Buckshot through fixed full choke

[Hoss Delgado]

So I cannot shoot original Brenneke slugs through my full choke 12ga/7x64R combo or my full choke 12ga/9.3x74R combo or my Brno sidelock which use to be 3/4 and full now 24 inch?

Shite I am going to have to stop hunting bush pigs over bait, stop hunting them in the corn fields and macadamia nut plantations at night, stop hunting them over hounds.......

I cant do that gonna keep shooting slugs through them as I have for many years ....never ever had an issue.

Biggest useful shot(call it buckshot if you want) for PG(smaller duikers) is AAA then straight to slugs(Brenneke originals). SG, SSG & LG lack penetration.

Thank you so much , IvW. I guess l shouldn't have a problem. I will try with LG ( what we Americans call 000 ) this weekend and report the results since l only have 000 on hand .

 

[Red Leg]

So I cannot shoot original Brenneke slugs through my full choke 12ga/7x64R combo or my full choke 12ga/9.3x74R combo or my Brno sidelock which use to be 3/4 and full now 24 inch?

Shite I am going to have to stop hunting bush pigs over bait, stop hunting them in the corn fields and macadamia nut plantations at night, stop hunting them over hounds.......

I cant do that gonna keep shooting slugs through them as I have for many years ....never ever had an issue.

Biggest useful shot(call it buckshot if you want) for PG(smaller duikers) is AAA then straight to slugs(Brenneke originals). SG, SSG & LG lack penetration.

No one said anything about slugs. All are designed to go through the tightest full choke - some don’t do it very accurately - but all have the ability to constrict. Some use “rifled” grooves, others a sabot, still others a base wad (Breneke). The only design feature that goes into buckshot is the hardness of the shot and buffering. Harder shot and buffering increase the chance of damaging an OU or SxS. Softer shot, which most everyone loads - see above - deforms readily and doesn’t penetrate very well at all.

 

[Hoss Delgado]

No one said anything about slugs. All are designed to go through the tightest full choke - some don’t do it very accurately - but all have the ability to constrict. Some use “rifled” grooves, others a sabot, still others a base wad (Breneke). The only design feature that goes into buckshot is the hardness of the shot and buffering. Harder shot and buffering increase the chance of damaging an OU or SxS. Softer shot, which most everyone loads - see above - deforms readily and doesn’t penetrate very well at all.

Oh , wait. You're right. IvW was talking about slugs and not buckshot ( especially 000 ) . I guess l will stick to No.1 bird shot for Duiker and 2 3/4 inch Brenekke slugs for my BRNO over under.

 

[salesman]

In my experience buckshot No 1’s, No 4’s and OO pattern pretty good with a full choke...and even better with a 2X full Comp - N - Choke. In SC we still hunt (and hopefully continue to) deer with dogs. Even though legal to use a rifle most clubs only allow shotguns on dog drives. I started out with a Winchester Model 12 with a full choke & OO and have taken countless deer with that combo. A bit over 20 years ago I switched to the Benelli Super Black Eagle with the 2X choke listed above and have used the shot sizes listed above in 2 3/4 to 3 1/2 to take countless more deer. (Please note: until a couple years ago SC basically had no limit on deer in my area and we still have one of the longest, if not longest deer season in the country) It is also deadly medicine on wild hogs and coyotes that frequently get in the way while deer hunting.
So I have to politely disagree with some about the effectiveness of buckshot in general, and the idea of a full choke not working well with buckshot. In my experience if a deer is within 60 yds and preferably 50, buckshot will get him if you do yours.

 

[Hogpatrol]

In my experience buckshot No 1’s, No 4’s and OO pattern pretty good with a full choke...and even better with a 2X full Comp - N - Choke. In SC we still hunt (and hopefully continue to) deer with dogs. Even though legal to use a rifle most clubs only allow shotguns on dog drives. I started out with a Winchester Model 12 with a full choke & OO and have taken countless deer with that combo. A bit over 20 years ago I switched to the Benelli Super Black Eagle with the 2X choke listed above and have used the shot sizes listed above in 2 3/4 to 3 1/2 to take countless more deer. (Please note: until a couple years ago SC basically had no limit on deer in my area and we still have one of the longest, if not longest deer season in the country) It is also deadly medicine on wild hogs and coyotes that frequently get in the way while deer hunting.
So I have to politely disagree with some about the effectiveness of buckshot in general, and the idea of a full choke not working well with buckshot. In my experience if a deer is within 60 yds and preferably 50, buckshot will get him if you do yours.

