Bullet Jump

[375 Ruger Fan]

Most of my reloading efforts to date have been focused on power selection and charge weight. The scarcity of powder makes that part easy, whatever I happen to have on hand. Charge weight, comes from a couple loading manuals, online sources, pet loads from others, etc.

Bullet jump is something I really haven't played with, but have read many comments on AH and other places. One of my reloading mentors told me to start at 20 thousandths off lands and find a powder load that gives you a good SD and ES. Then start increasing the jump by 3-5 thousandths.

Being an engineering nerd, I've done some Google research and came across an interesting article. It has numerous embedded links and videos. More than anyone needs to know about bullet jump! But it is quite interesting. It's really more for 1000 yard bench shooters, but interesting stuff.

Bullet Jump Research: Executive Summary & Load Development Tips

This is the last post in a series of articles focused on bullet jump research that has been conduct...

precisionrifleblog.com

 

[crs]

Agreed that "bullet jump" may be more important for long range shooters, but I have personally never seen a bullet "jump" !
I think the term is not well understood and often misused. Therefore, I do not use it and believe it should always be defined when used.

 

[Joker12]

In over 50 years of hand loading I have never found bullet jump to greatly affect the accuracy of hunting ammo. Winchester pre64 458WMs and most Weatherbys had about 1/4 inch of what they called freebore and also a reputation for being accurate rifles. Perhaps it does matter for the 1000yd shooters or for those who play the extreme accuracy games but that's not my interest in shooting. When we consider shooting from field positions I think trying to squeeze the last 1/10 inch of accuracy out many times at the expense of absolute reliability is a bit foolish. If those of us who hunt with our rifles are honest we surely must know that a rifle that consistently shoots under 2 inch groups without changing point of impact is plenty accurate for our uses. I have many that will do better but for hunting game animals its just not that important.

 

[Forrest Halley]

@375 Ruger Fan just wanted to take this opportunity to thank you for feeding my OCD. The most eye opening part is about the bearing surface case mouth relationship. I never gave too much thought to this when I was running them out longer than normal, but I sure will now.

 

[TucsonFX4]

In over 50 years of hand loading I have never found bullet jump to greatly affect the accuracy of hunting ammo. Winchester pre64 458WMs and most Weatherbys had about 1/4 inch of what they called freebore and also a reputation for being accurate rifles. Perhaps it does matter for the 1000yd shooters or for those who play the extreme accuracy games but that's not my interest in shooting. When we consider shooting from field positions I think trying to squeeze the last 1/10 inch of accuracy out many times at the expense of absolute reliability is a bit foolish. If those of us who hunt with our rifles are honest we surely must know that a rifle that consistently shoots under 2 inch groups without changing point of impact is plenty accurate for our uses. I have many that will do better but for hunting game animals its just not that important.

Don’t forget that not everyone hunts the same animals in the same environment. A whitetail hunter in the woods of WI has a different need for long range accuracy than someone hunting Pronghorn out west. So assuming your 2” group comment is at 100 yards, that’s 6” at 300 yards and starting to push ethical accuracy limits on smaller big game. There are a lot of western big game hunters that would be thrilled with an opportunity to take a shot that is “only” 300 yards away. Perhaps I missed the context of what you were trying to communicate, but I hunt in an environment that necessitates being prepared for shots longer than 300 yards, so a 2 moa group is not acceptable to me.

 

[shootist~]

I've followed the PRB blog for a number of years and find them informative and interesting reading. In fact, it was stumbling across one of his posts about hunting in Africa that lead me to do a safari.

 

[BourbonTrail]

PRB is awesome, and I think I have previously read that article about 4 times. Always fun to see peoples’ reaction to something on that blog.

 

[crs]

Tuscon,
I have shot Pronghorns from 10 yards out to about 300 yards. Most however have been 100 yards or less in New Mexico and the Texas Panhandle. All have been one shoot kills with calibers from .264 to .45 .
I choose not to hunt where only very long shots are needed or to maneuver to within whatever range is reasonable for my rifle. A couple years back during lunch on a hunt near Dalhart, one of the hunters was bragging about telling his guide NOT to get him closer than 400 yards. Needless to say, that killed all rational conversation at that table.

 

[Firebird]

IMO Bullet jump started to become more of an issue with longer, heavy for caliber bullets that we intended to shoot long distance.
long distance is a subjective term and NOT limited to the west where I live. The “bean field rifle” was built for whitetails, not antelope. . .
if you have unlimited components it’s fun to squeeze every last bit of potential from each rifle and load-but in today’s situation, you just do as much as you are able.

 

[SFRanger7GP]

Bullet jump or lengthened OAL as some may call it, may help or may not. Like everything, it depends. For the past few years, I have only loaded for hunting. So, procedures that help for accuracy may hinder reliability. The rounds must feed and eject reliably first and foremost.

I measure the OAL for all my rifles with each bullet I will use. For magazine fed rifles, the magazine will also play into max available OAL.

