Building a Rifle on a Tight Budget

[fourfive8]

Both of those CRF Win 70 actions are from the New Haven era between the CRF reintroduction in 1992 and the FN takeover in 2006. Easy to tell because the triggers are old style M 70 triggers. FN Win 70, post New Haven triggers are a boxed style trigger. Those two actions are absolutely excellent for building custom rifles and have IMO the best hunting rifle trigger ever designed,

 

[Ontario Hunter]

Typically you will need to repaint wet stripper coats several times before removing. Use warm water and a small brass brush to scrub off stripper laden with stock finish. It will be gassy so do it in a well ventilated area. May take several attempts to get all the finish off.

 

[WI-2021]

Typically you will need to repaint wet stripper coats several times before removing. Use warm water and a small brass brush to scrub off stripper laden with stock finish. It will be gassy so do it in a well ventilated area. May take several attempts to get all the finish off.

Thank you. That will be my next attempt. Last time I only applied a single coat and it appeared to remove a very thin skin of finish. Next time I'll coat it multiple times and let it work longer. I'm really hoping to avoid doing much sanding since the stock is in great condition and doesn't need it if I can get the finish off by chemical means. Ventilation isn't a problem as long as the weather is half decent; I have overhead doors on both ends of my shop and plenty of fans. This is some rather nasty stuff.

 

[WI-2021]

Both of those CRF Win 70 actions are from the New Haven era between the CRF reintroduction in 1992 and the FN takeover in 2006. Easy to tell because the triggers are old style M 70 triggers. FN Win 70, post New Haven triggers are a boxed style trigger. Those two actions are absolutely excellent for building custom rifles and have IMO the best hunting rifle trigger ever designed,

Thank you. I am rather curious exactly when they were made, but it's not particularly important as long as I know the general time frame for parts compatibility. I am rather curious what Winchester would have to say about them, but they'd probably be none too happy about them being in the wild due to the lack of heat treat. FWIW, I plan to use the factory triggers on these. A bit of stoning may happen, depending on how they feel once they're built. A lot of this build will be new to me, but I'm confident in my ability to stone a trigger.

My initial goal for the first build will be a slightly improved Safari Express. "Improvements" (quotes because they're all subjective) will be the stock finish and bluing, assuming I don't screw them up, a better recoil pad, and I'll use NECG express sights and barrel band. As much as I like quarter ribs, I'll probably skip it on this one since it will be scoped. Really a pretty basic build. Any engraving or custom walnut would only happen later, if ever. Just to introduce a bit of sacrilege, I'll also thread it for a suppressor. Whether one is ever installed remains to be seen, but the threads will be there and the front sight will be set back accordingly. I'll do a thread protector that matches the barrel profile to pretty it up a bit.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

Thank you. That will be my next attempt. Last time I only applied a single coat and it appeared to remove a very thin skin of finish. Next time I'll coat it multiple times and let it work longer. I'm really hoping to avoid doing much sanding since the stock is in great condition and doesn't need it if I can get the finish off by chemical means. Ventilation isn't a problem as long as the weather is half decent; I have overhead doors on both ends of my shop and plenty of fans. This is some rather nasty stuff.

Rinsing with water will raise the grain and you'll have to take the "fuzz" off. You'll have to rinse with water or the residue of stripper will erode new finish. You can use steel wool to take off the fuzz. Better than sandpaper.

 

[WI-2021]

Rinsing with water will raise the grain and you'll have to take the "fuzz" off. You'll have to rinse with water or the residue of stripper will erode new finish. You can use steel wool to take off the fuzz. Better than sandpaper.

Thanks again for the tip. I've done a fair bit of woodworking, to include building an electric guitar, but this is my first experience with stripping and refinishing a rifle stock. I presume 0000 steel wool would be preferred to knock off the fuzz? Degreased, of course.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

Thanks again for the tip. I've done a fair bit of woodworking, to include building an electric guitar, but this is my first experience with stripping and refinishing a rifle stock. I presume 0000 steel wool would be preferred to knock off the fuzz? Degreased, of course.