The issue isn't whether double ought will kill a deer or other medium size animal. The problem is the dipshits that shoot at a large moving brown object with four legs like it was a animal with wings.

 

[salesman]

The issue isn't whether double ought will kill a deer or other medium size animal. The problem is the dipshits that shoot at a large moving brown object with four legs like it was a animal with wings.

I am a bit confused by your post...thought the OP was asking about shooting buckshot with a fully choked shotgun. However, now it would seem that I and other Southerners (offense was plural) are being called out for deer hunting with buckshot...my apologies Sir if I am interpreting your post incorrectly. Please clarify if you don’t mind. Thanks

 

[Hoss Delgado]

I am a bit confused by your post...thought the OP was asking about shooting buckshot with a fully choked shotgun. However, now it would seem that I and other Southerners (offense was plural) are being called out for deer hunting with buckshot...my apologies Sir if I am interpreting your post incorrectly. Please clarify if you don’t mind. Thanks

I agree. I use buckshot a lot for white tails

 

[IvW]

I know that l can't shoot slugs through a full choke.

No one said anything about slugs.

 

[IvW]

Oh , wait. You're right. IvW was talking about slugs and not buckshot ( especially 000 ) . I guess l will stick to No.1 bird shot for Duiker and 2 3/4 inch Brenekke slugs for my BRNO over under.

That will work. Our AAA work very well on duiker sized game. I would not use SG(small game), SSG(special small game) or LG(large game) on game, lack of penetration.

Original Brenneke slugs will kill the largest warthog or bushpig you can find. Fun hunting them with such an outfit, we shoot a lot of them with this combo.

I have also used Original Brenneke slugs with success on many African Game animals, including wounded leopard. Yes on some you limited your opportunities severely but on others they are ideal.

I would not hunt bushpig in corn over hounds or the same bushpig in thick cover with a bolt gun, double shotgun with slugs or a combination rifle with a slug in the shottie barrel has worked very well for me.

 

[Hogpatrol]

I am a bit confused by your post...thought the OP was asking about shooting buckshot with a fully choked shotgun. However, now it would seem that I and other Southerners (offense was plural) are being called out for deer hunting with buckshot...my apologies Sir if I am interpreting your post incorrectly. Please clarify if you don’t mind. Thanks

No confusion and no knock on hunters that use them. I stated buckshot will kill a deer. It just needs to be properly placed at the distance for which it was designed and not throwing the gun up and blasting away at a running animals.
In the state of PA, running deer are shot, wounded and never recovered too many times by trigger happy, once a year "hunters". Now, except for certain WMUs and after literally decades of legal use, it was banned for deer hunting. Now it's slugs, rifles, handguns, muzzleloaders and archery equipment.
From my experience in over sixty years of hunting, my perspective on deer hunters using buckshot may be a little different than yours. Ask any of them if they've patterned their shotguns and you'll get a blank stare. YMMV.

 

[Red Leg]

oops! Ok, I wasn’t.

And yes, from an accurate gun, slugs can be very effective.

By the way, along with my Paradox, I have a Browning slug gun that they built for a short time for shotgun only deer hunting areas. It cosmetically looks like a big A-Bolt with fully rifled 12 bore barrel and provision for a scope. With a sabot it likes and a low power scope in place, it shoots a 3-round cloverleaf at 100 meters and will easily take a deer to 150 yards. Despite their accuracy, they didn’t sell well. Probably because most slug hunters were once a season deer hunters just as happy to stick slugs in their Remwinmoss shuck and clunker.

 

[Hoss Delgado]

oops! Ok, I wasn’t.

And yes, from an accurate gun, slugs can be very effective.

