Charles Lancaster 450#2 Nitro Express Double Rifle - A pristine example

[SStomcat]

No I was not

And we were un-informed. I have verified and Mark indeed carried a Heym sidelock in 577 ne which later he sold for around 60K

Clarification - The statement "No, I was not" got posted inadvertently. The second statement is accurate.

 

[John the Electrician]

I did in fact see and hold this gun last night. It truly is a stunning double rifle.

If anyone wishes to PM me and ask me about the rifle, please do so. I am very new to nice rifles and doubles; there will be things I don’t know. But I will repeat, this really is an amazing firearm.

Rookhawk and I have been friends since he moved to Wisconsin. However, the rifle speaks for itself, it's spectacular.

John

 

[rookhawk]

The Lancaster is sold pending funds from @Captain Jack

 

[tarbe]

My wife will be thrilled!

She is getting tired of me chirping about this rifle

 

[Captain Jack]

Not to worry gents, it's going to a good home where it'll be gently used and well cared for.

I've probably forever ruined double rifles for myself.

 

[tarbe]

Not to worry gents, it's going to a good home where it'll be gently used and well cared for.

I've probably forever ruined double rifles for myself.

Very likely!

 

[tarbe]

I am trying to decide if the greatest value RH brings to the forum is his knowledge, or the rifles he sells.

Perhaps those two are inseparable?

 

[rookhawk]

I am trying to decide if the greatest value RH brings to the forum is his knowledge, or the rifles he sells.

Perhaps those two are inseparable.

You're very kind. The hardest thing to convey to friends over the Net or phone, versus in person is the difference between a very high quality rifle/gun versus a not so great one. Most people incorrectly believe the difference is fancy wood and lots of engraving, but that isn't the difference.

A low-quality (and maybe very expensive to boot) weapon feels dead, usually out of balance, usually with a grip that is uncomfortable, and stock dimensions that don't instantly line up with the sights. The old analogy was a lousy weapon feels like "swinging a pig on the end of a shovel".

Just like a blind taste test on drinks produces surprising results, a blindfolded experience handing someone in person a weapon and saying "hold this, draw it to your face, open your eyes, how did that fit?" is how you can find out if you have a very high quality weapon. But you have to have someone give you winners and losers to handle under a controlled situation to learn how to identify a good versus a bad gun.

Cheap guns are rarely good, but I've seen guns on this site that were $100,000 and they were seriously flawed by the above explanation. It requires experience and education to sniff out the good from the bad, or buying from someone you trust has that expertise.

 

[Tex .416]

You're very kind. The hardest thing to convey to friends over the Net or phone, versus in person is the difference between a very high quality rifle/gun versus a not so great one. Most people incorrectly believe the difference is fancy wood and lots of engraving, but that isn't the difference.

A low-quality (and maybe very expensive to boot) weapon feels dead, usually out of balance, usually with a grip that is uncomfortable, and stock dimensions that don't instantly line up with the sights. The old analogy was a lousy weapon feels like "swinging a pig on the end of a shovel".

Just like a blind taste test on drinks produces surprising results, a blindfolded experience handing someone in person a weapon and saying "hold this, draw it to your face, open your eyes, how did that fit?" is how you can find out if you have a very high quality weapon. But you have to have someone give you winners and losers to handle under a controlled situation to learn how to identify a good versus a bad gun.

Cheap guns are rarely good, but I've seen guns on this site that were $100,000 and they were seriously flawed by the above explanation. It requires experience and education to sniff out the good from the bad, or buying from someone you trust has that expertise.

Out of curiosity and my own learning, if this is what you sold, what in the heck are you keeping and using? Absolutely beautiful rifle. Congratulations to the new owner.

 

[rookhawk]

Out of curiosity and my own learning, if this is what you sold, what in the heck are you keeping and using? Absolutely beautiful rifle. Congratulations to the new owner.

I'm keeping my Heym. My Heym is also a used gun with some wear on it so I don't burst into tears if I scratch it. I didn't feel I should be the guy to take the Lancaster out for safari, the first few scratches would be the hardest for me to stomach.

But to put it into perspective, if a brand new Heym is $40,000, a brand new carbon-copy of the Lancaster would be $200,000. Apples to Oranges on the amount of craftsmanship and thought that goes into making the latter versus the former. One is technology, the other is art.

