guess to pose the question a different way. If you had to have major surgery. Would you want a machine cutting on you? Or a surgeon who has had 30 years under his belt and had 1000s of successful surgery? That might not be the best analogy, it is a view that might help.

All good points and well taken. Sadly the fact is most reloaders are constantly tinkering and pushing boundaries. They are not experts they want to follow the crowd And think they must reload to be "in the club". They are rarely shooting anything but paper with their new loads and have no idea how they will work On game. If there were more like @norfolk shooter who load and shoot dozens of animals annually it would be better.
If you spend much time around true DG PH's you will get the stories of the reloads nearing getting people killed. Anyone remember the YouTube couple and the recent grizzly hunt? Or Martin Pieters leopard charge video here on AH?
I am fortunate to be able to grab a gun, head out the Door and go shoot something. I understand most people are stuck in an urban jungle and need something to do. I can't fix that.

 

[Rez Exelon]

All good points and well taken. Sadly the fact is most reloaders are constantly tinkering and pushing boundaries. They are not experts they want to follow the crowd And think they must reload to be "in the club". They are rarely shooting anything but paper with their new loads and have no idea how they will work On game. If there were more like @norfolk shooter who load and shoot dozens of animals annually it would be better.
If you spend much time around true DG PH's you will get the stories of the reloads nearing getting people killed. Anyone remember the YouTube couple and the recent grizzly hunt? Or Martin Pieters leopard charge video here on AH?
I am fortunate to be able to grab a gun, head out the Door and go shoot something. I understand most people are stuck in an urban jungle and need something to do. I can't fix that.

I suppose I'm one of the people in the urban jungle. And honestly I don't get out and hunt much to begin with even for stuff here in North America. My reloading strategy though is that I want to make the best quality stuff I can so that it kills the elusive "Paper Monsters" just as ethically as it would kill any game on the planet. This means consistency, testing, checking velocities, groups. Even then, the reality is that were I to travel across the planet, I'm probably going to grab from my stock pile of factory ammo if nothing else because it'd probably be easier to get it out of this country and into another, and that I'd be spending so much money to go it'd be penny wise and pound foolish not to invest the extra couple bucks.

But, out of the couple thousand rounds I churn out every year, they do all seem to turn out nice regardless of caliber. And they enable me to shoot more routinely with stuff that would otherwise be very cost prohibitive, assuming I could even find ammo for some of my more eclectic calibers.

 

[tarbe]

Sadly the fact is most reloaders are constantly tinkering and pushing boundaries. They are not experts they want to follow the crowd

Even Tesla and Einstein had to start somewhere!!

As to following the crowd...I did not think the crowd was handloading?

 

[Albert GRANT]

All good points and well taken. Sadly the fact is most reloaders are constantly tinkering and pushing boundaries. They are not experts they want to follow the crowd And think they must reload to be "in the club". They are rarely shooting anything but paper with their new loads and have no idea how they will work On game. If there were more like @norfolk shooter who load and shoot dozens of animals annually it would be better.
If you spend much time around true DG PH's you will get the stories of the reloads nearing getting people killed. Anyone remember the YouTube couple and the recent grizzly hunt? Or Martin Pieters leopard charge video here on AH?
I am fortunate to be able to grab a gun, head out the Door and go shoot something. I understand most people are stuck in an urban jungle and need something to do. I can't fix that.

I find it interesting when people form such strong opinions of handloaders/handloaded ammo. What is your first hand experience to have come to this conclusion? Making a generalized statement like "most reloaders are constantly tinkering and pushing boundaries" really puts the actions of the few onto a larger group as a whole. Tinkering- yeah I'll give you that, it's part of developing accurate loads and is the exact same process manufacturers go through when coming up with new loads. Pushing boundaries though- far less than a 50/50 split here- certainly not most. The vast majority of people I have talked to who load their own ammo do not want to blow themselves up and stay within published limits. There are a few (maybe as high as 1/4 to 1/3 of handloaders- but still far from MOST) out there who will do whatever they want to get what they are looking for, but eventually it comes back to bite them. I only hunt with my own loaded ammo now. I will not hunt with factory ammo unless I have no choice. In fact the only time I have had issues when shooting game has been with factory loaded ammo! To this point, I have not had a single issue with my own. I can make far more accurate ammo, that so far has been more reliable, than I can buy. As an added point, I used the PH's guns on my only Africa trip and we used his handloads for the entire trip. Shot 9 animals, never had an issue. Never doubted his ability to load safe, accurate ammo as it could have cost him dearly if there was an accident, but he was confident enough to let paying clients use it, so good enough for me. In short order- long before we even started hunting, I knew he was the type of people I did not have to worry about being careless. If your only experiences with handloaders have resulted in negative outcomes, perhaps you need to find better company.