000 will work. Only lightly touch checkering. You can use a hot clothes iron tip against a wet rag to steam up dents.

 

[WI-2021]

Yesterday morning I went out to the garage, put "Pour Some Sugar On Me" on repeat, and practiced my stripping. No, not like that....

It's working, but slowly. I tried heat as well, which didn't do much. Patience will be required. The finish on these M70 stocks is definitely catalyzed and I can only imagine it would have been pretty bomb-proof if I'd have left it alone. For better or for worse, I can't leave anything alone though if I think it can be improved. The factory finish definitely hid the grain quite a bit. I'm now contemplating trying to recut the checkering. What's there is grippy, but not pretty. I'd keep the same pattern, or at least try to, but this would introduce another element of risk since I've never attempted it before.

The suspicion is creeping up on me that I may have jumped into a deeper rabbit-hole than I anticipated but I'll proceed slowly. No homemade custom stocks or self-taught engraving.... yet.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

Yesterday morning I went out to the garage, put "Pour Some Sugar On Me" on repeat, and practiced my stripping. No, not like that....

It's working, but slowly. I tried heat as well, which didn't do much. Patience will be required. The finish on these M70 stocks is definitely catalyzed and I can only imagine it would have been pretty bomb-proof if I'd have left it alone. For better or for worse, I can't leave anything alone though if I think it can be improved. The factory finish definitely hid the grain quite a bit. I'm now contemplating trying to recut the checkering. What's there is grippy, but not pretty. I'd keep the same pattern, or at least try to, but this would introduce another element of risk since I've never attempted it before.

The suspicion is creeping up on me that I may have jumped into a deeper rabbit-hole than I anticipated but I'll proceed slowly. No homemade custom stocks or self-taught engraving.... yet.

Don't use heat. It makes the stripper evaporate quicker. Expect four or five attempts before the finish all comes off. Again, use a small brass bristle brush and warm water to scrub off stripper.

Let's see what the checkering looks like.

 

[WI-2021]

Don't use heat. It makes the stripper evaporate quicker. Expect four or five attempts before the finish all comes off. Again, use a small brass bristle brush and warm water to scrub off stripper.

Let's see what the checkering looks like.

I tried heat without stripper on the stock in the hopes that it would help the finish release. No dice. I've been using a plastic bristled brush with a reasonable level of success so far since the only brass brushes I have are pretty beat. I'm rather surprised that the stripper isn't breaking down the plastic brushes, but I'm not complaining. It definitely did a number on the plastic putty knife I initially tried. Progress continues. 4-5 coats may be optimistic; this finish is really tough, but it's letting go with time and elbow grease. Once it's gone, I plan to give it a bath in mineral spirits to wash the stripper and any other contaminants away. I have a planter box that I used to soak guns in to remove cosmoline back in my mil-surp days that it will fit in. The final finish will be BLO and I'll fill the grain with sanding dust. I've done oil finishes before on other things, but usually tung oil.

The checkering is currently swimming in paint stripper, but I'll post pics after I get the finish off. The good news is that the plastic brush doesn't seem to be harming the checkering. The bad news is that it was kind of flattened to begin with. I have a few books on the subject, but no experience and no tools. If I tackle it, it will be a learning experience. I'm also kicking around the idea of an ebony grip cap and fore-end tip. There's that rabbit-hole again....

 

[Ontario Hunter]

I tried heat without stripper on the stock in the hopes that it would help the finish release. No dice. I've been using a plastic bristled brush with a reasonable level of success so far since the only brass brushes I have are pretty beat. I'm rather surprised that the stripper isn't breaking down the plastic brushes, but I'm not complaining. It definitely did a number on the plastic putty knife I initially tried. Progress continues. 4-5 coats may be optimistic; this finish is really tough, but it's letting go with time and elbow grease. Once it's gone, I plan to give it a bath in mineral spirits to wash the stripper and any other contaminants away. I have a planter box that I used to soak guns in to remove cosmoline back in my mil-surp days that it will fit in.

