Cleaning rod or bore snake?

[JimP]

As for a cleaning rod damaging the crown of the barrel, it happens.

My nieces husband had a 7mm08 that shot lights out for years then after sitting in the safe for a couple of years the groups opened up to 3"+. He tried everything, the manufacturer offer to sell him a new one, a couple of smith's said that he needed a new barrel. He finaly took it to a smith that knew what he was doing. He re-crowned the barrel and it was back to shooting 1/2moa groups.

The factor was that he had been taught to clean using a rod from the muzzle without a guide

 

[HankBuck]

I literally put 10,000+ rounds through my Silver Pigeon III always using a bore snake after shooting. When trading up for a new DT11 my Beretta dealer asked if I even ever shot the Silver Pigeon, declaring the bores “pristine”. So I went out and purchased snakes in every rifle caliber I own.

@Fixfire - I see many skeet shooters at our club now using the “bore snakes”, especially the past 10-12 years, they are quick and can be done right on your truck tailgate….does a good job.
I think cleaning a shotgun is much simpler then a rifle - especially the bore, not much pressure building up in a shotgun barrel and No copper build up to deal with, No rifling to wear out, damage, or pit. For rifles I’m gonna stick to nylon brush on a good Nylon coated rod and use a copper solvent than a light oil patch. Been told You should never use a Bronze brush with a Copper solvent (not sure about Brass rods?). I don’t enjoy cleaning my rifles but I rarely shoot them (compared to shotguns) so a few extra minutes is reasonable. I would use bore snake in the field or on a trip - small, compact to carry and easy/fast to use.

 

[Inline6]

You gents do realize whatever you are "washing" the bore snake in. You are contaminating that apparatus and whatever else might be in it with toxic materials. I'm sure all of you know how bad lead is.

 

[skydiver386]

A boresnake is fine for shotguns with smooth bores, but pistols and rifles with rifled bores are another matter. A barrel that has a rough bore from the factory will scrape more material from the bullet as it passes through the bore, and it will have more tool marks and gouges, providing space for copper deposits that are hard to clean.

This is what patches will look when a quality ammonia based bore cleaner is used. The first patch will have powder fouling, then each successive patch should have less and less copper. A smooth true match grade barrel that has been hand lapped to a mirror finish will usually take no more than 10 passes with solvent soaked patches. A rough bore, as shown in the video, can take 50 or 60 before they come out clean.

Hammer forged barrels tend to be very rough compared to button rifled or cut rifled and hand lapped barrels. Moly coated bullets were popular a few years ago, and they did fill in some tool marks left inside the barrel, but presented cleaning problems of their own.

 

[C.W. Richter]

As one who previously disassembled and "scrubbed the hell out of" guns upon every session using old-school methods, I consider the bore snake one of the greatest inventions EVER. Take a look down that pipe after cleaning (it's clean and shiny!) Also highly portable, such that cleaning after hunting afar or at the range prior to using the dining room table at home is quite the pleasure. As one who used to completely disassemble guns for a "good scrubbing" after use, and found that 750 yd shots could be consistently made using "just" the boresnake, I became sold on these gems. I can understand breaking out the ole J. Dewey on your competition, longer range, coated bullets, too many solids/copper pills down the tube (even using CR-10 acid solution,) but the fact remains that the 'snakes work.

I have cleaned my prized shooters using both traditional and modern serpentine methods and have noticed ZERO effect on accuracy. What I have a problem with is using the ole cleaning rod on Pumps, prized old rimfires where bolt removal is a PIA, Semis, etc. and I'm not a fan of pushing the copper/lead et. al. combusted organic sludge INTO the chamber, magazine and action, FROM the muzzle, so again the 'snakes win!