 

[fourfive8]

I've been debating one of these to do closer inspections on components as well as jewelry and other small text stuff as my eyes start to get a little bit less than optimal for reading things in the mm or less size:

View attachment 591471

There's many options on Amazon ranging from 80-400ish if searching for "digital soldering microscope". I got to play with one a few months back and it was a pretty good tool.

Dang that looks like a handy tool! I can think of all kinds of uses. Could have really used that a couple of weeks ago for de-soldering and replacing a couple of components on the main board of my TV. Thanks for posting

 

[Philip Glass]

I find it interesting when people form such strong opinions of handloaders/handloaded ammo. What is your first hand experience to have come to this conclusion? Making a generalized statement like "most reloaders are constantly tinkering and pushing boundaries" really puts the actions of the few onto a larger group as a whole. Tinkering- yeah I'll give you that, it's part of developing accurate loads and is the exact same process manufacturers go through when coming up with new loads. Pushing boundaries though- far less than a 50/50 split here- certainly not most. The vast majority of people I have talked to who load their own ammo do not want to blow themselves up and stay within published limits. There are a few (maybe as high as 1/4 to 1/3 of handloaders- but still far from MOST) out there who will do whatever they want to get what they are looking for, but eventually it comes back to bite them. I only hunt with my own loaded ammo now. I will not hunt with factory ammo unless I have no choice. In fact the only time I have had issues when shooting game has been with factory loaded ammo! To this point, I have not had a single issue with my own. I can make far more accurate ammo, that so far has been more reliable, than I can buy. As an added point, I used the PH's guns on my only Africa trip and we used his handloads for the entire trip. Shot 9 animals, never had an issue. Never doubted his ability to load safe, accurate ammo as it could have cost him dearly if there was an accident, but he was confident enough to let paying clients use it, so good enough for me. In short order- long before we even started hunting, I knew he was the type of people I did not have to worry about being careless. If your only experiences with handloaders have resulted in negative outcomes, perhaps you need to find better company.

I am sorry y'all reloaders get all bent out of shape when I share my actual experiences with you. I've been on many different hunts and to Africa 20 times. I've spent countless hours around a campfire with some of the most seasoned professionals in the business. There is a common theme discussed and it is hunters who cant shoot and reloads. Y'all are simply not wanting to see the many examples of guns locking up or animals running away due to poorly made reloads. A few examples you may have seen on film were the Martin Pieters leopard charge here on AH and the now famous Youtube couple on their brown bear hunt. These dangerous scenarios went bad because of reloads that worked great at home but failed in the field.
Your RSA PH is not a good example. He actually kills animals every day with his reloads!
A majority of reloaders simply sit at the range with paper and a chronograph. Carefully hand loading each cartridge into the rifle. Looking at accuracy and velocity. "Working up a load" that shoots paper well under ideal circumstances. What happens when the temperatures rise and you have to rapid fire in a dangerous situation?
If you are going to reload you should come up with a recipe and stick with it for a few hunting seasons. Shoot some deer with it etc. Some will but most tinker right up until time to board the flight. Please don't do that!
Look guys, I advise scores of hunters each and every year. The ones that take my advice do well. The ones who don't often times stump their toe.

 

[Philip Glass]

Even Tesla and Einstein had to start somewhere!!

As to following the crowd...I did not think the crowd was handloading?

Tarbe it seems I'm the only one here who does not hand load! You make my point with your first sentence. Wanting to create something different and revolutionary would be fine for at the range but PLEASE don't take your latest and greatest recipe to Africa. This puts other people in danger in many cases.

