Can't get my rifle to shoot straight

[Hogpatrol]

Not sure what the twist is but you are right the 131 great shoot less worse than the 156 great but still not accurate...

I would try Prvi Partizan 120s.

 

[sestoppelman]

So many things could be wrong. You need a different smith to start with, fouling wasn't the answer. Likely a stock, action barrel issue. I always start with free floating the barrel so it doesn't touch the stock from receiver front onward. If that doesn't improve it glass bedding is next, but this would require a smith by the sound of it. That will take care of most accuracy issues, along with trigger work, loading etc. On the other hand it could just be a lousy barrel and might never shoot well, it happens.

 

[Graham Hunter]

So now you have a list of suggestions. Here are some more. As I own a lot of guns and have shot a ton more here is what I have found. Most of my guns, all makes and some custom shoot well. Some will shoot anything you put thru the pipe while others are better with a particular ammo. Some of the good shooters become spectacular with the proper handload. And some are only spectacular with only one specific load. And two of my rifles will only shoot Barnes TSX. Curiously they are both 8mm's. One is a 8mmag that just about went to the trash until I tried the TSX. The other is a 325 WSM that will shoot reasonably with factory ammo but is a bench gun with the TSX. If your optics are good and your bedding good and crown is good then you are left only with ammo. Bullet make and weight, powder type, seating depth and a combination of the last 3. I understand that you don't reload. See if you can find a local who is knowledgeable and ask him if he would work a load for your rifle. I am very fortunate that I have 2 very knowledgeable retired fellows who are glad to play with loads. I supply the materials and usually a cold beverage when finished and they have a reason to get out of the house. As far as internally inspecting a barrel it will only show you if there is a flaw or damage. However any top barrel maker will tell you that very rarely a perfect spec barrel won't hit a barn door from the inside. God luck.

 

[Shootist43]

What did you use to remove the copper fouling? There are only a few products that do it effectively. The two best chemical products are Bore Tech's CU +2, and KG12. I prefer the Bore Tech CU +2 because it turns the patches a bluish green when copper is present. Did this rifle always shoot poorly? Was the rifle new when you bought it? Approximately how many rounds have been fired through this barrel? Are you shooting off a sandbag or a wood 4x4 or other hard object? Have you had other shooters try their luck? The only reason I'm asking these questions is that most if not all 6.5s that I'm aware of i.e. mine & other AH members are very happy with the accuracy of their rifles.

 

[sestoppelman]

I second the above about using Barnes TSX bullets on recalcitrant rifles. I have had several rifles that just were erratic as heck and were shooting 2 MOA and when I switched to the TSX, magic! Oddly Win 760 powder seems to go hand in hand with the TSX in a couple different rifle calibers.

 

[Graham Hunter]

I also found with the TSX to seat them deep. Both of my rifles like them 50 thou off of the rifling.

 

[ZG47]

I suspect that you have a hammer-swagged barrel (marketing types call them hammer-forged BUT it is swaging and the BSA factory guys call their machine a swaging machine. Every so often, you get a bad one from that process. I had a Winchester Featherweight with the same issue.

There is one trick that might work (hammer-swaged barrel specific). Get two(2) packets of ammo, i.e. forty (40) rounds and fire them off as quickly as you can. Let the barrel cool right down and try your accuracy testing again.

By the way, 1-8 to 1-8.5 is not correct. Service rifles had a 1-200mm twist (1-7.87) and many European hunting rifles have a 1-220mm twist (1-8.66). Also, Sako used 1-10” twist for their hunting rifles, right up until the 75 series, when the boat-tail long range mania had already started.

 

[Hogpatrol]

I suspect that you have a hammer-swagged barrel (marketing types call them hammer-forged BUT it is swaging and the BSA factory guys call their machine a swaging machine. Every so often, you get a bad one from that process. I had a Winchester Featherweight with the same issue.

There is one trick that might work (hammer-swaged barrel specific). Get two(2) packets of ammo, i.e. forty (40) rounds and fire them off as quickly as you can. Let the barrel cool right down and try your accuracy testing again.

By the way, 1-8 to 1-8.5 is not correct. Service rifles had a 1-200mm twist (1-7.87) and many European hunting rifles have a 1-220mm twist (1-8.66). Also, Sako used 1-10” twist for their hunting rifles, right up until the 75 series, when the boat-tail long range mania had already started.