Seating the bullet closer also adds powder space. Space that can come in handy to avoid over compressed powder, especially with long for caliber bullets and black powder cartridge loads.

My wife's 275 is a 2 MOA for 3 shots with any factory ammunition except for 175gr bullet loads. It is MOA or less for 5 shots when I seat the bullets out further. Measurements show it to have a very long throat similar to old 7x57 specs.

Sometimes these tricks can help, sometimes it doesn't matter. Many rifles with a long throat don't seem to know bullet jump makes a difference with accuracy. Weatherby comes to mind.

Safe shooting.

 

[Vintageguy]

I was taught, 40 years ago, to “load to the lands”. I learned early that for hunting loads this was bad instruction and is totally misplaced with modern monolithic bullets, not to mention dangerous. Now I start with establishing exact distance to the lands on every rifle I reload for but when I work a new load I always start with the manual’s COAL for each and see what accuracy I get. I have to say that the vast majority of the time I get sub moa with that and if not then I start tweaking length but after I try different powder and charges. I will add here that after years of experience with my rifles and calibers I have a very good idea of where to start and what they like. But I already know how much room I have and rifling marks on the bullet are not what I want to see. I typically never get shots beyond 200 and have no interest in anything beyond 400. That’s my personal choice and preference, to each their own but stalking close is a main appeal to me.
With costs and scarcity of components I’m sticking to my current recipes except for some of my loads involving A-Frames, come on Swift.

 

[TucsonFX4]

Tuscon,
I have shot Pronghorns from 10 yards out to about 300 yards. Most however have been 100 yards or less in New Mexico and the Texas Panhandle. All have been one shoot kills with calibers from .264 to .45 .
I choose not to hunt where only very long shots are needed or to maneuver to within whatever range is reasonable for my rifle. A couple years back during lunch on a hunt near Dalhart, one of the hunters was bragging about telling his guide NOT to get him closer than 400 yards. Needless to say, that killed all rational conversation at that table.

I completely agree, and as you eluded to, it’s not fun or believable to be around someone that is trying to brag about something ridiculous. My point, which applies to everyone including myself, is everyone should have a basic comprehension that each person has their own unique hunting environment, needs, capabilities, limitations, etc.

It is ridiculous to say that every reloader should be shooting 1/4” groups out of their hunting rifle. Conversely, universally applying standards of not needing a hunting rifle to be any more accurate than XX amount of inches at 200 yards, etc is equally narrow-minded. I’m definitely not trying to say anyones experiences or opinions are wrong or don’t apply to themselves, just trying to say that it is possible for different folks to hunt by different standards or expectations, and still be ethical.

 

[C.W. Richter]

Seating depth/C.O.A.L. is often the MOST important part of handloading, with respect to end result accuracy!!! Many factory guns are limited to std COAL by virtue of the magazine length. 'Great points raised re: precision accuracy with constant adjustment due to bbl erosion vs. finding the best happy medium which preserves the bbl. My 264 WSM is the posterchild of what's summarized in the article you provided! (It's new bbl time-after 2,000+ rds and seating adjustments over the years.)

 

[Vintageguy]

Too coincidental not to post. After my post of how I always start off loading to C.O.A.L. per the specific bullet in its manual I went and fired this test group. It’s 3shots from a 30-06 fired through my old 1935 Winchester 54. 150grain tsx and IMR 4895 powder. No need to test any further, LOL. Wish it always went like this. I use a 100 yard zero because where I live and hunt in Virginia a 200 yard shot would be very rare.

 

[C.W. Richter]

Too coincidental not to post. After my post of how I always start off loading to C.O.A.L. per the specific bullet in its manual I went and fired this test group. It’s a 30-06 fired through my old 1935 Winchester 54. 150grain tsx and IMR 4895 powder. No need to test any further, LOL. Wish it always went like this. I use a 100 yard zero because where I live and hunt in Virginia a 200 yard shot would be very rare.

With Wby guns, because they sell their own (Norma) tailored ammo., one can simply buy a box of that (or measure COAL at the store,) and you'll be close to a homerun! I think most of the '06 cartridges are 3.340" and Wby has seated them out to 3.3625". I have some custom guns that shoot factory COAL well, simply because they were precision engineered with the bbl set just right for that dimension (using most bullets-the longer, VLD points will protrude farther into the chamber and eat up more mag space.) Sometimes we get lucky, too, but I'd bet that your '34 54 was built with a greater degree of quality (not so much quantity as today.)

 

[C.W. Richter]

I completely agree, and as you eluded to, it’s not fun or believable to be around someone that is trying to brag about something ridiculous. My point, which applies to everyone including myself, is everyone should have a basic comprehension that each person has their own unique hunting environment, needs, capabilities, limitations, etc.

It is ridiculous to say that every reloader should be shooting 1/4” groups out of their hunting rifle. Conversely, universally applying standards of not needing a hunting rifle to be any more accurate than XX amount of inches at 200 yards, etc is equally narrow-minded. I’m definitely not trying to say anyones experiences or opinions are wrong or don’t apply to themselves, just trying to say that it is possible for different folks to hunt by different standards or expectations, and still be ethical.

