Cartridges We Can Live Without...

[spike.t]

"For the older ones, anything with a rebated rim or a belt has found a better replacement..."

shit so i had better go get rid of my .500 jeff that i just got.......both my .458 lotts....my .300 win mag now if your saying that for all these older ones a better replacement has been found, then presumably this means all the old rimmed cals are no good either.........what about my .350 rigby better tell kynoch to stop loading it and use their space for something "better" ..........actually you probably need to tell david little at kynamco to stop wasting his time loading all those old obscure things and get with the modern stuff............screw all the modern powders etc i am quite happy with my .470, .416 rigby, .500 jeff, .275 rigby, .350 rigby , 9.3x62, 9.3x74 etc running the same as when they first came out....because they still work now as well as they did then ................

 

[FairChase]

Perhaps I should periodically clarify the topic for the newer participants...

From the original article; "There are, of course, many other old-time big bores, and a wealth of proprietaries and wildcats. This is probably as it should be, because potential sales of large-caliber cartridges are very small. But it’s a prestige market..."

From my earlier post: "The large bore (DG) cartridges were explained to me to be a category handled differently that the typical hunting cartridges..."

 

[spike.t]

Perhaps I should periodically clarify the topic for the newer participants...

From the original article; "There are, of course, many other old-time big bores, and a wealth of proprietaries and wildcats. This is probably as it should be, because potential sales of large-caliber cartridges are very small. But it’s a prestige market..."

From my earlier post: "The large bore (DG) cartridges were explained to me to be a category handled differently that the typical hunting cartridges..."

.....bite.............just seeing if you had a sense of humour as you come across most of the time as being waaaay too sensible and straight-laced ..........but you did say that about the rebated rims and belts......

 

[Royal27]

Variety is the spice of life...to each their own!

We have a winner!!!!

Because really, all we need is a .375 H&H. With that you can hunt any animal in the world, decent ballistics acoss the board, and really anyone can learn to shoot it. so can't we really live without ALL of the others???

 

[spike.t]

We have a winner!!!!

Because really, all we need is a .375 H&H. With that you can hunt any animal in the world, decent ballistics acoss the board, and really anyone can learn to shoot it. so can't we really live without ALL of the others???

it had to be you to bring "that" cal up didnt it..................

 

[Royal27]

it had to be you to bring "that" cal up didnt it..................

And the only bullet needed for that caliber is a 300 grain TSX. We can live without all of those other bullets too. they are just noise...

Somewhere in Jersey Mike's head just went.....

 

[FairChase]

... just seeing if you had a sense of humour as you come across most of the time as being waaaay too sensible and straight-laced... but you did say that about the rebated rims and belts......

I often find written humor/sarcasm gets interpreted different from the intent... especially when addressing a multi-national/cultural audience. In forums such as this, I usually try to be better understood and less entertaining.

Yes, I did say that about rebated rims and belts. To clarify, not on DG cartridges, but ones such as .300 Rem. SAUM (rebated) and the .300 Win. Mag. (belted).

Let the howling begin... that was humor!

 

[FairChase]

We have a winner!!!!

Because really, all we need is a .375 H&H. With that you can hunt any animal in the world, decent ballistics acoss the board, and really anyone can learn to shoot it. so can't we really live without ALL of the others???

Actually, I would choose the .375 Ruger; no antiquated belt and of course, not a rebated rim. I'm not at all certain of this, but would suspect that US-made .375 H&H cartridges MAY be offered with anemic loads as are the .30-06 cartridges; a liability issue for cartridges possibly used in 70+ year old rifles. It would make sense...

 

[Pondoro]

Because really, all we need is a .375 H&H

I beg to differ if hunting elephant without proper backup. There is still a reason for larger bores Gentlemen..

 

[Pondoro]

I'm not at all certain of this, but would suspect that US-made .375 H&H cartridges MAY be offered with anemic loads as are the .30-06 cartridges

Wrong...at least Remington and Federals ammo is good. And yes, I have used/tested them in Africa.

 

[FairChase]

I beg to differ if hunting elephant without proper backup. There is still a reason for larger bores Gentlemen..

Yes, the .416 Ruger!! We're making progress here!

 

[Pondoro]

FairChase...I agree that Rugers .375/.416 are good ideas and very promising....but try to locate ammo for them if your cartridges don't arrive in Africa...for now pretty hopeless.....perhaps not in the future..