Please state what if any American or other current production factory rifles in a 6.5 caliber are NOT 1 in 8 or 1 in 8.5 twist. To the best of my knowledge, all are either 8.5 or 8 twist. Service rifles don't count. You say many European factory run rifles in any 6.5 caliber are 1.866. Which ones? A 1 in 10 twist rifle would keyhole all but the lightest 6.5 bullets. For 120s to 142s, at adequate velocity, an 8.5 is ideal. 8 twist would also work. I have a 6.5-284, 8 twist Brux barrel and a 6.5x47 with an 8.5 twist Brux, both very accurate with 130 and 140 gr Berger HVLDs. 150 grain class bullets are non starters. I sold a 26 Nosler with a 1 in 8 Lilja that consistently holds 1/2 moa to 500 meters. I had another 26 Nosler with an 8.5 Brux that had the same accuracy (until the barrel went south). Stick with 8 to 8.5 twist, 8 for slower velocity rounds and 8.5 for the faster cartridges.

 

[markferrigno]

The firearm may or may not be faulty. It could be the shooter, scope, rings, bases, a chamber carbon ring, ammo, how well it was cleaned and a myriad of other issues that with attention could render it an accurate firearm. Your "opinion" adds assumptions. In the end it's always Caveat Emptor.

I can confidently eliminate the shooter scopes, rings base, crown and ammo. I can see accuracy going down with some fouling it's been correctly and thoroughly cleaned.....,

 

[Graham Hunter]

I suspect that you have a hammer-swagged barrel (marketing types call them hammer-forged BUT it is swaging and the BSA factory guys call their machine a swaging machine. Every so often, you get a bad one from that process. I had a Winchester Featherweight with the same issue.

There is one trick that might work (hammer-swaged barrel specific). Get two(2) packets of ammo, i.e. forty (40) rounds and fire them off as quickly as you can. Let the barrel cool right down and try your accuracy testing again.

By the way, 1-8 to 1-8.5 is not correct. Service rifles had a 1-200mm twist (1-7.87) and many European hunting rifles have a 1-220mm twist (1-8.66). Also, Sako used 1-10” twist for their hunting rifles, right up until the 75 series, when the boat-tail long range mania had already started.

Your bullet won't know 200mm from 1in 8 or 220 from 8.5. And with 1in 10 you must be shooting BBs.

 

[markferrigno]

What did you use to remove the copper fouling? There are only a few products that do it effectively. The two best chemical products are Bore Tech's CU +2, and KG12. I prefer the Bore Tech CU +2 because it turns the patches a bluish green when copper is present. Did this rifle always shoot poorly? Was the rifle new when you bought it? Approximately how many rounds have been fired through this barrel? Are you shooting off a sandbag or a wood 4x4 or other hard object? Have you had other shooters try their luck? The only reason I'm asking these questions is that most if not all 6.5s that I'm aware of i.e. mine & other AH members are very happy with the accuracy of their rifles.

I used Bore Tech, works great. The rifle was problematic when I first got but I assumed it was the scope/base/rings as it was brand new and all my other Heyms shot great. I didn't shoot it a lot before I left Germany. Now that I have verified scope(s) rings, bases, stocks I am at a loss.

It could be what one poster mentioned, just a bad barrel. I am thinking that everything seems to point to that. I wonder if I can get someone in the US to make a barrel for the gun.

 

[Dr Ray]

I suggest you check how far the Bullets has to jump to engage the lands.
You may have to pull bullet out a tad.
Suggest you get the rifle checked for head space,bedding, and as I previously stated the Bullets jump.

 

[ZG47]

@Hogpatrol I suggest, firstly: that you adhere to the common standards of courtesy that are observed on this forum; and, secondly: do some research.

Service rifles do count, in my opinion, because there are plenty of sporterised and original Swedish M94 carbines and M96/38 military rifles in hunting and target use.

The 1-8.66 twist rate was used by BSA in their 6.5x55 rifles, it is used by CZUB who supply barrels to other gunmakers and by Voere. USRAC used 1-8.66” barrels for their 6.5x55 Featherweight Model 70 rifles. It was printed on the factory swing-tag.