**Once upon a time, favoring the latest, greatest moly coated and all copper bullets, barrels would get loaded up on frequent flyer (long range target, varmint) guns. For them, Mr. Dewey would pay visits. But for LRX, traditional hunting bullets (Swift, NPs), solids and even TTSXs not shot in droves, again the snakes work well. Not all boresnakes are the same...they have 'em with 1, 2 and 'even saw one with 3 brushes. It's just a matter of the number of passes depending upon how many brushes they have. The deluxe models have a larger loop at the end which I believe does a better job of mopping up. I DO use chamber cleaning brushes on rifles in addition, as the boresnakes can't work their magic on larger diameter bottleneck cartridge (i.e. WSMs, et. al.) chambers or fancier recessed muzzles. The snakes can also do a decent job of cleaning/lubing the rear receiver area. Just make a couple passes on the top/bottom/sides and "Presto!" Always wear latex gloves when cleaning guns because Cancer is no bueno, no fun, and not a joke. (With the boresnakes, you're directly touching the contaminated cleaning apparatus with each pass.) Enjoy cleaning/lubing no matter what your preference. I WAS traditional, but now 90% synthetics. I've never witnessed a plastic rope mess up a crown, nor do I think the "muzzle protector" (aka needless widget) understands the concept of rockwell hardness of dissimilar metals in an exceedingly low friction, low velocity environment . LOL Perhaps they'll sell entire bore protectors next (because those bullets are hell on 'em!) BTW the Dewey rods are coated (many are synthetic) so it's a muzzle/bore protector all-in-one!

 

[Ontario Hunter]

You gents do realize whatever you are "washing" the bore snake in. You are contaminating that apparatus and whatever else might be in it with toxic materials. I'm sure all of you know how bad lead is.

Lead occurs naturally in the environment and is only toxic to humans in fairly heavy doses. Otherwise we would not have survived as a species. Children, pregnant women, and small pets may be more vulnerable to lead poisoning. However, the amount of lead that would be washed clean from a bore snake is miniscule. If everyone in town was washing their bore snake every day, I seriously doubt it would present any challenges to the waste water treatment plant.

 

[HankBuck]

You gents do realize whatever you are "washing" the bore snake in. You are contaminating that apparatus and whatever else might be in it with toxic materials. I'm sure all of you know how bad lead is.

@Inline6 - lead is bad? Maybe, but it was the very BEST paint ever, for a long lasting outdoor House paint - nothing was better then a good lead-based paint…but then someone had to go and “eat it” - now all we have left in water based or oil based.

 

[Inline6]

Lead occurs naturally in the environment and is only toxic to humans in fairly heavy doses. Otherwise we would not have survived as a species. Children, pregnant women, and small pets may be more vulnerable to lead poisoning. However, the amount of lead that would be washed clean from a bore snake is miniscule. If everyone in town was washing their bore snake every day, I seriously doubt it would present any challenges to the waste water treatment plant.

@Inline6 - lead is bad? Maybe, but it was the very BEST paint ever, for a long lasting outdoor House paint - nothing was better then a good lead-based paint…but then someone had to go and “eat it” - now all we have left in water based or oil based.

You can do what you want, their are some here that don't think about the aspect. You want heavy metal poisoning go for it.

As far as paint goes, how much red tape is their to remove it now? If it wasn't a big deal, we would not have all the safety protocols to follow.

 

[HankBuck]

You can do what you want, their are some here that don't think about the aspect. You want heavy metal poisoning go for it.

As far as paint goes, how much red tape is their to remove it now? If it wasn't a big deal, we would not have all the safety protocols to follow.

@Inline6 - removal of Lead Paint is like Gun Control - exaggerated Hysteria and unnecessary….just don’t Eat it or “snort it” more then once a day. But mitigating something that needs No mitigation (like gun control) has become a big business and a political “cause”. Obviously this is my opinion and I have Zero qualifications to make these comments —-which most already figured out. But I don’t think I’m that far off…

 

[Ontario Hunter]

You can do what you want, their are some here that don't think about the aspect. You want heavy metal poisoning go for it.

As far as paint goes, how much red tape is their to remove it now? If it wasn't a big deal, we would not have all the safety protocols to follow.

