Change my 458 Lott for a 460 Weatherby Magnum

[nitro476]

458 Win VS 460 Weatherby

Hornady has introduced ammo that brings the once troubled 458 up to the velocity/energy specifications of the 470 Nitro and the price is reasonable.

LOL.....I hear ya brother!

Yes, I did read that you can fire .458 Win ammo in the Lott so I guess that isn't as big of concern. In the end, I doubt any animal can tell the difference if he is hit by a .458 Win or Lott and it just seemed to me like a lot of to-do about nothing for a maybe 50 FPS of extra POP

 

[Paul Homsy]

In regard to the 460 Wby Mag it was an answer to only one question, and that was what will the American public buy that is no improvement over what we already have? The only thing the 460 Wby Mag will give you is more noise, and unneeded recoil to accomplish the same thing better cartridges chambered in better rifles will already accomplish.

Now In regard to the 458 LOTT! What it did was what Winchester should have done in the first place! Use the full length 375 H&H brass and open it up to .458! Winchester made two mistakes with the 458 Win Mag, one was using a 500 gr bullet, and the other was shortening the case so that the powders of the day had to be compressed to the point where the powder became a solid cake after a few days in the high temperatures of the African hunting seasons. This caking of the ball powder caused hang fires, misfires, and slow fires that caused a lot of problems for guys hunting Buffalo and elephant with either not firing at all, or a failure to attain enough velocity to penetrate to the vitals of the buffalo from bad angles, or failure to reach the brain on a charging elephant. In the 1950s when the 458 Win mag was introduced it never was able to reach it's advertised velocity of 2100 fps from a 30 inch test barrel, even when not caked with the 500 gr bullets it was saddled with in the 22 inch barrels of the Mod 70 Win rifle.

The lott put out a little over 2300 fps with that same 500 gr bullet from a hunting barrel back in the 1950s while the 458 Win Mag was lucky to make over 1900 fps from a hunting rifle barrel.

Today we have powders that allow the 458 Win Mag to get to the proper velocities, and you can always tell that a poster is young when he claims the problems with the 458 Win Mag never existed, simply because he wasn’t even born when the 458 Win Mag was introduced in 1954!

I bought one of the first 458 Win Mag Mod 70s sold in El Paso, Texas back in late 1954, and it didn’t take long in our 105 F heat to find the problems with it. I played with it for a few months and finally had the barrel pulled, and a 375 H&H barrel installed, problem solved!

If Winchester had simply made the 458 Win Mag with the same case that LOTT used in the first place, the 458 Win Mag wouldn’t be saddled with the rep it carries today, even after powders have solved the problem. If you ammo for the Lott is lost, it is no problem, simply buy a box or two of 458 Win Mag and go on hunting!

As old Elmer was fond of saying,when ask about someting way back when, "Hell I was there! " and was the title of one of his books. :ranger:

"The lott put out a little over 2300 fps with that same 500 gr bullet from a hunting barrel back in the 1950s while the 458 Win Mag was lucky to make over 1900 fps from a hunting rifle barrel."

The 458 Lott developed by Jack Lott in 1971 received SAAMI approval in 1989. It didn't exist in the 1950s. You may be thinking of another cartridge...?

 

[colorado]

I think it's going to be the most sensible thing I am sorry to have bothered. Many thanks.

Oscar.

No bother, good decision!

 

[rookhawk]

Hello, a friend is selling a 460 Weatherby Magnum, as you know I have a 458 Lott and I am tempted to sell my Ceska and buy the 460 Weatherby. And I wonder what is truly worth the change?. I have not yet released the 458 Lott because ammunition is very expensive.

Thanks

Oscar

I wouldn’t take a hundred 460 Weatherby for a single 458 Lott. The recoil is more manageable and you can download it to 458WM which is nearing pleasant to shoot. If you lose your ammo in transit, there is a double plan of 458 Lott or winmag and indeed, 458 win is an obtainable ammo on safari.

460 weatherby? No plan. And your second shot is going to be slower.

just my opinion. There is a reason 458 is a top safari gun and 460 is not.

 

[flatwater bill]

People certainly seem to hate the 460 Wby. Every time it is brought up in conversation, someone pipes up to say that elephant are happier after the shot than before. Likewise for the 458 Win. Best of luck with your purchase or trade..........................FWB

 

[oscar1975]

Thank you.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I'd sell the .458 Lott and just buy a .458 Win....but that's just me.

For the extra powder you burn and recoil you hardly get much more FPS/Ft Lbs.

