Browning X-bolt

[Hoss Delgado]

One of your favorite PHs, Ivan Carter, probably “short stroked” his push feed M70 under stress when attempting to fire another round at the elephant. If one doesn’t pull the bolt back COMPLETELY on a push feed, the magazine CAN partially load another round into the chamber, causing a “stoppage” , and in Mr. Carter’s case, DEATH!

EXACTLY. If it can happen to a pro like Him , l fear it could happen to normal guys like you and me .

 

[Hoss Delgado]

Hoss,
Thanks for your perspective on this and the article was great. Yes, I believe many DG hunters in the past used push feeds because that’s maybe what was out there due to the times and affordability? Would I use a push feed rifle on DG? H*** NO! The reason for ME is simple. I don’t trust anyone who I don’t know as to their marksmanship and hunting ability under a stressful situation to save my a**! I don’t know/wouldn’t know the PH or his credentials for the most part. Sorry, but this is how I feel. Oh yeah, and I’m using (if I ever get the chance) my CZ 550 .458WM on buffalo! I don’ care what the naysayers say about the .458WM, at least for buffalo. Better than a crossbow!

About Pushfeed rifles being used on DG in the past , l made the following speculation , based on a little reading .
We know that the Mauser system was used on Virtually all British caliber Magazine rifles used in Africa up to the 1950s , when Kynoch discontinued all their centre fire cartridges. British White Hunters kept using double rifles for the big stuff , only now they were all universally in .470 NE as .470 NE ammunition was available ( since brands other than Kynoch were making it ) . American client hunters started coming to Africa with .458 Winchester Magnum Model 70 rifles which were still CRF. It was only in 1964 , after Winchester stopped making the CRF Winchester Model 70 and FN stopped using the CRF system in their " Mauser " rifles ( due to economics rather than field experience ) , that push feed rifles started being used . Weatherbys ( like the one in my article ) , Remington model 700s , and BSA .458s all got popular among American Client hunters. The White Hunters held on their .470 NE Doubles ( it was the largest caliber Double for which bullets were still available ) . The push feed popularity lasted maybe a decade before the short stroking issue starting getting noticed. By the Eighties , CRF got popular again , due to CZ BRNO turning out their excellent ZKK 602 rifles in .375 HH Magnum and .458 Winchester Magnum (many of which got rebarrelled to Lott ) .
While , there are critics of the .458 Win Mag ( Including I , myself , admittedly for certain reasons ) , l have no doubt that a Cape Buffalo would be hammered by 3-4 well placed lung shots and heart shots by 500 grain FMJs or 500 grain Monolithic solids. Or even three or four well placed 510 grain premium soft nose bullets like Swift A frames . And l think you will do great. I myself will use my .375 with Swift A frames next year for my Cape Buffalo

 

[CoElkHunter]

You took the words right out of my mouth , Bee Maa. The truth is , whenever l hear a guy wanting a .375 HH Magnum or larger caliber , l immediately think " Okay , he has SOMETHING dangerous planned on his menu " .
Co Elk Hunter makes some very sensible arguments.
And the guy should definitely get a 7 pound .375 . A little recoil never hurt no body

Yes, my .338WM Browning A Bolt is probably 8.5 lbs with scope and rings. The recoil is VERY manageable to ME. Even my .30-06 Browning BLR hunting buddy says the .338 has only a little more felt recoil to HIM than his ‘06. STOCK DESIGN! But felt recoil is different for everybody. I would LOVE to have a Browning X Bolt in.375! Maybe someday I will?

