Bought a Sako Kodiak!!!!!

[CBH Australia]

Absolutely you made the right decision. Please write how you go w it.

I was going to say that is coming from a Sako fan,

I have four Sakos at the moment. Just beautifully made rifles. I intend to add to such numbers soon. The overall accuracy and quality is simply great. You’ll enjoy immensely.

But you beet me to it.

I done a search after reading a question from @Fissel might be some info here for Fissel

 

[Dr Ray]

From Chuck Hawk, for what its worth:

"To briefly cover the new features of the new Sako 85 action, let's start with controlled-round feeding. We reviewed a Sako 85 Hunter in depth (see the Product Review Page) and found that the Sako 85 version of controlled feed lacks the advantages of a true controlled feed action. This action does not have a full-length extractor on the Mauser 98 pattern. The 85's bolt head mounted extractor is much smaller than the full-length extractors on a Mauser 98 and takes a smaller bite on the case rim. If you close the Sako's bolt about half way (until you hear the next cartridge in the magazine click up, ready to be fed) and then pull the bolt back and try to close it again, it will jam the rifle by attempting to double feed.

A true controlled feed action, in that situation, holds onto the first cartridge until the bolt is completely withdrawn and it is ejected. If the bolt is run forward again while still holding the first cartridge, the extractor keeps it in place and guides it into the chamber, preventing the bolt from attempting to pick-up the second cartridge and preventing a double feed jam.

Nor does the Sako 85 guide a fresh cartridge into the chamber like a controlled feed action. It simply pushes it forward and into the chamber like any push feed action. It is not until about the last 1/4" of forward bolt travel that the Sako's extractor actually gets a firm grip on the case rim. By that time the cartridge is almost all the way into the chamber anyway, so being "controlled" at that late stage is pointless.

On the plus side, the Sako's extractor will easily over-ride the rim of a cartridge fed directly into the chamber, like a normal push feed action. For all practical purposes (except advertising) the Model 85 is a push feed action. Its receiver mounted ejector lets a reloader deposit fired brass neatly to hand by opening the bolt slowly."

Sako’s action is not a true control feed. It’s a sort of push and control.

 

[bruce moulds]

sako are promoted as a rolls royce option, and strangely enough many people just believe what they are told, and so the urban myth goes on.
the ejected cases hitting the scope is just a thing that should not happen, and initial design should have taken care of that.
the above post so ably describing how controlled round feed truly works leaves the sako system with egg on the face.
then you hear of sakos that will not group, and the doc's stock going sticky.
for the price all these details should have been taken care of prior to initial marketing.
what are you actually paying a premium for??
in the real world only people who don't understand thinking you have a better rifle.
when they started bolting recoil lugs to the receiver was the last straw in exposing the truth about their so called superiority.
bruce.

 

[Longwalker]

I have a Sako Kodiak .375, and actually prefer it to my fully customized AHR CZ 550 .375. The AHR CZ is prettier, more traditional, and cost more than twice as much. But the CZ will be sold. I find the Sako action smoother and much easier and quicker to operate from the shoulder for fast repeat shots. The CZ works best if dismounted to ensure no-binding and smooth ejection / feeding. The often repeated "flaw" of the Sako extractor design not as "controlled" as a Mauser claw is a non-issue to me. Sako does control the cartridge if the bolt is pushed most of the way forward. If pulled back at that point, the loaded cartridge or empty case will stay in place, ensuring a double feed will not occur. In my experience, an attempt to double feed a rifle has only happened to me when shooting relatively rough feeding Mauser actioned rifles, with bolts that tend to bind. So the Mauser claw extractor can be seen as a compensation for loose Mauser action tolerances. ( heresy!) Sako has a better trigger, and like I like their detachable box magazine system. It holds four down, and four more are available in very little more time than is needed to load a single cartridge. The Sako magazine latch is more positive than many, perhaps most floor plate latches. And I expect an extra magazine full of solids is a nice quick option in some situations. I spent $50 to have a tighter tolerance extractor fitted in my Sako, and the high angle of ejection "problem" went away. The Sako is more accurate than the CZ, better balanced and handier, and suits my needs better. It is far from being the best rifle on the market, but I think it represents good value for the money.

 

[TOBY458]

I have a Sako Kodiak .375, and actually prefer it to my fully customized AHR CZ 550 .375. The AHR CZ is prettier, more traditional, and cost more than twice as much. But the CZ will be sold. I find the Sako action smoother and much easier and quicker to operate from the shoulder for fast repeat shots. The CZ works best if dismounted to ensure no-binding and smooth ejection / feeding. The often repeated "flaw" of the Sako extractor design not as "controlled" as a Mauser claw is a non-issue to me. Sako does control the cartridge if the bolt is pushed most of the way forward. If pulled back at that point, the loaded cartridge or empty case will stay in place, ensuring a double feed will not occur. In my experience, an attempt to double feed a rifle has only happened to me when shooting relatively rough feeding Mauser actioned rifles, with bolts that tend to bind. So the Mauser claw extractor can be seen as a compensation for loose Mauser action tolerances. ( heresy!) Sako has a better trigger, and like I like their detachable box magazine system. It holds four down, and four more are available in very little more time than is needed to load a single cartridge. The Sako magazine latch is more positive than many, perhaps most floor plate latches. And I expect an extra magazine full of solids is a nice quick option in some situations. I spent $50 to have a tighter tolerance extractor fitted in my Sako, and the high angle of ejection "problem" went away. The Sako is more accurate than the CZ, better balanced and handier, and suits my needs better. It is far from being the best rifle on the market, but I think it represents good value for the money.