The checkering is currently swimming in paint stripper, but I'll post pics after I get the finish off. The good news is that the plastic brush doesn't seem to be harming the checkering. The bad news is that it was kind of flattened to begin with. I have a few books on the subject, but no experience and no tools. If I tackle it, it will be a learning experience. I'm also kicking around the idea of an ebony grip cap and fore-end tip. There's that rabbit-hole again....

Mineral spirits will NOT get all the finish and stripper removed, especially out of the grain. Hardware stores or craft shops should have the brass bristle brushes. These days it is getting harder to find good stripper. The environmentally friendly shit made of orange juice has taken over the market. I would suggest for the next stock that you use a dull knife blade dragged across the wood to chip off the old finish. Many production rifles have acrylic finish. It can be sprayed on and dries quick so less issues with dust. But that crap is a pain in the butt to strip off. However, relatively easy to chip off because it's brittle.

I made this grip cap from block of zebrawood. My first attempt. Not for the faint of heart. Dad's old Shopsmith was essential for the task.

 

[WI-2021]

Mineral spirits will NOT get all the finish and stripper removed, especially out of the grain. Hardware stores or craft shops should have the brass bristle brushes. These days it is getting harder to find good stripper. The environmentally friendly shit made of orange juice has taken over the market. I would suggest for the next stock that you use a dull knife blade dragged across the wood to chip off the old finish. Many production rifles have acrylic finish. It can be sprayed on and dries quick so less issues with dust. But that crap is a pain in the butt to strip off. However, relatively easy to chip off because it's brittle.

I made this grip cap from block of zebrawood. My first attempt. Not for the faint of heart. Dad's old Shopsmith was essential for the task.
View attachment 671949

Thanks again! If there's any finish left tomorrow I'll pick up a few brass brushes on my way home from work. FWIW, the Citrustrip does seem to work, but the nasty Jasco stuff does work better. I have lacquer thinner too, which seems to mostly remove the stripper, just not enough to bathe the stock in. I'm pretty sure this isn't acrylic; it seems way too tough, but next time I'll try scraping to be sure. I did scuff sand it with 150 grit prior to applying the stripper with the idea that it would give the stripper more surface area to work on. Things are progressing a bit more quickly now as the finish breaks down. Still an exercise in patience; an area in which I'm generally lacking.

I have a Shopsmith too; I bought mine from my wife's uncle when he got older and couldn't get out in his shop as much anymore. According to my research, mine was made in 1951. I mostly use it as a drill press and occasionally a lathe, but I have a pile of other accessories for it. I'm curious how you went about doing your fore-end tip and possibly grip cap (can't see that in the pic). I was thinking of just cutting my fore-end straight and adding the tip. I may also add a contrasting wood spacer just for fun. That depends on what the stock looks like after stripping and a few coats of oil. Squaring everything up will no doubt require fixturing. My grip cap area has a bit of a radius on it, so i need to figure out how to get that flat without screwing it up too.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

Thanks again! If there's any finish left tomorrow I'll pick up a few brass brushes on my way home from work. FWIW, the Citrustrip does seem to work, but the nasty Jasco stuff does work better. I have lacquer thinner too, which seems to mostly remove the stripper, just not enough to bathe the stock in. I'm pretty sure this isn't acrylic; it seems way too tough, but next time I'll try scraping to be sure. I did scuff sand it with 150 grit prior to applying the stripper with the idea that it would give the stripper more surface area to work on. Things are progressing a bit more quickly now as the finish breaks down. Still an exercise in patience; an area in which I'm generally lacking.

I have a Shopsmith too; I bought mine from my wife's uncle when he got older and couldn't get out in his shop as much anymore. According to my research, mine was made in 1951. I mostly use it as a drill press and occasionally a lathe, but I have a pile of other accessories for it. I'm curious how you went about doing your fore-end tip and possibly grip cap (can't see that in the pic). I was thinking of just cutting my fore-end straight and adding the tip. I may also add a contrasting wood spacer just for fun. That depends on what the stock looks like after stripping and a few coats of oil. Squaring everything up will no doubt require fixturing. My grip cap area has a bit of a radius on it, so i need to figure out how to get that flat without screwing it up too.

