Choke preference

[Daisy]

DAISEY & redleg: my bet or “hunch” is that neither of you shoot registered NSCA Sporting Clays, are not Classified above “C” level but are likely above average field shots on winged game. Here’s why I believe this - I’ve Never, ever heard a good competitive shooter “brag” about their shooting - the score sheet says it all. Also, Top shooters rarely switch chokes and most shoot modified or IC & Mod for entire courses. I do agree what one of you said - you Never miss because you select the wrong choke ….chokes affect your pattern by “inches” and most targets are missed by FEET. But, I’m never gonna BET and shoot against anyone —- I’m just Not good enough

All correct!

 

[HankBuck]

I used to twist choke tubes all the time. IC/Mod for pheasants, SK/IC for quail, IM/Full for waterfowl. Then I bought a 1923 LC Smith 20 with 2 1/2” chambers and IC/MOD chokes. I quickly realized unless your hunting turkeys or sky busting geese, all you will ever need is IC/MOD. I quit twisting chokes years ago, and all my guns with chokes wear IC/MOD. Than again, I’m not really a serious shotgun man.


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You are SPOT ON

 

[rookhawk]

DAISEY & redleg: my bet or “hunch” is that neither of you shoot registered NSCA Sporting Clays, are not Classified above “C” level but are likely above average field shots on winged game. Here’s why I believe this - I’ve Never, ever heard a good competitive shooter “brag” about their shooting - the score sheet says it all. Also, Top shooters rarely switch chokes and most shoot modified or IC & Mod for entire courses. I do agree what one of you said - you Never miss because you select the wrong choke ….chokes affect your pattern by “inches” and most targets are missed by FEET. But, I’m never gonna BET and shoot against anyone —- I’m just Not good enough

Having spent a bit of time over the years at Northbrook, I can say I’ve seen a lot of A and B class shooters out there swapping chokes. It’s actually annoying and ruins what was otherwise a wonderful walk in the woods of their FITASC courses. There are some presentations that are quite difficult, 70 yard outbound crossers, etc. They love to go to the fulls or better for those. I’ve never been that interested in competition, so I just take the score I earn, usually with SxS fixed chokes. (I’m a hunter that putters on clays when the weather is nice and I have a cigar). I will say, I have bested a few phenomenal shooters on their off days by shooting a double trigger gun. Being able to shoot reverse chokes quickly gave me an edge, one that made me wonder why they wouldn’t make modern sporting guns with two triggers for the flexibility?

 

[HankBuck]

I’ve done some pretty extensive testing on chokes and have found that ported chokes open up a pattern 100% of the time over the same constriction choke without ports.

One plus of the ports is will reduce felt recoil a little but at the price of reducing the effective range. As long as you pattern your shotgun, load, choke and distance and it’s acceptable to you…go for it.

BEE, that is interesting and I would've never known that ported chokes affect pattern? But I Now have no need to ever test that ported choke because YOU test everything more thoroughly then NASA. Why hasn’t Briley or Carlson “Sponsored YOU”? I trust You more then their advertising or Guns & Ammo magazine

 

[HankBuck]

Having spent a bit of time over the years at Northbrook, I can say I’ve seen a lot of A and B class shooters out there swapping chokes. It’s actually annoying and ruins what was otherwise a wonderful walk in the woods of their FITASC courses. There are some presentations that are quite difficult, 70 yard outbound crossers, etc. They love to go to the fulls or better for those. I’ve never been that interested in competition, so I just take the score I earn, usually with SxS fixed chokes. (I’m a hunter that putters on clays when the weather is nice and I have a cigar). I will say, I have bested a few phenomenal shooters on their off days by shooting a double trigger gun. Being able to shoot reverse chokes quickly gave me an edge, one that made me wonder why they wouldn’t make modern sporting guns with two triggers for the flexibility?

ROOKHAWK, I started on a SxS with double triggers and easy to learn on but never was able to switch triggers on a “covey rise” or most real hunting situations despite it being an easy concept with a possible “slight” benefit (my small brain locked on to the small bird and that was all the thinking I could handle). I think the reason No competitive shotguns have 2 triggers is there is No need - in Sporting Clays and even in FITASC the shooter knows the target presentation or approximate distance before target is pulled and they have time to “select” which barrel to fire first with selective trigger O/U or SxS before they ever call PULL.

