Cast bullets & African game?

[John J]

If you are needing a mold not available or a custom design check out Accurate molds. Have one made, the brass one for my 45 70, works amazing.

 

[Roberto Mervicini]

One of my more industrious friends has bought a very sturdy looking Spanish 10 gauge 3.5" magnum double barreled shotgun, with the intent to convert it to a rifle, after he retires (soon).
One of the cartridges he is strongly considering is the .577 BPE.
If he settles on that cartridge, certainly a cast bullet will be proper for it, as that is exactly the type projectile this cartridge had made its excellent reputation with, back in "Pre-Nitro/Smokeless Powder Africa".
He's hunted Africa twice now with single shot and drilling, so I would not be even slightly surprised if he brought such a thing over there one day.
But of course, a lead bullet in .577 caliber is suitable for some larger animals and therefore is a whole different bird than a lead bullet in .308 caliber for small game.
I am a minimalist and so am uncomfortable bringing more than one bullet weight/powder charge per rifle wherever I go.
The most diversified I ever get on hunting trips is to bring a hand full of solids in the same weight that hit to the same point of impact as my softs, for whatever rifle I brought.
Bringing some different bullet weights, loaded to various different velocities would be the perfect way for me to miss the shot of a lifetime on something, like a huge caracal standing broadside at 75 paces, or some such - just my luck however self made it would be.
I have to keep things simple or I am ruined with tedium.

Hello Sir, that is my way also, have several rifles different caliber and i only use one bullet weight and one load only per rifle, that way no confusion, and pending the game i am after i always pack only two rifles, just in case something go wrong, here at home no time to go back home when 500 to 800 km away. till now the only experience I had with cast is with my 40/70 made out of a Siamese Mauser action, excellent results with 350 grain gas check and near max 3031 poeder ...exit at 2260fps.
this summer finally i found casing, reloading die and mould 400 gr. Gas check for my recently made 404, using Mauser 98 action as platform, time permitting i will reload and test.
Now in work 570 Capstick, barrel arrived, using Enfield P17 action, got semi inletted stock and reloading die, now need to find casing without breaking the bank ...!! and mould .576/500gr G.C.
keep on shooting !!
Regards Roberto

 

[Velo Dog]

Hello Roberto,

Your rifle projects seem like they will be a lot of fun.
There are a few Siamese Mausers converted to .45-70, here in Alaska where I live.

I have a .458 Lott that was built on a CZ Model 550 Magnum Action and “Bavarian” style or as some N. Americans say, “hump back” or “hog back” stock.
It has a Lothar Walther barrel, Recknagel express sights, Model 70 style safety lever and large, straight bolt handle welded on.

The late Cal Pappas had given to me several hundred 500 grain cast lead round nose bullets for it.
Some day I will get around to shooting them.

Some folks say the Bavarian style stock is uncomfortable in recoil.
I have found the opposite to be true.
Perhaps it is that different body shapes have quite a bit to do with recoil discomfort, when firing different styles of rifle stocks.
“One man’s bread is another man’s poison”. LoL

Anyway, stay on that front sight,
Paul.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Hello Roberto,

Your rifle projects seem like they will be a lot of fun.
There are a few Siamese Mausers converted to .45-70, here in Alaska where I live.

I have a .458 Lott that was built on a CZ Model 550 Magnum Action and “Bavarian” style or as some N. Americans say, “hump back” or “hog back” stock.
It has a Lothar Walther barrel, Recknagel express sights, Model 70 style safety lever and large, straight bolt handle welded on.

The late Cal Pappas had given to me several hundred 500 grain cast lead round nose bullets for it.
Some day I will get around to shooting them.

Some folks say the Bavarian style stock is uncomfortable in recoil.
I have found the opposite to be true.
Perhaps it is that different body shapes have quite a bit to do with recoil discomfort, when firing different styles of rifle stocks.
“One man’s bread is another man’s poison”. LoL

Anyway, stay on that front sight,
Paul.