To me I never understood the fascination of the .458 Lott....seems to be innefficent to me, burn a lot more powder to hardly gain in performance.

Besides, with the .458 Win, like the .375 H&H you can pretty much find ammo anywhere in Africa that sells ammo but you can't say the same thing for the .458 Lott, the .378 Weatherby or the .460 Weatherby. If your shooting the Lott or Weatherby's heaven help you if you get seperated from your ammo by the airlines or whatever.

@TERMINATOR
The beauty of the Lott is in a pinch you can use the 458 win. It can be loaded down to 47/70 or full power plus anything in betwixt.
Bob

 

[Mark A Ouellette]

FYI, I recently measured the velocity with a Lab Radar of Nosler Safari ammo in .458 Win with 500 gr solid (brass, I believe) bullets.
Results were:
Average velocity: 2139 FPS
Extreme spread: 13 FPS

Shot with 25" barrels

I have a .458 Lott with a 22.5" barrel. I will soon measure and report on the velocity of Nosler Safari .458 Lott ammo 500 gr solids.

 

[IvW]

11 year old post.....I think the dude has come to his senses by now.......

 

[JimP]

It seems to me that people forget that you can load down the 460 Weatherby to a lot milder loading. You don't need to shoot full power loads all the time, but if you don't reload you are stuck with factory loads with all of them

 

[Rocco490]

Keep your 458 Lott. Add the 460 weatherby to your collection if you want but dont replace the 458 lott with the weatherby.

 

[C.W. Richter]

Why? Read what Kevin Robertson PH veterinarian has to say about it in his books as touched upon above. The lott is a lot in itself and all you need to get any job done! I'm a big fan of the 460 weatherby case necked down to other calibers such as 338. Super accurate long range Slayer for entirely different purposes.

 

[TTundra]

I picked up a Hannibal in 460 Wby. recently. Always wanted the rifle, and admire the cartridge, figured I could rebarrel at worst case scenario.

After testing some loads, I am a fan of the 460. Extremely versatile with bullets weights ranging from 350-500, and I'm just scratching the surface. Need more development time however to pick my favorite loads, but modern bullet designs have allowed for the 460s abilities to be reached much more effectively.

Echoing what's been said before here, in print, and over the years.. The 460 in a 1917 action (or other similar mauser inspired action) rifle like the Hannibal has been a pleasant surprise; ie, not a Mark V and no brake I notice no more delay in my second or third shot than shooting my rigby. Call it the weight, coil chek stock, or fitment (or all the above) it works well for me. Mine also holds 3 down and one in the chamber, 1 more than a wby. rifle.

I would never opt for a muzzle braked 460, but mine at 11lbs scoped ( A Squares forward 2x QD option) is not what many have grown to fear in terms of recoil. Though, I will add, I actually very much like the A2 stock and it fits me quite well. Not for everyone, rather only the few, but a fantastic caliber for those whom can wield it well.

 

[machinistbutler]

458 Lott is the only answer in Canada between the two. The 460 Weatherby is prohibited to own lol. I wonder if a crime has ever been commited here with a 460 weatherby .

 

[CoElkHunter]

It seems to me that people forget that you can load down the 460 Weatherby to a lot milder loading. You don't need to shoot full power loads all the time, but if you don't reload you are stuck with factory loads with all of them

Unlike the straight walled Lott case, I didn't know you could load down a large capacity bottleneck case like the .460 or .416 Rigby too much for fear of hangfires? I guess that's where some type of wadding is needed to keep the powder tight against the primer?

 

[CoElkHunter]

458 Lott is the only answer in Canada between the two. The 460 Weatherby is prohibited to own lol. I wonder if a crime has ever been commited here with a 460 weatherby .

I guess the recoil could be considered an assault? Ha! Ha! Ha!

 

[fourfive8]

Can't imagine needing more than a Lott, but can understand the interest! I think @TTundra has the right formula for one in that M1917. Forget any idea of a brake- good stock with possibly an in-stock reducer and enough overall rifle weight, much better than a muzzle blaster.

A friend has one in the MK V and spends a little time at the range with it... a very little time. I'm certain the Hodgdon Data rule of 60% of max listed charge for H4895 would work fine and really knock the recoil down to a manageable level.

 

[machinistbutler]

I also prefer the mag capacity of the Lott. The big Rigby, Weatherby cases reduces that a bit. Almost typed reduces it a lot lol.

 

[oscar1975]

I see that the debate between these two cartridges continues to arouse passions and I love it. I finally kept the 458 Lott.

 

[John Telford]

Why is your mate selling his 460? The 458 is a Lott better.