 

[BeeMaa]

BEE, that is interesting and I would've never known that ported chokes affect pattern? But I Now have no need to ever test that ported choke because YOU test everything more thoroughly then NASA. Why hasn’t Briley or Carlson “Sponsored YOU”? I trust You more then their advertising or Guns & Ammo magazine

I don’t know about NASA level testing, but I doubt they are looking at shotgun chokes.

What my experience has taught me is that more consistent patterns are achieved with non-ported chokes. That being said, sometimes the shooter needs the slight reduction in felt recoil that a ported choke will provide. If that’s the case and the pattern at the intended distance is acceptable…go for it.

For every rule there is an exception, and when it comes to shotguns there are many combinations that will yield the same results.

Example: If one of my young nieces were looking to hunt turkey. I could set her up with a 12 bore and ported choke but it would likely yield the same results as a 20 bore with a non-ported choke. I’ve not done a lot of 20 bore tests so this is all conjecture until my niece creates a need for me to get a SBE3 20 bore.

 

[BeeMaa]

I spent a morning on the sporting clays range with @HankBuck and had a wonderful time. The weather was a little wet, which was nice to keep the crowds to a minimum. Not to mention the cool temperatures that were nearly perfect for a nice walk in among the shooting stands.

I used my Blaser F3 for the first couple stands with mediocre results. After flubbing several shots and watching @HankBuck break 90% (probably more), I had to call an audible. It was time to break out the SBE3.

I pull out the Benelli and load it up. I have a little smirk on my face and @HankBuck asks what it's about...I'll tell you later.

I proceed to break many more than I did with the Blaser F3 when I re-shoot it, and he asks, "what was the smirk about?" I show him my choke...it's a TKY choke with a diameter of .650" for a 12 bore. He looks at me in and says..."seems to work for you".

Keep in mind that CYL for a Benelli is .725" and most people shoot sporting clays with something near IM which for me is .700". Well today all I had was TKY and I either broke it, or I didn't. I will say that I normally shoot a FULL choke at .695", but this goes to show how little this all make a difference.

You either kill it hard or are chasing injured birds. That's what I learned. Up to today I've been using a FULL choke for nearly everything with the SBE3, killing much of what I aim at. This brings to mind @WAB who has said "choke makes little difference for those with proper skills".

As I cleaned the shotguns, I took out the TKY choke out of the SBE and replaced it with the FULL that normally adorns the muzzle, for fear of upsetting the gods of the goose killer. But it makes me wonder...should I be striving for a cleaner kill with the TKY choke or at least hone my skills on the clays range with it to prepare for goose season? Am I more superstitious than a baseball player? Can I really make those shots?

Not sure at this point, but the TKY choke could be seeing more use when it comes to the sporting clays range. At least as a warm up for the goose season. Might have to pattern my SBE3 with my TKY choke and goose load, which is something I never thought I might want to do.

Shoot more, get better, go tighter and have cleaner kills. That's my goal.

Shout out to @HankBuck. Always a pleasure to shoot with you my friend. Looking forward to the next time.

 

[HankBuck]

I spent a morning on the sporting clays range with @HankBuck and had a wonderful time. The weather was a little wet, which was nice to keep the crowds to a minimum. Not to mention the cool temperatures that were nearly perfect for a nice walk in among the shooting stands.

I used my Blaser F3 for the first couple stands with mediocre results. After flubbing several shots and watching @HankBuck break 90% (probably more), I had to call an audible. It was time to break out the SBE3.

I pull out the Benelli and load it up. I have a little smirk on my face and @HankBuck asks what it's about...I'll tell you later.

I proceed to break many more than I did with the Blaser F3 when I re-shoot it, and he asks, "what was the smirk about?" I show him my choke...it's a TKY choke with a diameter of .650" for a 12 bore. He looks at me in and says..."seems to work for you".

Keep in mind that CYL for a Benelli is .725" and most people shoot sporting clays with something near IM which for me is .700". Well today all I had was TKY and I either broke it, or I didn't. I will say that I normally shoot a FULL choke at .695", but this goes to show how little this all make a difference.

You either kill it hard or are chasing injured birds. That's what I learned. Up to today I've been using a FULL choke for nearly everything with the SBE3, killing much of what I aim at. This brings to mind @WAB who has said "choke makes little difference for those with proper skills".

As I cleaned the shotguns, I took out the TKY choke out of the SBE and replaced it with the FULL that normally adorns the muzzle, for fear of upsetting the gods of the goose killer. But it makes me wonder...should I be striving for a cleaner kill with the TKY choke or at least hone my skills on the clays range with it to prepare for goose season? Am I more superstitious than a baseball player? Can I really make those shots?