 

[Altitude sickness]

Congrats to buyer and seller. Very exciting. And one heck of a bargain.

 

[Altitude sickness]

What other genre can you purchase and hold an example of the “Best” of that genre for $30K

 

[rookhawk]

What other genre can you purchase and hold an example of the “Best” of that genre for $30K

I would say that a British Vintage 12 bore "best gun" can be had easily, easily at the $30k pricepoint. Heck, even at the $15k pricepoint if you shop hard. That would be the other "bargain" class of weapon I'm aware of today.

Now imagine a totally mediocre finished 410 or 28 bore side by side from a 2nd or 3rd tier British maker that is in no way a best gun. That could run you $30k.

@VertigoBE on this forum owns a best magazine rifle from an obscure master in 416 Rigby. Few rifles of that type would be its equal. He was able to acquire that rifle for a reasonable sum as well, largely because he's in Europe where there is less interest in best large bore magazine rifles. (it would have sold for double in the USA, easily)

So that would be the two "deals" in other genres where I think dollars can go very far.

 

[VertigoBE]

I would say that a British Vintage 12 bore "best gun" can be had easily, easily at the $30k pricepoint. Heck, even at the $15k pricepoint if you shop hard. That would be the other "bargain" class of weapon I'm aware of today.

Now imagine a totally mediocre finished 410 or 28 bore side by side from a 2nd or 3rd tier British maker that is in no way a best gun. That could run you $30k.

@VertigoBE on this forum owns a best magazine rifle from an obscure master in 416 Rigby. Few rifles of that type would be its equal. He was able to acquire that rifle for a reasonable sum as well, largely because he's in Europe where there is less interest in best large bore magazine rifles. (it would have sold for double in the USA, easily)

So that would be the two "deals" in other genres where I think dollars can go very far.

Although I have nothing against trying, I do think that .416 Rigby Vereecke is a deal I will not likely surpass any time soon. (Although there is also the Dumoulin Centurion and the Heym…)

 

[Tex .416]

Looking at this rifle longer, several thoughts come to mind.

Many of us look at a $30,000 price tag and think oh that is a lot to spend. Yet, most of us would be thrilled if our next car could be $30,000 and it loses value like a boat going to the bottom of the ocean. This is a better deal than many of my traditional “investments.”

Absolutely exquisite workmanship and the longer I mull it, an incredible value.

I never regretted buying a nice gun or piece of art, but have deep regret over I few I did not buy or even worse - sold.

Capt. Jack, this is one of the most incredible rifles I have ever seen, I truly hope you take it out hunting and enjoy it.

Congratulations and well done Capt. Jack!

 

[rookhawk]

I figured those reading along and learning would be interested in this picture:

One of the rounds photographed is my “puny” 470 Nitro Express I use for hunting elephants, the other is Captain Jack’s 450 Number Two, 3-1/2” nitro express. Yes, they are that big!

 

[Tex .416]

The one of the left is the .450?

Take that thing to Ukraine and go shoot some tanks.

 

[sniper7]

I’m so glad this sold! Congrats to buyer and seller. I have been going back and forth on buying this but have a new Heym inbound or I would have bought it immediately.
What an incredible gun and history!

 

[rookhawk]

The one of the left is the .450?

Take that thing to Ukraine and go shoot some tanks.

2175fps is the official claim, reasonably it’s 2140fps real world. The highest power .450 caliber double rifle ever made. Get this, it does it with about ten pounds less recoil than a 470NE, roughly 55lbs of felt recoil launching a 480gr bullet. (The 470NE uses a 500gr bullet)

The reason the old Ivory hunters loved the 450#2 is that gigantic case allowed far lower pressure than any other .45 caliber, thus they didn’t stick in tropical conditions. They also load easy, finding their way into the chamber without getting stuck.

The official “respect my authority” .450 caliber!

 

[Captain Jack]

Thanks for the kind words and congratulations, everyone! I will do my level best to be a caretaker worthy of such a piece. I would’ve forever regretted not making the jump, and the financial sting is eased a bit by nature of the purchase being a joint venture with my dad, who is something of a collector himself. This rifle will have excellent company in the safe, though it outshines them all.

There’s a chance this .450 will gather an elk before the year is out, but only if one wanders into the old man’s front yard, as they sometimes do.