@Velo Dog
Paul a mate had the Siamese Mauser 45-70 and was reloading for it using trap door loads. While he was out of the room I loaded up 3 full power loads for it.
Long story short out to his range to shoot some gongs. He thought it was the ducks guts. You should have seen his eyes light up and the words he said when he touched off a 405gn at 1,800fps instead of 1,200fps. Let's just say it was as funny as hell but he loved it.
Bob

 

[F. Vaccaro]

@Velo Dog
Paul a mate had the Siamese Mauser 45-70 and was reloading for it using trap door loads. While he was out of the room I loaded up 3 full power loads for it.
Long story short out to his range to shoot some gongs. He thought it was the ducks guts. You should have seen his eyes light up and the words he said when he touched off a 405gn at 1,800fps instead of 1,200fps. Let's just say it was as funny as hell but he loved it.
Bob

I regularly shoot the REM. 405gr JSP at a chronographed 1730fps from my 95 Marlin .45-70. When they land, stuff happens.

 

[crs]

I now see that we should have published the results of our bullet testing project a decade or so ago on this site. It was published elsewhere, but it is clear that it was not read here.

I will avoid several pages of text and pictures and simply state that the bottom line was that testing using premium bullets of all types, lead bullets did kill plains game EXCEPT when the bullet hit a large bone, smeared, and deviated from the original path; then the results were not predictable - PERIOD!

Our team concluded that for large game with big tough bones we will NEVER use lead bullets again.
PERIOD!

 

[Borderer]

I now see that we should have published the results of our bullet testing project a decade or so ago on this site. It was published elsewhere, but it is clear that it was not read here.

I will avoid several pages of text and pictures and simply state that the bottom line was that testing using premium bullets of all types, lead bullets did kill plains game EXCEPT when the bullet hit a large bone, smeared, and deviated from the original path; then the results were not predictable - PERIOD!

Our team concluded that for large game with big tough bones we will NEVER use lead bullets again.
PERIOD!

Did you prefer monolithic bullets? I am in the UK and as it looks like lead will be banned very soon here, South African Peregrine copper bullets and cartridges (made in UK with peregrine bullets) seem to have a very good following here, although I have not tried them yet.

 

[crs]

Border,
I have been shooting the line of North Fork bullets since they were first offered on the market.
They are still my top choice premium bullet.
There are many satisfactory choices for hunting deer or antelope, but when the critters get big , tough, toothy and dangerous , I always use North Fork. A hard habit to break.

 

[Roberto Mervicini]

Hello Roberto,

Your rifle projects seem like they will be a lot of fun.
There are a few Siamese Mausers converted to .45-70, here in Alaska where I live.

I have a .458 Lott that was built on a CZ Model 550 Magnum Action and “Bavarian” style or as some N. Americans say, “hump back” or “hog back” stock.
It has a Lothar Walther barrel, Recknagel express sights, Model 70 style safety lever and large, straight bolt handle welded on.

The late Cal Pappas had given to me several hundred 500 grain cast lead round nose bullets for it.
Some day I will get around to shooting them.

Some folks say the Bavarian style stock is uncomfortable in recoil.
I have found the opposite to be true.
Perhaps it is that different body shapes have quite a bit to do with recoil discomfort, when firing different styles of rifle stocks.
“One man’s bread is another man’s poison”. LoL

Anyway, stay on that front sight,
Paul

Hi Paul, sorry i just noticed i made mistake the action i am working now., 470 Capstick , some how i printed 570 that is wrong and the size of the bullet is not 575" but 475.''
Lothar Walther are very good barrel but hard on the tools ( chamber Reamers particularly ) to work.. have few of those also.
Cheers Roberto

 

[Roberto Mervicini]

@Velo Dog
Paul a mate had the Siamese Mauser 45-70 and was reloading for it using trap door loads. While he was out of the room I loaded up 3 full power loads for it.
Long story short out to his range to shoot some gongs. He thought it was the ducks guts. You should have seen his eyes light up and the words he said when he touched off a 405gn at 1,800fps instead of 1,200fps. Let's just say it was as funny as hell but he loved it.
Bob

I never try a trap door load, have 405 grain lead tips but to date I only use 350 gr. GC at full throttle and since I like it and perform well for me i never bother to try anything else.