Not sure at this point, but the TKY choke could be seeing more use when it comes to the sporting clays range. At least as a warm up for the goose season. Might have to pattern my SBE3 with my TKY choke and goose load, which is something I never thought I might want to do.

Shoot more, get better, go tighter and have cleaner kills. That's my goal.

Shout out to @HankBuck. Always a pleasure to shoot with you my friend. Looking forward to the next time.

@BeeMaa - shoot a Modified choke for Sporting Clays next time and you will be a “force-to-be-reconed-with”. Dusting clays with a Turkey choke is good shooting but Hitting those 4”x1” clay birds will still be a challenge enough w/Modified and after that your Geese will look like “floating garbage cans”…Plus with that TSS you are so fond of shooting (you could bring down a 747 with 1-2 pellets) the geese will be dead before they hit the ground. Nice shooting with you and meeting your Wife today - have a good weekend.

 

[BeeMaa]

@BeeMaa - shoot a Modified choke for Sporting Clays next time and you will be a “force-to-be-reconed-with”. Dusting clays with a Turkey choke is good shooting but Hitting those 4”x1” clay birds will still be a challenge enough w/Modified and after that your Geese will look like “floating garbage cans”…Plus with that TSS you are so fond of shooting (you could bring down a 747 with 1-2 pellets) the geese will be dead before they hit the ground. Nice shooting with you and meeting your Wife today - have a good weekend.

Loved seeing the new Caesar Guerini in your hands today. Quite the upgrade from the Browning you are usually sporting. Of course you spanked me regardless of what you were shooting, but the class you did it with was exceptional. Looking forward to the next time.

 

[PCC600]

I spent a morning on the sporting clays range with @HankBuck and had a wonderful time. The weather was a little wet, which was nice to keep the crowds to a minimum. Not to mention the cool temperatures that were nearly perfect for a nice walk in among the shooting stands.

I used my Blaser F3 for the first couple stands with mediocre results. After flubbing several shots and watching @HankBuck break 90% (probably more), I had to call an audible. It was time to break out the SBE3.

I pull out the Benelli and load it up. I have a little smirk on my face and @HankBuck asks what it's about...I'll tell you later.

I proceed to break many more than I did with the Blaser F3 when I re-shoot it, and he asks, "what was the smirk about?" I show him my choke...it's a TKY choke with a diameter of .650" for a 12 bore. He looks at me in and says..."seems to work for you".

Keep in mind that CYL for a Benelli is .725" and most people shoot sporting clays with something near IM which for me is .700". Well today all I had was TKY and I either broke it, or I didn't. I will say that I normally shoot a FULL choke at .695", but this goes to show how little this all make a difference.

You either kill it hard or are chasing injured birds. That's what I learned. Up to today I've been using a FULL choke for nearly everything with the SBE3, killing much of what I aim at. This brings to mind @WAB who has said "choke makes little difference for those with proper skills".

As I cleaned the shotguns, I took out the TKY choke out of the SBE and replaced it with the FULL that normally adorns the muzzle, for fear of upsetting the gods of the goose killer. But it makes me wonder...should I be striving for a cleaner kill with the TKY choke or at least hone my skills on the clays range with it to prepare for goose season? Am I more superstitious than a baseball player? Can I really make those shots?

Not sure at this point, but the TKY choke could be seeing more use when it comes to the sporting clays range. At least as a warm up for the goose season. Might have to pattern my SBE3 with my TKY choke and goose load, which is something I never thought I might want to do.

Shoot more, get better, go tighter and have cleaner kills. That's my goal.

Shout out to @HankBuck. Always a pleasure to shoot with you my friend. Looking forward to the next time.

I favour more open chokes for the type of shooting I do . These days just use an old 12g Browning superposed . If a walk up I use cylinder and IC with no. 6 shot for pheasants / partridge. If high driven pheasant then IC and modified chokes and no. 4 . If Cape Barren geese ( look slow but have rockets ) then modified and IM . Seem to get plenty . Practice sporting clays with IC and M . The Browning was originally full/ full but I had Brierley’s fitted and forcing cones extended . A delight to shoot and light as far as U/ O guns go. Still have a Beretta 682 Sporter with Optima chokes. A good gun but I prefer the Browning . Have a beautiful pair of Grants both full / full that I just like looking at , but do take out every now and then for exercise .