 

[CoElkHunter]

About Pushfeed rifles being used on DG in the past , l made the following speculation , based on a little reading .
We know that the Mauser system was used on Virtually all British caliber Magazine rifles used in Africa up to the 1950s , when Kynoch discontinued all their centre fire cartridges. British White Hunters kept using double rifles for the big stuff , only now they were all universally in .470 NE as .470 NE ammunition was available ( since brands other than Kynoch were making it ) . American client hunters started coming to Africa with .458 Winchester Magnum Model 70 rifles which were still CRF. It was only in 1964 , after Winchester stopped making the CRF Winchester Model 70 and FN stopped using the CRF system in their " Mauser " rifles ( due to economics rather than field experience ) , that push feed rifles started being used . Weatherbys ( like the one in my article ) , Remington model 700s , and BSA .458s all got popular among American Client hunters. The White Hunters held on their .470 NE Doubles ( it was the largest caliber Double for which bullets were still available ) . The push feed popularity lasted maybe a decade before the short stroking issue starting getting noticed. By the Eighties , CRF got popular again , due to CZ BRNO turning out their excellent ZKK 602 rifles in .375 HH Magnum and .458 Winchester Magnum (many of which got rebarrelled to Lott ) .
While , there are critics of the .458 Win Mag ( Including I , myself , admittedly for certain reasons ) , l have no doubt that a Cape Buffalo would be hammered by 3-4 well placed lung shots and heart shots by 500 grain FMJs or 500 grain Monolithic solids. Or even three or four well placed 510 grain premium soft nose bullets like Swift A frames . And l think you will do great. I myself will use my .375 with Swift A frames next year for my Cape Buffalo

Everybody here on AH who has hunted buffalo, CERTAINLY knows MUCH more than I’ll probably ever know about buffalo calibers and loads. But, for now I have the .458WM. Maybe someday a Lott or .416 Taylor? Anyway, I have some factory Barnes 450 TSX @ 2240fps, until I start reloading for the .458. I thought I would try penetration tests on hardwood, backed by bags of sand at say 50 yards? Open sights.

 

[Hoss Delgado]

Everybody here on AH who has hunted buffalo, CERTAINLY knows MUCH more than I’ll probably ever know about buffalo calibers and loads. But, for now I have the .458WM. Maybe someday a Lott or .416 Taylor? Anyway, I have some factory Barnes 450 TSX @ 2240fps, until I start reloading for the .458. I thought I would try penetration tests on hardwood, backed by bags of sand at say 50 yards? Open sights.

If you can, Go for the .458 Lott. A true Classic. BTW , l have a 4 page article on .458 Win Mag loads for Buffalo. If you like , l will be more than happy to inbox you

 

[Hoss Delgado]

Yes, my .338WM Browning A Bolt is probably 8.5 lbs with scope and rings. The recoil is VERY manageable to ME. Even my .30-06 Browning BLR hunting buddy says the .338 has only a little more felt recoil to HIM than his ‘06. STOCK DESIGN! But felt recoil is different for everybody. I would LOVE to have a Browning X Bolt in.375! Maybe someday I will?

If you can , try getting one of the old Belgian CRF ones .
Yeah , yeah , l know , l am CRF biased even when l try not to be.

 

[CoElkHunter]

If you can, Go for the .458 Lott. A true Classic. BTW , l have a 4 page article on .458 Win Mag loads for Buffalo. If you like , l will be more than happy to inbox you

Great! Send it! Bruce Moulds was kind enough to send me some load information on using Winchester 748 powder for practice loads awhile back, cause I have about 9 pounds of it I had been using for .308 and .22-250 loads. Thanks!

 

[K-man]

I don't want to hijack this thread, but I haven't found any information on Ivan Carter's death. Does anyone have a link or more information about it?

 

[Hoss Delgado]

I don't want to hijack this thread, but I haven't found any information on Ivan Carter's death. Does anyone have a link or more information about it?

I will inbox you a link in an hour

 

[Hoss Delgado]

Great! Send it! Bruce Moulds was kind enough to send me some load information on using Winchester 748 powder for practice loads awhile back, cause I have about 9 pounds of it I had been using for .308 and .22-250 loads. Thanks!

I will inbox it in 1 hour. I promised Mrs. Delgado to clean the dishes

 

[CoElkHunter]

I don't want to hijack this thread, but I haven't found any information on Ivan Carter's death. Does anyone have a link or more information about it?

No , please hijack it. I’ve been way off topic on this for awhile. I can’t help myself. Sorry!

 

[Graham Hunter]

Please send the link k to all. I would like to read it also. Carter was a legend!