By the way, along with my Paradox, I have a Browning slug gun that they built for a short time for shotgun only deer hunting areas. It cosmetically looks like a big A-Bolt with fully rifled 12 bore barrel and provision for a scope. With a sabot it likes and a low power scope in place, it shoots a 3-round cloverleaf at 100 meters and will easily take a deer to 150 yards. Despite their accuracy, they didn’t sell well. Probably because most slug hunters were once a season deer hunters just as happy to stick slugs in their Remwinmoss shuck and clunker.

I've heard of these Browning limited edition bolt action 12s . But never seen one face to face. Did they take the 3 inch shell or the 3.5 ?

 

[Red Leg]

Three-inch. They were prior to the creation of the 3.5 inch abominations. And I have never actually seen a 3.5 - inch slug load - though if someone thought someone would buy it .... And remember, these have a fully rifled barrel designed for sabot slugs - they won't handle shot of any size.

I'll admit, I haven't used the 3.5 inch buck (as you can tell, I don't have much use for the stuff in any length) or the turkey loads (I have killed a whole bunch of turkeys over the years and always find 1 1/4 ounces of no. 6 to the head and neck decisive), and they really don't work very well on waterfowl. They typically pattern terribly (elongated patterns) and are singularly unpleasant to shoot. I hunt wildfowl a lot, and I don't know anyone who is an experienced shooter that has anything to do with them. Though in observing a few being fired, they must be terrific at bagging a collection of flinches and headaches.

I must admit though, no one with whom I hunt takes a gun afield designed to use the things.

Just back from Argentina, and I was easily dropping piles of ducks a day with 1 1/8 ounce number 5's. And I personally don't use 1 1/4 ounce loads for pheasants (which I shoot a lot). 1 1/8 ounces of no. 6 folds them perfectly.

I am starting to rant.

 

[Hogpatrol]

Three-inch. They were prior to the creation of the 3.5 inch abominations. And I have never actually seen a 3.5 - inch slug load - though if someone thought someone would buy it .... And remember, these have a fully rifled barrel designed for sabot slugs - they won't handle shot of any size.

I'll admit, I haven't used the 3.5 inch buck (as you can tell, I don't have much use for the stuff in any length) or the turkey loads (I have killed a whole bunch of turkeys over the years and always find 1 1/4 ounces of no. 6 to the head and neck decisive), and they really don't work very well on waterfowl. They typically pattern terribly (elongated patterns) and are singularly unpleasant to shoot. I hunt wildfowl a lot, and I don't know anyone who is an experienced shooter that has anything to do with them. Though in observing a few being fired, they must be terrific at bagging a collection of flinches and headaches.

I must admit though, no one with whom I hunt takes a gun afield designed to use the things.

Just back from Argentina, and I was easily dropping piles of ducks a day with 1 1/8 ounce number 5's. And I personally don't use 1 1/4 ounce loads for pheasants (which I shoot a lot). 1 1/8 ounces of no. 6 folds them perfectly.

I am starting to rant.

I shot a whitetail at 50 yards with a 3 1/2" Lightfield slug out of a 12 gauge and totally destroyed the front quarters. Used that gun one year. Most everyone in my circle that uses slug guns, has converted to 20 gauge rifled barrel versions.

 

[salesman]

No confusion and no knock on hunters that use them. I stated buckshot will kill a deer. It just needs to be properly placed at the distance for which it was designed and not throwing the gun up and blasting away at a running animals.
In the state of PA, running deer are shot, wounded and never recovered too many times by trigger happy, once a year "hunters". Now, except for certain WMUs and after literally decades of legal use, it was banned for deer hunting. Now it's slugs, rifles, handguns, muzzleloaders and archery equipment.
From my experience in over sixty years of hunting, my perspective on deer hunters using buckshot may be a little different than yours. Ask any of them if they've patterned their shotguns and you'll get a blank stare. YMMV.