 

[HankBuck]

I favour more open chokes for the type of shooting I do . These days just use an old 12g Browning superposed . If a walk up I use cylinder and IC with no. 6 shot for pheasants / partridge. If high driven pheasant then IC and modified chokes and no. 4 . If Cape Barren geese ( look slow but have rockets ) then modified and IM . Seem to get plenty . Practice sporting clays with IC and M . The Browning was originally full/ full but I had Brierley’s fitted and forcing cones extended . A delight to shoot and light as far as U/ O guns go. Still have a Beretta 682 Sporter with Optima chokes. A good gun but I prefer the Browning . Have a beautiful pair of Grants both full / full that I just like looking at , but do take out every now and then for exercise .

@PCC600 - the most OVER thought part of shotgun shooting must be “chokes” and while no one can argue that chokes can tighten or open a “pattern” the affect of clean hits or misses on Clay Targets is minimal….BUT on wild game “cripples” can be a result of “too open” a pattern. Yesterday shooting with BeeMaa was interesting and had I not known he was shooting a Turkey-Full Choke - would’ve just thought “He’s having a good day” - shooting better then average and got in a rhythm on some stations and “smoking targets”. Top competition shooters shoot Modified to Full chokes, some shoot barrels with fixed chokes and others rarely ever change a choke during a competition - regardless of target presentation (close or 60-70 yrds).
The saying is “chokes affect pattern by several inches - misses are by several feet”.
My Son shot a Side x Side competition last year and used a 100 year old LC Smith 12ga choked Full & Full - he won with 46/50 (92%). He Liked the gun so much he had gun “restored”: reblued, stock refinished, custom Beavertail Forend made, chambers lengthened to 2 3/4”, AND chokes opened up to M & IM. He still shoots that SxS well but hasn’t shot over 90% since and hasn’t Won another Tournament with it….even though now it is choked “perfectly”. Now, after all of this pontificating (about how insignificant chokes are) I’m likely going to have a 100 yr old A&H Fox 12ga side x side “restored” for me AND have the chokes opened up from F&F to Mod & IC….how’s that for hypocritical ? No one I’ve hunted with or shot with has spent more time & $$ testing and researching Chokes, patterns, or loads more then BeeMaa and he’s my Go To for advice on that topic. I don’t trust advertising or marketing but if I have a question, I’ll ask Bee and certain he’s studied or tested it.
For a Turkey or Buckshot - choke likely matters (and I’m saving up my $$ to try some TSS someday) but for birds ”on the wing” — square them with your pattern.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

You know I hold you in great respect, but when I was a kid my first shotgun was a Ted Williams 20 with a magical polychoke on the end. I spent much of my youth wasting my time twisting the silly thing until one day I shot it off the end of the barrel when I had loosened it too much (thank a benevolent God). My next gun was a fixed choke Model 12.

What you describe above is to me the adult version of the same thing. I think @WAB is exactly correct. I would wager serious money that I can take the same gun with the same choke and shoot someone of equal skill bird for bird on the first three on your list and not lose one due to the "wrong" choke. In my experience, it is the load that matters.

I can take at least half a dozen guns in three different bores off the rack and deal with the bottom two without worrying about different chokes.

I am curious about the three-inch load for upland game?!? Is that some sort of steel shot? The toughest upland shooting I have done is mid to late season sharptail grouse. They launch out there a ways and drive like a box bird. 1 1/8 ounces of number 6 from a modified/full gun is perfection.

I have shot pheasants with 3" twelve gauge shells but only because I had to. On federal bird refuges nontoxic shot is required. Sometimes, especially during the pandemic, 3" was all that was available in steel (forget about tungsten or bismuth!). At one point I drove 150 miles to a reservation trading post to buy two boxes of 3" Kent #4. To the best of my knowledge those were the only two boxes of steel twelve gauge available in the entire state of Montana! Correction ... a store in Helena had a couple boxes of steel T shot. Heck, I didn't know anyone even made steel T shot shells. I would never shoot them in my shotgun no matter what choke was in the tube! I only used one box of those Kent shells. They were horrible! Traded the other box to a buddy who had an old box of Federal shells. Similarly I have found Kent FastSteel waterfowl loads in BB to be very unpredictable. One box is absolutely deadly and then the next box won't knock down a hummingbird. Others have made the same complaint.