Build a jig to chop off the fore end tip flat. Simply use a piece of scrap dimension lumber and a straight edge and ruler to draw a strait line lengthwise down the middle of the board (make sure the line is exactly the same distance from one side of the board). I carried the line over the end of the board (you'll see why). Then use long screws to attach the stock (through action screw holes in bottom metal) upside down onto the board with screws in the line. Use a square at line over end of the board to make sure the bottom of stock's barrel channel is aligned with the pencil line. Then you can use either a chop saw or radial arm saw to make your cut with the board against the saw's fence to keep the cut square. Of course my cut at an angle was more complicated. Don't forget to tape the cutting zone with masking tape to prevent chipping. Use a fine tooth cutting blade. Below is a similar jig setup on a board for drilling out crossbolts in the second stock I picked up for my 404 build.

Here's the jig for drilling the block to make barrel channel for fore end tip. After the hole was drilled, I ripped the block in half.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

I did not have time to make a grip cap for the first stock. I only finished building my 404J in time for safari at end of August '23. When I returned, goose season opened here. Time to send the 404 off to be blued. When the geese left around Oct 20, I packed up the dogs and returned to Montana to hunt birds, deer, and elk. Back here before Christmas and winter set in. The deal for new stock came up in February. It already had a blued steel grip cap.

You could try what I did to make a zebrawood plug to fill my 404's hollow bolt knob.

Cut a disk of desired wood and thickness. Drill a hole approx in center. Measure width of grip cap zone with caliper. Roughly trim the disk to that size. Run a long narrow bolt the width of screw you'll use to attach grip cap. Then screw on a nut and washer and tighten to what will become backside of grip cap. Flip your Shopsmith to lathe position. Tighten the end of the machine screw in drill chuck. Turn rpms down fairly slow. Start spinning and use a sanding block to trim the disk to widest diameter of oval grip cap. Position it on the grip cap zone and mark the center hole. Drill pilot hole in the pistol grip, remove machine screw/nut, and screw the oversize disk onto pistol grip. Using a fine point mechanical pencil, mark the back of the disk where it needs to be trimmed further. Put a fine sanding disk in the Shopsmith drill chuck, slide the table up to it, and carefully trim the remaining excess from grip cap disk. Then, if desired, countersink the screw hole for flat screw. Or use a panhead screw, brass or blued.

 

[WI-2021]

Thanks again! For the fore end tip, I'll do exactly what you recommended. If I decide to tackle the grip cap, I'll probably do something slightly different, but you gave me an idea. basically, I'll lay the Shopsmith down, make a jig very similar to what you described for the fore end tip, but turned on it's side. I'll put a disc sander attachment, which I conveniently have, on the Shopsmith, set up the stock so that the disc is aligned with my desired angle on the grip cap and clamp it down tight, then move the disc sander into the stock until it's sanded to where I want it. I suppose I could do it with the shopsmith vertical too and use the same jig with an angled block supporting it. It seems much more precise to hold the stock in position and move the sander into it with the quill than to try to move the stock to the sander. The grip cap will be glued on. I expect this will be the most difficult part of the project. Due to the checkering pattern, any slight misalignment of the grip cap will be immediately obvious.

I'm contemplating using 1/8" thick purpleheart as a spacer on the fore end tip, grip cap, and recoil pad, then ebony for the tip and cap. Whether I follow through with this plan depends on what the stock looks like after stripping is complete and I get a few coats of oil on it. Depending on the color of the walnut, I may choose a different wood or omit the spacer entirely. If the walnut ends up fairly light colored, I'll probably use the purpleheart. If it's darker, who knows. Stripping continues, slowly. It is speeding up a bit, but more coats are definitely needed.