Although based upon my life experience (incl. v. long farmfields to practice shooting 4" wide woodchucks for bigger things in the future,) I like to be prepared with the right tool for the job at hand, it's (world supreme bowhunter) Chuck Adams that put it best: Whatever distance you can consistently put shots into a pie plate, is your effective range on game! I recall factory ammo shooting 2" groups, roughly (in factory guns-the issue can be on either side, or both,) but, even that is 4" at 200, and a pie plate at 300 (open sight lever guns, 1/2-2/3 that distance). Yes? Now, that 0.5" avg. group will get you out to 650 easily, and some guns/handloads shoot much better than that so <1,000 for hunting purposes (using appropriate cartridges/bullets). Most do not have the tools, facilities and skills to pull that off, but it surely can be done when warranted (TX Aoudad, Asian Sheep/Goats, off-season varmint practice.) Though I love my beloved longer range (yet short/light) mtn rifles, never do I say "let's just shoot from here," when we all know we can get closer, for a better, more certain shot. (And if we're at home, or have 9 days left, there will always be another day. And, if you really care about wildlife conservation, you're not there to shoot anything. You're there for the experience, the culture, to put all of your skills to the test, and if God is smiling down upon you (like Timney says in its entertaining mailers, invoices, notes, etc.) what is meant to happen, will happen. I must admit, when i see the 28" bbl or the silencer bringing it to a full 3', I throw up in my mouth a little bit. That makes no sense in 90% of the places I've ever hunted. If 1 shot is going to scare all the game or bother a neighbor, I simply don't wish to be in those places...Never a finer sound than a high-powered rifle (not a 6.5 needmore) echoing through the valleys or canyons upon taking the shot. Ethical one day may be 750 yds at a Barbary Sheep in TX in clear/sunny conditions, but that may quickly become 200 yds in a blinding snowstorm in the N. US. (or Asia.) 'Saw a program last night where some relative youngsters took lever action guns to hunt B. Sheep in their native Alberta. I was so impressed, 'called my Son to discuss...They knew the territory from earlier hunting, and figured out how to get close.

 

[gillettehunter]

My hunting rifles all shoot MOA or better. Some of the other posters have mentioned the need for accuracy when shooting longer distances. Like it or not there are places where almost every shoot opportunity is going to be over 300 yds. Try public land pronghorn in WY 2 weeks into the season...... If your hunting style doesn't require that level of accuracy that's fine. Some of us will spend a bit of time and effort to get sub MOA. Do what works for you. We'll do what works for us.
Bruce

 

[Robmill70]

Most of my reloading efforts to date have been focused on power selection and charge weight. The scarcity of powder makes that part easy, whatever I happen to have on hand. Charge weight, comes from a couple loading manuals, online sources, pet loads from others, etc.

Bullet jump is something I really haven't played with, but have read many comments on AH and other places. One of my reloading mentors told me to start at 20 thousandths off lands and find a powder load that gives you a good SD and ES. Then start increasing the jump by 3-5 thousandths.

Being an engineering nerd, I've done some Google research and came across an interesting article. It has numerous embedded links and videos. More than anyone needs to know about bullet jump! But it is quite interesting. It's really more for 1000 yard bench shooters, but interesting stuff.

Bullet Jump Research: Executive Summary & Load Development Tips

This is the last post in a series of articles focused on bullet jump research that has been conduct...

precisionrifleblog.com

I only deal with it on my long range guns. If you're just hunting out to 300 yards like most, I wouldn't even worry about it. Each gun is different though, my 6.5 CM likes .015 off and my 6.5 SKAD likes to be jammed up onto the lands. Just gotta play with it.

 

[Inline6]

COAL is not a good measurement. Sure you need it to confirm if it will fit in a mag. That is about all it's good for. You need to measure the ogive to the lands. That is the only constant way to know where you are at in relationships to be lands, change lot number on you bullets better check again. It's a how far do you want to chase the rabbit, the hole is deep. Different bullet profiles will also react differently to jump, a VLD will not like as much as say a hybrid. Hornady makes the tool along with others that allow the means to make that measurement happen.

 

[C.W. Richter]

My hunting rifles all shoot MOA or better. Some of the other posters have mentioned the need for accuracy when shooting longer distances. Like it or not there are places where almost every shoot opportunity is going to be over 300 yds. Try public land pronghorn in WY 2 weeks into the season...... If your hunting style doesn't require that level of accuracy that's fine. Some of us will spend a bit of time and effort to get sub MOA. Do what works for you. We'll do what works for us.
Bruce

1st antelope: WY. crawled a long way to the end of the high grass. animals walking, 430 yds. .264 WSM (straight down.) chip shot as that gun shoots 1-hole groups. no different than shooting 100 yds if the gun is accurized properly.