 

[Challer]

I have literally a small bucketful of Muller chokes. They are light and seemingly indestructible. Then after years shooting clays you learn 020/020 is good for most clays and you can focus more, worry less. While I still use the Muller, I find the flush Briley and Teague as good as any and I hate to admit, I prefer the look, which shouldn't matter.

@BeeMaa, you'll kill them dead with 020 on the clays range. Hunting is a different story.

Everyone here needs to read

Sporting Shotgun Performance: Measurement, Analysis, Optimisation.​

 

[BeeMaa]

Need to clear something up. Constriction vs diameter.

Constriction is the subtraction of the tightest part of the choke from the cylinder bore diameter. For my Benelli SBE the bore diameter is .725" and I normally shoot a FULL choke for clays and hunting that is .695" (diameter). This can also be expressed as 030 or .030 because .725" - .695" = .030". My TKY choke is .650 diameter or .075 constriction.

@Challer is talking about 020 or what is normally a MOD choke on most shotguns. And he's right, it's good for nearly everything with proper practice. But if you want to really reach out there and PASTE (not just break or chip) a clay, more constriction will be needed. BTW - It was cool yesterday breaking fast moving rabbits at 20 yards on station 7 and watching them evaporate.

Cylinder bore diameter is determined by the manufacturer and can vary a considerable amount. This has always amazed me that there isn't an exact number that everyone can agree on, but this is how they do it.

Some examples of 12 bore cylinder diameters...
Benelli Crio-CrioPlus .725"
Beretta OptimaHP .733"
Browning InvectorPlus .740"

Across the pond... In the US most people talking about chokes refer to them as CYL, MOD and FULL...etc. In the UK and Europe it's more often referred to as a fraction and goes something like this.

1 - FULL
7/8 - LIGHT FULL
3/4 - IMPROVED MOD
5/8 - MOD
1/2 - LIGHT MOD
3/8 - IMPROVED CYL
1/4 - SKEET
0 - CYL

This is a guide and not set in stone. I know companies (and people) that call 1/2 a MOD choke.

In the end, they are all some sort of approximation based on CYL bore diameter and even that is subject to debate across the brands. So if you want some sort of reference point to know what you are shooting, break out the calipers and measure. MOD choke (aka 020, aka 5/8, aka 1/2) for your shotgun could be very different from another brand.

Or you could pull a John Daly "Grip It & Rip It" to go break some clays and completely disregard all this gibberish about chokes.

Here's a link to the book that @Challer mentioned in the post above.
Sporting Shotgun Performance: Measurement, Analysis, Optimisation

 

[archer36]

Shotgun chokes are a science now. You can't just give a simple answer. Talk about the game you are pursuing and you can talk more precisely about chokes.

 

[Daisy]

@BeeMaa, you are as fine of a gentleman as Is on this board.

You can’t make an inference on chokes based on you shooting better with your old faithful gun. It most likely shoulders and points well for you, fits you well, and you have a familiarity.

A great shooter will beat a poor shooter no matter what they choose. However, a great shooter can, should, and will use every advantage against another great shooter, and that includes chokes.

You are running a 10k blaser f3. That lets me know that many small things with a shotgun matter for you. If not, you would use an 870.

It has become en vogue for some reason to act like chokes don’t matter. That’s crazy, and the same people that will spend months working up a perfect load for African game will then say “give me full choke and off I go.” It’s weird and is kind of silly imo.

 

[BeeMaa]

@BeeMaa, you are as fine of a gentleman as Is on this board.

You can’t make an inference on chokes based on you shooting better with your old faithful gun. It most likely shoulders and points well for you, fits you well, and you have a familiarity.

A great shooter will beat a poor shooter no matter what they choose. However, a great shooter can, should, and will use every advantage against another great shooter, and that includes chokes.

You are running a 10k blaser f3. That lets me know that many small things with a shotgun matter for you. If not, you would use an 870.

It has become en vogue for some reason to act like chokes don’t matter. That’s crazy, and the same people that will spend months working up a perfect load for African game will then say “give me full choke and off I go.” It’s weird and is kind of silly imo.

You bring up a good point...practice and familiarity.

@HankBuck mentioned the exact same thing. If I stuck with the Blaser F3 and shot it more, I would get better with it. I believe both of you are right in this regard. My question is why. Why work harder to get to the same spot when I can hone my skills with the SBE3 and advance more quickly?