 

[FairChase]

Wrong...at least Remington and Federals ammo is good. And yes, I have used/tested them in Africa.

How did you test them? Did you use a Chrono &/or Gel Block?
Or did you mean you "FIELD tested them"? Which makes more sense...
Nevertheless, a good question for me to ask the Reps when I'm at the SHOT Show.

 

[Pondoro]

I tested them on various PG animals...springbok, blue wildebeest, zebra and oryx. I shot about 12 wildebeest and 20 oryx. The ammo that gave best results was Federals loaded with 260 grain Nosler Accubond...that bullet is hell on wheels on PG...The old 270 grain core-locked that Remington load in .375H&H also do a good job on PG. Range 80 - 280 meters..

I also used Federals loaded with 250 grain Trophy Bonded BC..never liked it, would not shoot through blue wildebeest. I know many praise the 300 grain TBBC on DG...perhaps its good, never tried it, but the 250 was a big disappointment..

My 2 cents..

 

[Desert Dog]

Wrong...at least Remington and Federals ammo is good. And yes, I have used/tested them in Africa.

The hottest factory ammo I have sent over the chronograph in 30-06 (buffalo bore and Corbon) are about the same speed as my near-max pressure handloads with the same bullets. The hottest .375H&H factory ammo I have shot (Double Tap) is slightly faster than my preferred handload with the same bullet. Superformance is pretty darn fast too.

Yes, MOST factory loads for classic cartridges are mild compared to handloads, but not all of them and things are changing pretty fast. There has been 2 advances in technology that are changing this:

1) New powders that are temperature stable means that the chances of a load going over-pressure due to extreme heat are minimized, so the old factory ammo safety margin can be recalculated. The most modern powders will even allow an extra 100-200fps over older powders, at the same pressure! So ammo manufacturers are trending toward faster ammo at this time because they can safely do so.

2) New bullets like the TTSX and GMX are very long and rigid in comparison to lead-core bullets. This naturally makes for higher pressures and resultant higher velocities, which is good because these new bullets perform best at higher velocities. With 100% weight retention, you can step down a couple of weights and get the same terminal affect, meaning that old slow 180gr partition in 30-06 is now replaced with a flat-shooting hi-speed 150gr TTSX. These new bullets brought new life to many of the old cartridges.

So handloads will still always win at achieving maximum accuracy potential and velocities, but today's factory ammo is no slouch either, even for some of the classic cartridges like 30-06 and .375H&H.

 

[tarbe]

I beg to differ if hunting elephant without proper backup. There is still a reason for larger bores Gentlemen..

That kinda sounds like Darwin at work!

I am pretty sure Royal would agree that a 375 running solo on ele is not a good plan for most of us mortals.

 

[spike.t]

And the only bullet needed for that caliber is a 300 grain TSX. We can live without all of those other bullets too. they are just noise...

Somewhere in Jersey Mike's head just went.....

now how did you know that??? ............

 

[spike.t]

I often find written humor/sarcasm gets interpreted different from the intent... especially when addressing a multi-national/cultural audience. In forums such as this, I usually try to be better understood and less entertaining.

Yes, I did say that about rebated rims and belts. To clarify, not on DG cartridges, but ones such as .300 Rem. SAUM (rebated) and the .300 Win. Mag. (belted).

Let the howling begin... that was humor!

........ok

 

[mdbrowne]

What was that old saying????? "Ain't much a man can't fix with $700 and a 30-06." Of course, might throw in a 375 H&H for good measure.

 

[Royal27]

Actually, I would choose the .375 Ruger

Ahh.... But it wouldn't exist. Because the .375 H&H would be the only cartridge manufactured. We don't need the rest. sorry @spike.t ....

I beg to differ if hunting elephant without proper backup. There is still a reason for larger bores Gentlemen..

I mean I guess with a special permit and government sign off a .458 WM might could be manufactured on a VERY limited basis for use only by a PH as back-up for elephant. They'd probably need to be checked in/out or something....

That kinda sounds like Darwin at work!

I am pretty sure Royal would agree that a 375 running solo on ele is not a good plan for most of us mortals.

Dang straight!!!! I'd be breaking my own utopian laws and using my illegal .458 Lott on ele!!!!

now how did you know that??? ............

Because I know how annoyed you get with me on this subject even when you know I'm teasing!!!!