 

[Rafiki]

I keep all primers and powder in a dehumidified cabinet, never had a hang-fire.

 

[Albert GRANT]

I am sorry y'all reloaders get all bent out of shape when I share my actual experiences with you. I've been on many different hunts and to Africa 20 times. I've spent countless hours around a campfire with some of the most seasoned professionals in the business. There is a common theme discussed and it is hunters who cant shoot and reloads. Y'all are simply not wanting to see the many examples of guns locking up or animals running away due to poorly made reloads. A few examples you may have seen on film were the Martin Pieters leopard charge here on AH and the now famous Youtube couple on their brown bear hunt. These dangerous scenarios went bad because of reloads that worked great at home but failed in the field.
Your RSA PH is not a good example. He actually kills animals every day with his reloads!
A majority of reloaders simply sit at the range with paper and a chronograph. Carefully hand loading each cartridge into the rifle. Looking at accuracy and velocity. "Working up a load" that shoots paper well under ideal circumstances. What happens when the temperatures rise and you have to rapid fire in a dangerous situation?
If you are going to reload you should come up with a recipe and stick with it for a few hunting seasons. Shoot some deer with it etc. Some will but most tinker right up until time to board the flight. Please don't do that!
Look guys, I advise scores of hunters each and every year. The ones that take my advice do well. The ones who don't often times stump their toe.

First of all, I wasn't "bent out of shape", simply stating what I have personally witnessed, first hand over many years of doing this. As far as tinkering with a load until the time you leave for a hunt? I whole heartedly agree with you on that one. They should have long since come to a decision and have shot and function tested it in all conditions, for weeks before going on a hunt. Those that don't are foolish. However, lumping that into a majority as a whole is still poor practice. Maybe most hunters (that reload) you and your aquaintances have seen have had issues- If on your travels YOU PERSONALLY have seen this the majority of the time, and not just heard it from your PH buddies, then I can understand why you have this belief. I'll bet there are a minimum of a couple dozen members on here who could prove to you otherwise, live and in-person with real world results you could witness for yourself.

It's funny you mention my PH being a different case because it's his work. He was far less detailed with case prep than most reloaders I am aquainted with. Clearly it works for him and might for all of us, but the point is, I myself would have been far more meticulous about my loads than these. They all worked fine and he was clearly confident in them. I asked a few questions, did some shooting and was satisfied.

I would assume the guys you have seen (heard about) are the same ones that shoot like shit and keep saying they can't understand what happened when they get "the look" from the PH. Would you also then say that MOST traveling hunters can't shoot and should just have the Professional (i.e. factory ammo) do it for them? It is the exact same set of circumstances with a change of variables. My guess is, you would not make this statement so why choose to do so in this case?

For what it's worth I have shot many animals with my own loads. Yes, the majority of the time I only need one shot to make it happen, but on the odd occasion when I have had to make a quick follow up, I have had no function issues. How is this possible with reloads? I test everything- I hand weight each load to the tenth of a grain, one at a time. I check each one to ensure the exact same OAL. I run each round through the gun before putting it in the box for use. I do not push loads to the absolute limit so that if there is a temp change that affects it, I'm not overcharged. It's not hard to do, and I still believe the majority of handloaders/reloaders who do it mainly for hunting purposes are doing the same. Competition shooters, long range shooters, etc.- possibly not checking function and likely tweaking loads right up to match time, but possibly some of these are ones who choose to go on a hunt when hunting isn't their focus and end up having these issues- I'm not sure.

All I know is that the vast majority of those I personally deal with are people with a hunting focus and wouldn't be caught dead shooting iffy un-tested loads at animals. Maybe I'm just lucky with who I've come across, maybe I am part of a miraculous few after all, who can make it work just the same as the factory without needing the "professionals" help......

 

[Bert the Turtle]

Primer holes good? Some kind of manufacturing error with undersized holes could maybe cause the problem?

 

[IvW]

Fed 215 in that size case will solve the problem....

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Tarbe it seems I'm the only one here who does not hand load! You make my point with your first sentence. Wanting to create something different and revolutionary would be fine for at the range but PLEASE don't take your latest and greatest recipe to Africa. This puts other people in danger in many cases.