The Blaser F3 I was shooting (poorly) was choked IM and MOD (.708" and .713") and the SBE3 that I shot much better had a TKY choke of .650". Of course I'm not saying the choke made the difference, it's obviously the fit and feel of the shotgun.

Maybe I should consider having the Blaser F3 built to the same dimensions as the Benelli SBE3 and go from there. Just kidding. I'll do the sensible thing and sell the F3 and buy a SBE3 Waterfowl Performance Shop Edition 20 bore.

 

[Challer]

Believe or not there are excellent custom stocks out there. And some are affordable. These guys can fit you in person but also use videos and photos to fit you remotely. I’ve had 3 done remotely with exhibition grade wood, less than 2K each. Something changes when you can close you eyes, mount the gun and the bead is right where it belongs. Pull the trigger and the patterned is centered. Highly recommended.

Home - Manuel Ricardo

manuelricardo.pt

Buy the book to learn chokes. But I’ll stand by my word only your gun, choke, load, pattern board will sort it out. Chokes load gun will give you pattern; gun fit will determine where the center of the pattern is.

And yes some very fine guns (talking to you Beretta and Zoli) come with some terrible chokes. Lots of good aftermarket ones. No magic ones.

 

[HankBuck]

You bring up a good point...practice and familiarity.

@HankBuck mentioned the exact same thing. If I stuck with the Blaser F3 and shot it more, I would get better with it. I believe both of you are right in this regard. My question is why. Why work harder to get to the same spot when I can hone my skills with the SBE3 and advance more quickly?

The Blaser F3 I was shooting (poorly) was choked IM and MOD (.708" and .713") and the SBE3 that I shot much better had a TKY choke of .650". Of course I'm not saying the choke made the difference, it's obviously the fit and feel of the shotgun.

Maybe I should consider having the Blaser F3 built to the same dimensions as the Benelli SBE3 and go from there. Just kidding. I'll do the sensible thing and sell the F3 and buy a SBE3 Waterfowl Performance Shop Edition 20 bore.

@BeeMaa some top competitive shooters shoot autoloaders and Beretta A400 tops the list along with some autos from Fabarms. Autos generally shoot “softer” and while they have a different balance point/feel vs. O/Us they are no less effective….they are also less expensive. As well as you shoot your SBE3 you’d handle any auto loader as good or better - modified choke and some medium speed shells —- you’ll light up the Clays courses. Adjustable comb stocks are also popular and while I hate the look of them - seems a smart way to determine what “fits you best”. I’m almost afraid to try an “adjustable stock” - might like it so much that it will require ALL my shotguns to get one….what a mess & expense that would be!! Also autos are easily customized —Recoil suppressors can be inserted into either butt stock, magazine, or both and lessen recoil while also adjusting balance of gun —— if so desired, add high rib, Monte Carlo stock etc.. and always less recoil then most O/Us…The less felt recoil the better. I’m dropping down to 1oz loads in 12ga and 1200fps if I can find them —even if I have to pay a little more then the commonly available 1 1/8 oz at 1200 fps…. Recoil is Not a shooters friend and never helps break a target, can cause flinching especially when shooting 200-300 rounds in a day. The effects of recoil are cumulative and subtle but are never a positive. Proper gun mount is key because while recoil pads “help” they can Not fully protect from a poor gun mount. Now, we just need to find some “affordable ammo” — 12 ga for $5.00 a box like it was 10 years ago — where are they??

 

[Daisy]

You bring up a good point...practice and familiarity.

@HankBuck mentioned the exact same thing. If I stuck with the Blaser F3 and shot it more, I would get better with it. I believe both of you are right in this regard. My question is why. Why work harder to get to the same spot when I can hone my skills with the SBE3 and advance more quickly?

The Blaser F3 I was shooting (poorly) was choked IM and MOD (.708" and .713") and the SBE3 that I shot much better had a TKY choke of .650". Of course I'm not saying the choke made the difference, it's obviously the fit and feel of the shotgun.

Maybe I should consider having the Blaser F3 built to the same dimensions as the Benelli SBE3 and go from there. Just kidding. I'll do the sensible thing and sell the F3 and buy a SBE3 Waterfowl Performance Shop Edition 20 bore.

I’m with you Bee. I grew up shooting semi auto. Took me a while to get OU down pat. I’ll tell you, gun to my head I would take my benelli ethos cordoba 28 gauge semi auto on a once in a lifetime bird hunt over my f3 or citori. But mainly because I would get 3 shots instead of 2. Ha