I will inbox you a link in an hour

 

[CoElkHunter]

If you can , try getting one of the old Belgian CRF ones .
Yeah , yeah , l know , l am CRF biased even when l try not to be.

Yeah, I’ve seen some older Browning’s for sale, but I don’t know what years they had the CRF actions? And I know the Browning’s had some issues in the late 60s-early 70s with “salt wood” due to using salt water to cure the walnut stocks faster, as they couldn’t keep up with demand for their rifles fast enough.

 

[Hoss Delgado]

Yeah, I’ve seen some older Browning’s for sale, but I don’t know what years they had the CRF actions? And I know the Browning’s had some issues in the late 60s-early 70s with “salt wood” due to using salt water to cure the walnut stocks faster, as they couldn’t keep up with demand for their rifles fast enough.

The ones before 1968 were CRF , l believe.

 

[K-man]

Just to clear up the thread the P.H. referred to here is Ian Gibson, not Ivan Carter. I was fairly sure Ivan is still around. Carry on, Gentlemen!

 

[Hoss Delgado]

Just to clear up the thread the P.H. referred to here is Ian Gibson, not Ivan Carter. I was fairly sure Ivan is still around. Carry on, Gentlemen!

Ha Ha . Yeah. I mistook Ian Gibson's name for Ivan Carter

 

[Jumare Jaeger]

Easy guys, take it easy.
Let's not turn this into a CRF vs Push-Feed DG fist fight.
The OP was asking about shooting a 7# 375, not necessarily for DG.



If it hasn't been said already, Welcome to AH and as you can see we are a passionate bunch.

BTW - If the real question is should you buy a 7# 375...the answer is YES!
It's easier to add weight to a light rifle than lighten up a heavy one.
Good luck and let us know how it goes.

Thx!!! These posts were informative.

#1 I am convinced that Browning x-bolt is an xlent rifle (well priced too)
#2 endorsement of that heavy caliber, light rifle were tepid; hard hitting kick makes it hard to practice; for a few bucks more I can get a Winchester Alaskan (about 9 pounds)
#3 I have a HEAVY pre-64 270 Model 70 with a steel buttplate built when the Marquis de Sade worked for Winchester; I can sell it for more than the cost of an x-bolt 270 (I think)
#4 I'm gonna buy a x-bolt 270 for deer
#5 I'm going to retire in four years; plenty of time to master a 375
"#6 then go hunt PG

 

[BeeMaa]

Thx!!! These posts were informative.

#1 I am convinced that Browning x-bolt is an xlent rifle (well priced too)
#2 endorsement of that heavy caliber, light rifle were tepid; hard hitting kick makes it hard to practice; for a few bucks more I can get a Winchester Alaskan (about 9 pounds)
#3 I have a HEAVY pre-64 270 Model 70 with a steel buttplate built when the Marquis de Sade worked for Winchester; I can sell it for more than the cost of an x-bolt 270 (I think)
#4 I'm gonna buy a x-bolt 270 for deer
#5 I'm going to retire in four years; plenty of time to master a 375
"#6 then go hunt PG

375 is a perfect PG companion.
Start slow, with only 5-10 rounds off sticks.
Try to stay off the bench unless you are using a lead sled.
Good luck with it.

 

[Rule 303]

As said the stock shape/fit and material play a big part in felt recoil. My Rem700 in 375H&H is 2 pound lighter than thy CZ550 in same cal. I still have the Rem but not the CZ. The felt recoil from the CZ was far harder than that of the Rem Mind you the Rem has a shitty plastic stock that absorbs alot of the recoil energy and is just as accurate as the CZ.

If you short stroke a CRF you still end up with a nothing to shoot with. Short stroking a CRF can and has in some case resulted in a double feed (very rare and it takes several things to go wrong at the same time). Nothing man makes is fool proof. Best way to over come short stroking is to practice and always pull the bolt back hard and let the bolt stop stop it.

What ever rifle you get practice with it often and hard.

 

[postoak]

Are you sure of your facts? The X-bolt Safari Grade shows a weight of 7 3/4 pounds in .375 on the Browning website.