You should also be honest in what you are talking about. I always endeavour to be and ... yes, I make the occasional slip when posting whilst tired. You are talking, in your intemperate post (reply #28) about twist rates for VLD bullets (but do not elect to make that clear), Such bullets are, and in all probability will remain, a specialised, as opposed to common, type of projectile for hunting with 6.5x55SE rifles. Yes, 1-8 is a very good choice for target rifle and other long range shooting with VLD bullets BUT be honest about the context that you are referring to and do not try to bully me or anyone else. I do not bow down to libellous language nor I am afraid of tackling abusive language and/or behaviour.

The 1-10’ twist rate obviously worked perfectly well for hunters in Scandinavian forests, because, not only did Sako use it for their two-lug hunting rifles; Norma also used it in the Norma rifles that they sold in the late 1980s. Norma needed a way to keep their gunsmiths busy in the off-season and taking in outside repair work was not sufficient, so ... they sporterised some Swedish military actions, fitted them with Schultz and Larsen 1-10’ twist barrels and fitted them in sporterised stocks. All those rifles have jewelled bolts and the stocks carry medallions with the Norma logo. They were beautiful stalking (NOT TARGET) rifles and I wish that I had had the spare cash to buy one when the then Norma agent imported some to New Zealand.

State your context clearly, be courteous in your language and I will be happy to debate with you. Have a good week.

 

[Hogpatrol]

@Z467.Your argument may have had some validity 50 years ago but this is 2018. Bullets and barrels have come a long way. Most of what you stated is outdated and no longer applicable to today's firearms market. Long bullets have become the norm, especially in 6.5 caliber. Not only VLDs of various brands (yes, other bullet manufacturers have copied Berger's VLDs) but bullets with ballistic tips which are also longer, are in wide use. We can debate twist all day long but in the long run, an 8 or 8.5 will will give optimum ballistic efficiency in just about every factory ammo bullet and with few exceptions, most custom ones. From where I sit utilizing the maximum capability, accuracy and killing power of the bullet is the goal of any round and any reduction in twist that it was designed for doesn't make sense. As far as the rifles with 1-10 twist, as another poster stated, they'd be ok for shooting BBs.
Your advice about firing forty rounds quickly isn't going to do any good for barrel life either.

re: my response to your original post, I asked questions and stated facts. Good grief man, don't go all snowflake on us. We got enough of that shit in this country.

 

[Hogpatrol]

I used Bore Tech, works great. The rifle was problematic when I first got but I assumed it was the scope/base/rings as it was brand new and all my other Heyms shot great. I didn't shoot it a lot before I left Germany. Now that I have verified scope(s) rings, bases, stocks I am at a loss.

It could be what one poster mentioned, just a bad barrel. I am thinking that everything seems to point to that. I wonder if I can get someone in the US to make a barrel for the gun.

To your question, yes! There are many world class barrel makers in this country. Bartlein, Brux, Lilja, Muller, Shilen, Pac-Nor, Rock Creek, Schneider, Hawk Hill, and amongst others all make quality barrels. I've built rifles with the first six and never had a bad one (I'm partial to Brux). With handloads, all are extremely accurate and I don't doubt they'd be too shabby with factory fodder. Depending on smith charges and barrel contour and style, ballpark you are looking between six to eight hundred dollars for barrel, chambering and crowning.
Having said that, I'd see what response you get from Heym beforehand. If the barrel is defective, there may be some remuneration in the mix to pay for a new barrel.
Whatever the decision, I hope you get it figured out. That's a lot of money to pay for frustration.

 

[markferrigno]

Thanks for all the great suggestions

 

[Hogpatrol]

Thanks for all the great suggestions

Please let us know the final disposition/solution to your accuracy problems. TIA

 

[markferrigno]

Please let us know the final disposition/solution to your accuracy problems. TIA

Will do, I am shipping it off to JJ Perodeau to have it looked it

 

[greyfox]

There you go Mark, Smart man, Take it to a Professional. Otherwise you'd spend a lot more time, $$ and headaches listening to people trying to diagnose on the internet.

FWIW: My $$ is on scope/mount or bedding.

 

[Von S.]

If you brought your rifle to me the first thing i would ask is if it ever shot right.

If you answered yes, my next question would be, what did you do to it, because after years of fixing boom sticks ,about 99 % of the problems are operator induced.