@Philip Glass
I took my latest and greatest reloads to Namibia.
But they were tested in the field and used in temperatures similar to or hotter than the area we hunted. All the loads I took were made with virgin brass out of the same bag I developed my loads with. I had zero problems. I suppose that comes from doing things properly.
Bob

 

[cajunchefray]

I keep all primers and powder in a dehumidified cabinet, never had a hang-fire.

THIS.

Just like quality food ingredients, control and maintain the temperature, humidity, and UV light, for powder and primer storage. Hell, I even store my brass and bullets in the same way.

You are good to go for the reasonable expectation of shelf life.

I maintain storage conditions of all of the above (food ingredients, powder, primers, brass, bullets) between 40-80 degrees F, humidity below 55%, no UV light.

I keep the powder and primers in wooden boxes to minimize temperature and humidity changes. We have a lot of changing conditions here in the swamps of South Louisiana.

I am still loading, with 25-year-old powders, .35 Whelen with IMR-4064, and .44 Special with Hercules 2400 powder. They still perform to specs, every time.

Safe loading and shooting,

Charles Ray

 

[Philip Glass]

First of all, I wasn't "bent out of shape", simply stating what I have personally witnessed, first hand over many years of doing this. As far as tinkering with a load until the time you leave for a hunt? I whole heartedly agree with you on that one. They should have long since come to a decision and have shot and function tested it in all conditions, for weeks before going on a hunt. Those that don't are foolish. However, lumping that into a majority as a whole is still poor practice. Maybe most hunters (that reload) you and your aquaintances have seen have had issues- If on your travels YOU PERSONALLY have seen this the majority of the time, and not just heard it from your PH buddies, then I can understand why you have this belief. I'll bet there are a minimum of a couple dozen members on here who could prove to you otherwise, live and in-person with real world results you could witness for yourself.

It's funny you mention my PH being a different case because it's his work. He was far less detailed with case prep than most reloaders I am aquainted with. Clearly it works for him and might for all of us, but the point is, I myself would have been far more meticulous about my loads than these. They all worked fine and he was clearly confident in them. I asked a few questions, did some shooting and was satisfied.

I would assume the guys you have seen (heard about) are the same ones that shoot like shit and keep saying they can't understand what happened when they get "the look" from the PH. Would you also then say that MOST traveling hunters can't shoot and should just have the Professional (i.e. factory ammo) do it for them? It is the exact same set of circumstances with a change of variables. My guess is, you would not make this statement so why choose to do so in this case?

For what it's worth I have shot many animals with my own loads. Yes, the majority of the time I only need one shot to make it happen, but on the odd occasion when I have had to make a quick follow up, I have had no function issues. How is this possible with reloads? I test everything- I hand weight each load to the tenth of a grain, one at a time. I check each one to ensure the exact same OAL. I run each round through the gun before putting it in the box for use. I do not push loads to the absolute limit so that if there is a temp change that affects it, I'm not overcharged. It's not hard to do, and I still believe the majority of handloaders/reloaders who do it mainly for hunting purposes are doing the same. Competition shooters, long range shooters, etc.- possibly not checking function and likely tweaking loads right up to match time, but possibly some of these are ones who choose to go on a hunt when hunting isn't their focus and end up having these issues- I'm not sure.

All I know is that the vast majority of those I personally deal with are people with a hunting focus and wouldn't be caught dead shooting iffy un-tested loads at animals. Maybe I'm just lucky with who I've come across, maybe I am part of a miraculous few after all, who can make it work just the same as the factory without needing the "professionals" help......

Maybe spending more time around the fire in Africa more of the stories would come out for others. I've been there.
i do understand we have some very professional reloaders here on AH. Most are not. I just saw a post on FB and the guy was still tinkering 2 weeks from his safari! I am certain this is common although maybe not among as many of our fellow AH'ers.
To each his own.

 

[Philip Glass]

@Philip Glass
I took my latest and greatest reloads to Namibia.
But they were tested in the field and used in temperatures similar to or hotter than the area we hunted. All the loads I took were made with virgin brass out of the same bag I developed my loads with. I had zero problems. I suppose that comes from doing things properly.
Bob

Yes sir!