The ban on lead paint and lead gasoline additives was specifically to address poisoning in children. Infants and toddlers were chewing on their lead painted cribs (also known as "cribbing" when nervous race horses chew on their stalls) or eating lead flakes from wall paint. And children living next to California freeways were picking up dangerous levels of lead poisoning from automotive air pollution. Ban on lead shot was directed at protecting waterfowl that, like human children, are exceptionally vulnerable. Unlike a coyote that might pick up a piece of lead shrapnel eating deer carrion and pass the toxin through its digestive system in short order thereby actually absorbing very little, a duck that scoops lead shot in wetland muck will retain it in the gizzard until it's literally ground to soup. The duck thus has the potential to absorb extremely high levels of lead from shot that other wetland lead shot ingesting animals would not. Surprisingly, even raptors who eat the ducks carrying lead shot are less at risk because they don't have a gizzard, although they certainly can be at risk if consuming enough lead shot/shrapnel as the case of the disappearing California condor at Grand Canyon has shown.

It was my job as a biology teacher and park ranger to explain these things and dispel the myths. Again, though lead is a "toxic substance," it's only toxic in levels considered dangerous per unit of body mass. Some naturally occurring "toxic substances" are in fact also "essential elements" for humans, cadmium for example. We require the poisonous stuff in our environment, albeit at very low levels.

 

[Phil Giordano]

Cleaning rod AND Bore snake.
The first for at-home, accurate, deep cleaning with all the stuff like cleaning solvents an so on - once every X shots, depending on caliber and shooting routine.
The second, for camp use, or after just few shots.

 

[C.W. Richter]

You can do what you want, their are some here that don't think about the aspect. You want heavy metal poisoning go for it.

As far as paint goes, how much red tape is their to remove it now? If it wasn't a big deal, we would not have all the safety protocols to follow.

i'm in the business. Lead IS bad. The EPA Max. Contaminant Level Goal is 0 in drinking water. It ruins your CNS and additionally causes cancer in small, repeated doses. I could go on and on about it (and I've had high exposures once upon a time, early on in my career. Luckily it does eventually leave your body, with or without damage depending upon circumstances,) but there are many other toxics related to bullets/powders/primers-mercury, chromium, copper way above macronutrient levels, (lead/zinc in brass) other inorganics plus burned/unburned organics...it's not good to ingest, inhale or be dermally absorbed. Why mechanics (akin to shooting, reloading, gun cleaning) that don't use gloves/exhaust fans typically and eventually get sick (very same contaminants in waste oil and exhaust once upon a time). Anytime I hear of a famed shooter checking out early (not due to DG accidents), the aforementioned comes to mind...Sure, they could've eaten too much red meat, drank too much, and smoked-but they sure as hell inhaled/ingested/dermally absorbed the many toxics in munitions. Have a healthy respect for 'em and your grandchildren will be glad you did!...

 

[C.W. Richter]

Inline6 you like diesels? I do! Many friends have died from lung cancer working in big railyards (breathing it in all day long, their entire careers.) It's better now than it was then (w/ the DEF, DPFs etc. that so many cry about-it's just more expensive!)

 

[Ontario Hunter]

Inline6 you like diesels? I do! Many friends have died from lung cancer working in big railyards (breathing it in all day long, their entire careers.) It's better now than it was then (w/ the DEF, DPFs etc. that so many cry about-it's just more expensive!)

How many of those guys who worked in the railyard and died of lung cancer didn't smoke or eat lunch every day for forty years in a lunchroom full of smokers? I worked for years in an aluminum reduction plant. Plenty of toxins in that environment but I can only recall one guy with emphysema who didn't smoke cigarettes. But he sure breathed enough of the smoke during breaks around coworkers. All coworker cancer deaths that I can recall were smokers.

 

[C.W. Richter]

How many of those guys who worked in the railyard and died of lung cancer didn't smoke or eat lunch every day for forty years in a lunchroom full of smokers? I worked for years in an aluminum reduction plant. Plenty of toxins in that environment but I can only recall one guy with emphysema who didn't smoke cigarettes. But he sure breathed enough of the smoke during breaks around coworkers. All coworker cancer deaths that I can recall were smokers.