Yes Sir, prospective is quite different.
Buckshot is used while dog driving deer for three main reasons: safety, extremely heavy cover in many cases and the fact that target will be moving as often as not (and at times at a high rate of speed). Yes, a hunter needs to understand the limitations of the equipment he/she is using, and their own limitations. In regards to wounded and lost deer, not an issue. If wounded the dogs will find it and give the hunter the opportunity to recover virtually 100% of the time. In fact it is my contention after 40 years of deer hunting using dogs that very few deer are lost compared with other hunting methods. It is also my contention, at least in my area, most hunters have patterned their shotgun with their buckshot load of choice. Most clubs/hunting groups have penalties for missed shots or lost game that run the gamut from financial to cut shirts to a combination of both, most hunters don’t want either to happen to them.

Sir in regards to you using the language you used to describe some hunters using buckshot, you came off as painting with a broad brush. I am very sensitive to it. We have been carpetbagged in the South by northerners or urbanites moving in or leasing land that would like to see deer hunting with dogs stopped. They don’t understand it and don’t know anything about it, yet they persist in trying to get it stopped. Just two years ago they managed to get SC on a tag system. I don’t know you or your origin, but I see your profile says you are from Delaware; Southern Hospitality is alive and well, but we still want to do things our way. If by chance you are one of those Yankees that is against deer hunting with dogs you have an invitation to come and see how a proper dog drive is conducted. Bring you shotgun and a couple boxes of buck (patterned of course).

 

[Hoss Delgado]

Three-inch. They were prior to the creation of the 3.5 inch abominations. And I have never actually seen a 3.5 - inch slug load - though if someone thought someone would buy it .... And remember, these have a fully rifled barrel designed for sabot slugs - they won't handle shot of any size.

I'll admit, I haven't used the 3.5 inch buck (as you can tell, I don't have much use for the stuff in any length) or the turkey loads (I have killed a whole bunch of turkeys over the years and always find 1 1/4 ounces of no. 6 to the head and neck decisive), and they really don't work very well on waterfowl. They typically pattern terribly (elongated patterns) and are singularly unpleasant to shoot. I hunt wildfowl a lot, and I don't know anyone who is an experienced shooter that has anything to do with them. Though in observing a few being fired, they must be terrific at bagging a collection of flinches and headaches.

I must admit though, no one with whom I hunt takes a gun afield designed to use the things.

Just back from Argentina, and I was easily dropping piles of ducks a day with 1 1/8 ounce number 5's. And I personally don't use 1 1/4 ounce loads for pheasants (which I shoot a lot). 1 1/8 ounces of no. 6 folds them perfectly.

I am starting to rant.

I much prefer the 3.5 inch 10 gauge shell shell loaded with BB for goose rather than the 3.5 inch 12 gauge. Interestingly enough , you mentioned the recoil. I was in France when l once fired a Verney Carron Super Magnum side by side firing 12 gauge 3.5 inch shells loaded with BB . If you have ever fired that gun , you will know that it has a peculiar feature : pulling the back trigger will discharge both barrels at once. Now , whether he was ignorant or plain malicious , l don't know. But the gun owner didn't mention that to me. We were Goose shooting ( me with an O/U and him with the Verney Carron ) . I decided to take a shot with his curious looking piece. I got a nice goose at 35 yards within my sights and pulled the back trigger . Let's just say that l got the goose AND a really nauseating head ache.

 

[Hogpatrol]

Yes Sir, prospective is quite different.
Buckshot is used while dog driving deer for three main reasons: safety, extremely heavy cover in many cases and the fact that target will be moving as often as not (and at times at a high rate of speed). Yes, a hunter needs to understand the limitations of the equipment he/she is using, and their own limitations. In regards to wounded and lost deer, not an issue. If wounded the dogs will find it and give the hunter the opportunity to recover virtually 100% of the time. In fact it is my contention after 40 years of deer hunting using dogs that very few deer are lost compared with other hunting methods. It is also my contention, at least in my area, most hunters have patterned their shotgun with their buckshot load of choice. Most clubs/hunting groups have penalties for missed shots or lost game that run the gamut from financial to cut shirts to a combination of both, most hunters don’t want either to happen to them.