 

[Roberto Mervicini]

If you are needing a mold not available or a custom design check out Accurate molds. Have one made, the brass one for my 45 70, works amazing.

Hello John, thanks for the tip, I look them up and found a mould that i like, bullet design 47-520 GG
i need to call them up and see if is ok, since the mould is 474" and my barrel is 475", I guess I could leave with the 520 grain, but if they could make it grain that would be excellent !

 

[Longwalker]

John J your reference to Accurate Moulds was much appreciated. I'm pretty sure they can build me a proper mould.

 

[John J]

He is really flexible and can do about anything with an existing design I believe? Glad to be helpful.

 

[Marcos Rodriguez]

Interesting topic guys...
I have been using lead in my bullets for many years.
Many people are confused with lead bullets thinking that they are only good for plinking or hunting small animals at subsonic or transonic speeds.
But it is not like that! Looking for the right, adequate powder charge, without giving it too much hardness, and using gaschecks (I make mine, aluminum) you can take a 190 gn point from a 308 win at 2200 fps calmly, achieving a precision almost equal to that of any regular hunting point, perhaps not the one you have with a "premium", but at the level of any bullet bought remington or hornady standard
Here, a test with two shots (I was taking cronograph velocity) at 100 yds
https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1QipPQ9C5rB0uWBLHpvN1g8U-dfd5BISbda8OOK1XE
https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1QipPQ9C5rB0uWBLHpvN1g8U-dfd5BISbda8OOK1XE
I never go to africa, but the midium animals, are medium animals, I shot down more than 40 boars with this lead cast bullets, most of them I post the pics in this forum
And the wild boar, are a though animal!...
I shot between 50 and 180 meters

 

[Velo Dog]

“lead bullets did kill plains game EXCEPT when the bullet hit a large bone, smeared, and deviated from the original path”

Hello crs,

I too have seen this same thing happen on occasion.
The commonality of circumstances appears to be, not necessarily in any order but definitely all inclusive:
1.
Too small of caliber for the animal being hunted.
2.
Too light of bullet for caliber (aka: low sectional density).
3.
Weak / Soft bullet construction.
4.
Excess Velocity.

5.
Sharp Pointed (spitzer) shape vs Blunt shape, is probably not nearly as much a factor as the above 4 are.
Nonetheless, I have noticed a definite pattern of impact performance between the two shapes, all else being equal.
The blunt shape seems to hold its course through critters more consistently.
However in all fairness, blunt shaped rifle bullets tend to usually be heavy for caliber.
Spitzer bullets are not always such.
So, there is that low vs high sectional density thing again.

If for example, .30-06 hunting ammunition was commonly loaded with both round nose 180 grain and spitzer 180 grain bullets, perhaps the spitzer would prove to stay as straight on course through various critters as the round nosers definitely do.

Also (with a very few noted exceptions), smallish bore rifle ammunition is generally not loaded with round nose or flat nose bullets.
And so, there is that as well.

Parting Shot as it were:
I know from reading your previous post, you are a modern monolithic bullet person.
Plus, guessing by your use of capitalized words and exclamation points, you are not overwhelmed with curiosity about one silly old geezer’s observations and personal experiences.
And so, I submit the following with caution and truly no offense intended….

Have you seen erratic performance from hollow point rifle bullets ?
Including todays trendy Barnes and similar design copper and / or copper alloy bullets?
I have seen failures to expand once in a great while, from hollow pointed bullets, including but not limited to monolithic ones.
I’ve never seen a round nose soft fail to expand.
No doubt this is at least in part due to them being half expanded before they even leave the rifle. LoL

Admittedly, I do not belong to any bullet testing team and I am definitely too lazy to do any lengthy, exhaustive or scientific bullet testing.
My cane tapping and bullet performance jabbering over here in the corner, are merely my observations and personal experiences, having hunted since early teens and now at age 70, living in Alaska 40 years and including 6 times hunting in Africa.
I know my credentials are blue collar at best and senile old man at worst.
Nonetheless, I have seen what appear clearly to be patterns in bullet performance (as mentioned in my items 1 through 4).

Anyway,
Best Regards
Velo Dog