It's dynamic and DNA and lifestyle dependent but when you have your face in an engine bellowing out burned and unburned numerous carcinogenic petroleum hydrocarbons you're apt to have problems. I won't even get into working inside certain factories day in and day out. Would be interesting to know how many that were Hands-On in the aluminum industry suffer from such things as Alzheimer's! Every toxin has its end goal in our bodies.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

The ban on lead paint and lead gasoline additives was specifically to address poisoning in children. Infants and toddlers were chewing on their lead painted cribs (also known as "cribbing" when nervous race horses chew on their stalls) or eating lead flakes from wall paint. And children living next to California freeways were picking up dangerous levels of lead poisoning from automotive air pollution. Ban on lead shot was directed at protecting waterfowl that, like human children, are exceptionally vulnerable. Unlike a coyote that might pick up a piece of lead shrapnel eating deer carrion and pass the toxin through its digestive system in short order thereby actually absorbing very little, a duck that scoops lead shot in wetland muck will retain it in the gizzard until it's literally ground to soup. The duck thus has the potential to absorb extremely high levels of lead from shot that other wetland lead shot ingesting animals would not. Surprisingly, even raptors who eat the ducks carrying lead shot are less at risk because they don't have a gizzard, although they certainly can be at risk if consuming enough lead shot/shrapnel as the case of the disappearing California condor at Grand Canyon has shown.

It was my job as a biology teacher and park ranger to explain these things and dispel the myths. Again, though lead is a "toxic substance," it's only toxic in levels considered dangerous per unit of body mass. Some naturally occurring "toxic substances" are in fact also "essential elements" for humans, cadmium for example. We require the poisonous stuff in our environment, albeit at very low levels.

Correction: the potentially toxic essential element example should be cobalt, not cadmium.

 

[Corey0372]

When I was still in my rifle cleaning kit (for M4s) basically boiled down to..

-Bore snake
-Rag
-AP brush
-Small brass scraper for removing carbon from bolt, BCG, etc
-CLP

Rarely used cleaning rods, but they're still useful in the field for clearing stuck cases and such

Bore snakes are excellent in my opinion.

One thing to keep an eye on though is to always ensure your pull string never has knots in it.

I've remeber hearing from our Armory one time of a barrel having to be tossed bc someone managed to get the cord into the barrel a couple inches (wedged in nicely) and it not coming back out.

 

[C.W. Richter]

Lead occurs naturally in the environment and is only toxic to humans in fairly heavy doses. Otherwise we would not have survived as a species. Children, pregnant women, and small pets may be more vulnerable to lead poisoning. However, the amount of lead that would be washed clean from a bore snake is miniscule. If everyone in town was washing their bore snake every day, I seriously doubt it would present any challenges to the waste water treatment plant.

I would advise against washing bore snakes in the dishwasher lol as you'll be consuming all those wonderful toxins off your dishware. Unfortunately it all doesn't magically disappear in the rinse cycle. Albeit at low concentrations, it's still not worth the risk considering the cumulative effects with other toxins you unknowingly ingest and or inhale everyday.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

It's dynamic and DNA and lifestyle dependent but when you have your face in an engine bellowing out burned and unburned numerous carcinogenic petroleum hydrocarbons you're apt to have problems. I won't even get into working inside certain factories day in and day out. Would be interesting to know how many that were Hands-On in the aluminum industry suffer from such things as Alzheimer's! Every toxin has its end goal in our bodies.

I seem to recall the myth about aluminum cookware causing alzheimers was blown out of the water years ago. I am now in the aluminum plant age group that is post seventy years and offhand I can't recall any significant number of my coworkers with alzheimers (and I didn't start work there until twenty years after the plant was built). The frequency of alzheimers among the plant workers does not appear to be remarkably different from those in the community who worked in the sawmills or forest industry.

 

[HankBuck]

I seem to recall the myth about aluminum cookware causing alzheimers was blown out of the water years ago. I am now in the aluminum plant age group that is post seventy years and offhand I can't recall any significant number of my coworkers with alzheimers (and I didn't start work there until twenty years after the plant was built). The frequency of alzheimers among the plant workers does not appear to be remarkably different from those in the community who worked in the sawmills or forest industry.

@Ontario Hunter - you stated above that you “CAN”T RECALL” coworkers getting Alzheimer’s ?? That’s a “symptom” right there !! Be careful