Sir in regards to you using the language you used to describe some hunters using buckshot, you came off as painting with a broad brush. I am very sensitive to it. We have been carpetbagged in the South by northerners or urbanites moving in or leasing land that would like to see deer hunting with dogs stopped. They don’t understand it and don’t know anything about it, yet they persist in trying to get it stopped. Just two years ago they managed to get SC on a tag system. I don’t know you or your origin, but I see your profile says you are from Delaware; Southern Hospitality is alive and well, but we still want to do things our way. If by chance you are one of those Yankees that is against deer hunting with dogs you have an invitation to come and see how a proper dog drive is conducted. Bring you shotgun and a couple boxes of buck (patterned of course).

That's a different method of deer hunting and although unfamiliar with it, I understand the reasons. I'm just going on what I've seen in the states where big game dog hunting is illegal and the mindset of the buckshot shooters is if I throw enough lead I might kill something. Then the story goes "I know I hit him" followed by the usual dead end search. Unlike the once a year guy, your group is organized and has the ability to retrieve wounded animals. As far as dogs, I could definitely go for one of those hunts. Aside that, I feel your pain on the Northerner influx. Here in Delaware, a low tax state, we are being inundated with adjoining high tax state retirees bringing their high tax politics with them.

 

[Hoss Delgado]

Yes Sir, prospective is quite different.
Buckshot is used while dog driving deer for three main reasons: safety, extremely heavy cover in many cases and the fact that target will be moving as often as not (and at times at a high rate of speed). Yes, a hunter needs to understand the limitations of the equipment he/she is using, and their own limitations. In regards to wounded and lost deer, not an issue. If wounded the dogs will find it and give the hunter the opportunity to recover virtually 100% of the time. In fact it is my contention after 40 years of deer hunting using dogs that very few deer are lost compared with other hunting methods. It is also my contention, at least in my area, most hunters have patterned their shotgun with their buckshot load of choice. Most clubs/hunting groups have penalties for missed shots or lost game that run the gamut from financial to cut shirts to a combination of both, most hunters don’t want either to happen to them.

Sir in regards to you using the language you used to describe some hunters using buckshot, you came off as painting with a broad brush. I am very sensitive to it. We have been carpetbagged in the South by northerners or urbanites moving in or leasing land that would like to see deer hunting with dogs stopped. They don’t understand it and don’t know anything about it, yet they persist in trying to get it stopped. Just two years ago they managed to get SC on a tag system. I don’t know you or your origin, but I see your profile says you are from Delaware; Southern Hospitality is alive and well, but we still want to do things our way. If by chance you are one of those Yankees that is against deer hunting with dogs you have an invitation to come and see how a proper dog drive is conducted. Bring you shotgun and a couple boxes of buck (patterned of course).

I've hunted roe deer with dogs and An Over Under Beretta 12 gauge loaded with #1 birdshot in Sweden more than once. I love the experience.

 

[Red Leg]

I much prefer the 3.5 inch 10 gauge shell shell loaded with BB for goose rather than the 3.5 inch 12 gauge. Interestingly enough , you mentioned the recoil. I was in France when l once fired a Verney Carron Super Magnum side by side firing 12 gauge 3.5 inch shells loaded with BB . If you have ever fired that gun , you will know that it has a peculiar feature : pulling the back trigger will discharge both barrels at once. Now , whether he was ignorant or plain malicious , l don't know. But the gun owner didn't mention that to me. We were Goose shooting ( me with an O/U and him with the Verney Carron ) . I decided to take a shot with his curious looking piece. I got a nice goose at 35 yards within my sights and pulled the back trigger . Let's just say that l got the goose AND a really nauseating head ache.

Would agree. No issue at all with 3.5 inch 10. The larger bore makes a far better pattern, and the heavier gun is much more manageable.

 

[ChrisG]

If you want slugs this is what I worked up... although not technically a slug, it is more of just a giant wadcutter bullet. 775 grains from this fully rifled NEF Ultra-slug at 1,050 fps. Energy puts it around 1,900 ft.-lbs. But momentum-wise, it trumps the .375 h&h with a 300 grain bullet at 2,550 fps. It kicks like it too.

That's a 9mm for comparison.