 

[WI-2021]

The original inspiration for this thread is now complete, so time to update. I guess I should say phase one is complete in that I have a functioning rifle. Phase two will be adding express sights, a barrel band swivel, and cerakoting it. That will wait a bit until I have any bugs worked out. A crappy pic is shown below.

Due to some minor challenges, some foreseen, some not, my $1900 pile of parts turned into a $2450 rifle. Still very affordable, all things considered.

1. The barrel channel had to be opened up in the stock. I knew this coming in since B&C doesn't offer the heavy barrel version of the stock left-handed. The ejection port cutout also needed to be enlarged.

2. The McGowan prefit barrel wasn't. The shank required a bit of work necessitating a reamer rental. This is the second time I've had this happen with a prefit, the first was a different manufacturer. A good reminder to always check headspace.

3. The latch in the Redhawk Rifles floorplate required a bit of fitting. It was very difficult to close originally. A bit of filing later and it works like a champ.

4. The Wyatt's magazine follower was missing a chamfer at the rear so it would hold the bolt open on empty. Once again, a bit of filing fixed the problem.

All-in-all, fairly minor issues assuming you have a gunsmith with a lathe handy. Mine is just down the road. The barrel and stock work added a few $100 to the price. Having had four semi-custom rifles put together using prefit barrels now, there has only been one that didn't have some sort of unexpected SNAFU. All have been easy fixes, again assuming you have a gunsmith handy or happen to be a machinist. Don't expect to just be able to screw the parts together and achieve perfection, some tweaking is probably going to be necessary.

The bare rifle weighs 8 lbs, 6 oz. This is a little heavier than I was originally anticipating since I decided to go with a #6 contour instead of a #5. It's also actually a few ounces over what I was expecting taking that into account. It's only slightly muzzle-heavy since the barrel is only 20" long. The balance point is right around the front action screw. Adding a bit of tungsten rod in the buttstock could be done, but that will wait until I have it in its final configuration. It may be unnecessary.

For now, I've mounted a Vortex Viper 2.5-10 that I picked up for a bit over $200 and screwed on a Rex Silentium MG7 that I got for $350 not including the stamp, in keeping with the budget theme. This brought the weight to 10 lb 10 oz. Longer term, it will probably get a GPO 1.5-9x44 and an 8" Ecco Accipiter Ti. I've been very happy with that GPO scope on my .308 and it has enough tube length to fit on the .375 using two-piece bases. The MG7 really isn't up to the task on a .375. I bought it for a .44 magnum carbine and it's too small to be effective on a .375, hence my desire for another suppressor.

I just picked the rifle up yesterday and plan to shoot it later today, so my thoughts may change, but so far I'm happy with the results.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

Balance point was where you want it ... without suppressor. But I presume suppressor will be removed when hunting? Gunsmith did all the fixes? Is his bill included in the final cost or just the parts? Because it's left hand and 375, I don't think you'd ever have trouble getting your expenditure back if you sold it. What bases did you choose? Not sure I would go with safari iron sights. Personally I don't think they are very functional. Also, a hooded ramped front sight parked  behind the suppressor threads/cap will not look very classic, especially if the sight is barrel band type. Check out Williams Sight Company online catalog. I bought used 1990s Winchester Safari Express sights off ebay for both my 404 and 30-06. Williams made the front sight/ramp and probably the rear one too but its no longer in their catalog. Single leaf folds down and adjustable windage and elevation. Great price and both sets were like new. Barrel band sling swivel is another decoration in my opinion. I hunt in some very heavy cover and never felt handicapped with conventional sling setup mounted in fore end (and both my rifles have 24" barrels). I don't see that you will be gaining anything adding those expensive decorations and certainly not keeping with your low cost mantra. I suggest Warne QD rings. Economical and robust. I have Titan detachable sling swivels and very pleased so far. Uncle Mike's are cheaper but fall apart. The pressed in locking pin comes loose in its moorings. Also, Uncle Mike's will rub against the stock unless you use their studs with added spacer. I bought a very nice leather sling off ebay from some Polish vendor. Great quality and great price. The brass rivets on strap keeper loops were underneath and I rotated the loops so they are on top. I was worried the rivets might mark the stock finish when rifle is in a gun case.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

Ten pounds is an okay weight for 375. Don't need it any heavier than that.

