Bullet suggestion for heart / lung shot on Elephant?

Thanks for everything Fordy.
Got any thoughts on Cup Points from North Fork ?
(highjack returns)

AES likes those Woodleigh HYDRO bullets.
Promoted for elephant they were.
If I can ever find any of the 400-gr/.458 HYDRO,
I might devise a comparison of it to the CEB 400-gr/.458 Safari Solid,
if Michael 458 has not already done it.
2500 fps MV from a 458 WIN MAG for starters.
 
Gday riflecrank
The cup point of north fork & the hydro is a very interesting process & one that both of these pills although similar looks are completely different on tough resistances

Ea produce more of a report back from impacting the critter but one that we need to understand what’s occurring @ different resistances & velocity impact is one of the most important parts

I’ll go to the 375 cal as most information I’ve got on these
the 300 gr hydro will kill ok on bovines across multiple angles although the impact to tip is not that quick
Move that to the cps of north fork & on the non paunch shots the cps is a slightly better killer
But now you move the hydro down in weight to the 235 hydro & get this pill cranking & watch that pill show a impact to tip that leaves both of these pills above in its tracks on the chest shots but once again the paunch shot like these
E082BC37-B789-4EA7-8720-9711723071C4.jpeg
will sort so many pills out & one that is a great test of a pill’s abilities to kill well ( yes I hear it’s not a advisable shot & one I relay on extreme caution but that’s due to the bullets ability & us not understanding it !!! & using a appropriate one for this that “will occur” shot if one shoots enough & that’s with respect but clarification needed before a blanket should be applied so another time on that if anyones interested ) & here is where you see velocity come into the mix as you impact that 235 gr hydro 400 fps more & it is one that bovines don’t like but now we get to a pill that’s capable on some of those angles / resistances & why the hydro is somewhat neither here nor there along with the cps somewhat ( that’s a part that needs a lot of discussion on )

The hydro first
The 300 gr is really just to slow out of the h&h to give the better kills like the 235 gr but lack of penertration is one that when that occurs you’ll wish you went with the greater penetration ability of the 300

Out of the 375rum we now somewhat take things to a new level on both pills & the key is you will still get that cup stay somewhat to form as designed but once again the lack of penetration of the 235 shows & the 300 just can’t be pushed fast enough to gain the wounds that can be achieved by ticking over to the next velocity bracket up for better killing but if one was to do a midweight of ?270 gr you’ll get that speed & enough penetration ( here’s another great discussion on less than , enough , capable , adequate or above adequate penertration & really should be examined & that I’m searching on elephant as no idea but the knowledgeable ones do & that’s who we should take note of imo ) with the better wound channels

Now the cps is totally different & why the use on elephant is not advised from what the knowledgeable ones advise & I’ll go along with them as it shows in bovines as why the caution is applied

The speed first
This part is nothing new the faster they go the more the nose flattens & less
penertration occurs but here’s the kicker one that due to the movement of the alloy on the cup where the hydro withstands those pressures it’s basically in my mind why the hydro can handle elephant where the north fork cps is flaunt with danger

Move to bovines the cps does well but the likes of the woodleigh weldcore will kill more effectively but nothing kills as well as a good well balanced shedding mono but these also as the above lack penetration of the various wound zones we see different styles produce & that is the one must truly understand but man alive it’s hard to put it all together in one package

For bovines or like that’s easy a dual load
Elephant as discussed due to the potential on the dime movement one should air on extreme caution of a pill that is compromised in its nose on way to terminal form you could be in for a very bad time so a good solid is it

The big unanswered question in my mind on the way I’m seeing the difference is how much bigger the wounds are from the cup meplat vrs the FN of that cup point once flattened out
That I’ve not got enough hard evidence yet on as not used enough of the cps but it’s showing that overall the more consistent wounds are going to the hydro & especially as the speed is increased & one I’m trying to nut out more but struggling to find enough cps over here & one I forgot to pick up some on my last trip to Africa but also I’ve seen overall I’m better concentrating on what direction I’m currently heading & that has really sprooked up my interest on what can occur & one is best left for another day

In conclusion I say go for it as even if it doesn’t work out I believe our understanding improves but yes I agree with if @michael458 hasn’t done it as i recently found out that man has done a little bit more than he puts out publicly

So when is the book coming out Michael lol :)
Cheers
 
Ya'll please let us know if any Woodleigh HYDROs are being sold in USA.
Raven Rocks Precision is supposed to be the USA "stockist."
 
Last edited:
If I can ever find any of the 400-gr/.458 HYDRO,
I might devise a comparison of it to the CEB 400-gr/.458 Safari Solid,
if Michael 458 has not already done it.
2500 fps MV from a 458 WIN MAG for starters.
Yep...... I have those tests. However I am not satisfied with either test to be honest. Basic results are that the 400 #13 Solid does out penetrate the 400 Hydro at around 2300 fps. The 400 Hydro test was 1 bullet, and I have a bug in my butt that there were some anomalies I can't account for. The 400 #13 Solid test was the .600 nose projection, and I expected about 2-3 inches more depth, but did not get it. So I would want to retest that with the .700 nose projection. I have probably shown these in the past in comparison with something else, but in reality I would like to retest both of these to either confirm or update. Also, while 2300 fps is reasonable, we have the capability to hit well above 2500 fps to check that as well. Before making big declarations, I would rather retest both of these.

What I can easily state is that the 400 #13 .700 nose projection will penetrate deeper than the 400 Hydro at the same velocity, that is a given. In addition to that, I would say the Hydro will destroy more medium/tissue than the #13 Solid, by some margin, but not extreme, and no where close to a Trauma Inflicting bullet such as the Raptor. To get exact numbers, I would call for a retest of both.
 
Excellent, Michael458.
I'll be lurking about looking for any of your past results with
same weight and caliber (whatever they are)
for both a CEB Safari Solid and a HYDRO
at similar velocity.
Thanks.
 
Some more bullet pics from Zimbabwe, another hunter in camp brought down a bull elephant; over the course of 9 days they walked over 90mi looking for this bull only to shoot it less than a mile from camp.

All bullets shown were fired from .375H&H rifles(hunter & apprentice PH) and all to the body .
None of the PH's .458win projectiles were recovered to my knowledge.

The hunter was using CPS
IMG_3628.jpg



The apprentice joined in and was using a combination of CEB & Barnes RN
IMG_3643.jpg
 

Forum statistics

Threads
62,191
Messages
1,365,643
Members
118,804
Latest member
LeliaLaver
 

 

 

Latest profile posts

NEW ZEALAND SAFARIS wrote on Djei5's profile.
Afternoon I just received a message but cannot find the text sorry, how can I help?
csmith wrote on 19_A_CPT's profile.
Not sure your price range. Have a 375 H&H with a muzzle brake. Nice rifle only fired a few times. Also a Mossberg 375 Ruger its been used and shows a few hunts on it.
Two African Safaris Hunted South Africa both times,
9 game animals taken
Has anybody hunted with Phumba safari in steenbokpan south Africa?
 
Top