Curious about that follower. That's the military style to block the bolt open when magazine is empty. Why would they be offering that for a hunting rifle? The rule is 45° chamfer but I added a bit more when modifying my 03A3's military follower. I ground the top edge of the angle so it's slightly rounded. That bolt closes like magic on an empty magazine. Doesn't make it work any better in the field but guys at the gun show who close the action are impressed.

 

[WI-2021]

I spent about $1900 on parts and $550 at the gunsmith. The gunsmith did all the assembly and fixes. Some I could have done myself, but others I couldn't, so I just had him do everything. I might have saved $100 doing what I could do. The suppressor really doesn't move the balance point as much as I expected.

The bases are Talley weaver/1913 rails, screwed and pinned; another clearance special. The rings are Warne QD's. I installed the rings with the levers on the bolt side. I've always done them opposite in the past but I think I prefer it this way. I'll still do irons, probably express sights, just personal preference. It will probably be the adjustable NECG sights unless I run across something else that I like better. The stock is drilled for a front stud, but there's a flat head screw in it now in anticipation of the barrel band. I REALLY don't like getting bashed in the hand by a swivel stud, once was enough. Nothing classic about this rifle, but vintage Rigby's had the front sight set back some, maybe they wanted to leave room for suppressor threads. Whether I'd use the suppressor while hunting is situation dependent. The rifle isn't overly cumbersome with it, but obviously it's less cumbersome without it. The can only adds 5.5" so the rifle is still shorter than an unsuppressed rifle with a 26" barrel. If I ever hunt DG, the suppressor would probably come off.

As far as the follower, I've had some interesting experiences with ordering parts from Wyatt's. I'm pretty sure their QC isn't where it should be. I've ordered multiple extended box kits for my .308 and gotten different followers in each of them. On the .223 kit I tried the follower was about 3/8" shorter than the magazine box and let everything go nose down. I know how to get a BDL to feed (mostly) but I eventually I gave up on that one and switched to a Hawkins flush DBM. The kits for my .300 WM and 6.5 PRC were correct out of the box and fed flawlessly with minor spring tweaks. I'd have thought his followers were CNC'd, but it appears that on this one he just missed a chamfer at the rear. On all the other ones there was a chamfer and the bolt could be closed on an empty magazine so I highly doubt this was design intent. You never know what you're going to get. Unfortunately, there aren't a lot of other options since some Remington factory parts are hard to come by. The parts are cheap enough that it's easier to just fix or replace them instead of going the warranty route. When they're right they work great, they just aren't always right.

I shot the rifle a bit this morning. Everything functions well. Headspace is definitely on the low end of the tolerance range. My main focus was getting one final practice session in with the .22 before we fly out on Friday, so I only shot six rounds at 50 yards off of sticks. It's 90 degrees and about that humid here right now; pretty sure my teeth were sweating when I was at the range. It seems like it will shoot, but too early to tell for sure. Weight and balance are good but it will definitely get your attention, both in terms of recoil and muzzle blast without the can. With the fat barrel POI isn't affected too much by the suppressor. After we get back I'll get a good zero and see what it can do. I may install the spare 1.5" recoil pad I have to get a bit more LOP.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

Hmm. I've never had my hand hit by fore end sling stud. But it does tear up the padding on my bench rest setup. So I usually spin out the forward stud at the range.

I have thought about flush mount quick release sling setup for the fore end on my rifle and the butt end on my upland shotgun. The shotgun butt sling stud gets caught in my upland vest when mounting the gun quickly. Happens so often that I finally removed the stud. But I prefer to keep the sling in my game bag for long walk out at the end of the day. Anyone tried those push-button quick release flush mount sling swivel gizmos? Apparently they're more popular with the tactical crowd.