Who did you get to make your extractor?

 

[Dr Ray]

sako are promoted as a rolls royce option, and strangely enough many people just believe what they are told, and so the urban myth goes on.
the ejected cases hitting the scope is just a thing that should not happen, and initial design should have taken care of that.
the above post so ably describing how controlled round feed truly works leaves the sako system with egg on the face.
then you hear of sakos that will not group, and the doc's stock going sticky.
for the price all these details should have been taken care of prior to initial marketing.
what are you actually paying a premium for??
in the real world only people who don't understand thinking you have a better rifle.
when they started bolting recoil lugs to the receiver was the last straw in exposing the truth about their so called superiority.
bruce.

I asked my gunsmith if he could alter that. No!!
Bugger!!
My Sakos are very very nice to use but as I’ve stated multiple times, I use Winchester in the big big calibers.

 

[Longwalker]

My extractor was made by a hobbyist / machinist who I met on the Canadian Gun Nutz site. He is not in business making them, but if one skilled hobbyist can do it without too much trouble, a proper gunsmith should have the skills too.

 

[BeeMaa]

My extractor was made by a hobbyist / machinist who I met on the Canadian Gun Nutz site. He is not in business making them, but if one skilled hobbyist can do it without too much trouble, a proper gunsmith should have the skills too.

Could you post a picture of the upgraded extractor please?

 

[CBH Australia]

sako are promoted as a rolls royce option, and strangely enough many people just believe what they are told, and so the urban myth goes on.
the ejected cases hitting the scope is just a thing that should not happen, and initial design should have taken care of that.
the above post so ably describing how controlled round feed truly works leaves the sako system with egg on the face.
then you hear of sakos that will not group, and the doc's stock going sticky.
for the price all these details should have been taken care of prior to initial marketing.
what are you actually paying a premium for??
in the real world only people who don't understand thinking you have a better rifle.
when they started bolting recoil lugs to the receiver was the last straw in exposing the truth about their so called superiority.
bruce.

They are nice but my Tikka’s work at half the price I could have twice as many, except I would still like nice glass on all. I can’t win.

 

[bruce moulds]

chris,
far better rifles for far less money.
just bed them, do the triggers,
put leupolds on them and go shooting.
offering a product a product for sale implies it is fit for purpose.
tikke comes under that category far more than sako.
bruce.

 

[colorado]

I took a Sako in 375 H&H (all stainless with synthetic stock) to Kodiak twice chasing brownies. It shot excellent with 300 Nosler Partitions. Unfortunately it didn’t find me a big enough brownie.
I think you’ll like it.

I was once told, the only way to get a 10 foot bear is to pass up 9 footers. Hard to do, and I admire you for it. The next time I go, that's what I'm going to do as well.

 

[TOBY458]

chris,
far better rifles for far less money.
just bed them, do the triggers,
put leupolds on them and go shooting.
offering a product a product for sale implies it is fit for purpose.
tikke comes under that category far more than sako.
bruce.

I have Sako 75 and 85, plus Tikka T3 as well. The Tikkas are indeed nice rifles for the money, but their biggest failing is their magazine and magazine retention system. I've hunted with my T3 quite a bit this year and somehow have managed to disengage the magazine twice this year while carrying the rifle. It only takes a small bit of pressure on the latch for this to happen. Plus the single stack magazine protrudes down below the bottom of the stock, which makes it uncomfortable to carry over your arm. On top of all that, it only holds 3 rounds and can't be top loaded with the magazine in the rifle. In this respect, Sako is the clear winner.
As for accuracy, they are equal.
As for smoothness of feeding, they are equal.
As for safety, Sako is the winner. The Sako can be unloaded with the safety still engaged. The Tikka cannot.
As for the triggers, they are equal.
Since the Tikka is not offered in a 375, the Sako is the only choice between the two, in that caliber. And due to the magazine arrangement the Tikka would not be a good choice for dangerous game in my opinion, so the Sako wins for this purpose.
However, as some of you know, I've had some extraction problems with my Kodiak 375, due to the extracted rounds hitting the scope turret on their way out. My 9.3x62 and 30/06 Sakos do not share the same affliction. So after my debacle in Africa with a wounded Cape Buffalo, I ended up turning my scope on the Kodiak 90°counterclockwise so the turret is no longer on the ejection port side. This "fixed" my problem, but only works on a standard duplex scope with no elevation marks on the crosshairs. This also allows for easier access for top loading the magazine, which is not a bad idea on any DG rifle.
At the end of the day, if you're buying a Sako for DG hunting, make sure you thoroughly test it for function. Or you may end up like I did. Standing in front of a wounded Cape buffalo with a jammed rifle, and hearing your PH's rifle firing because yours will not.

 

[Longwalker]

Could you post a picture of the upgraded extractor please?

Not much to see, mostly because my photography skills aren't good when taking close ups. The difference is a few thousands of an inch closer tolerance between claw and bolt face.

 

[MarkTX]

I bought the SAKO BG in 6.5 Creedmoor this summer and topped it with Leupold VX-5 with CDS. What a tack driver with Hornady Precision Hunter 143gr. Should become my new best friend.

Guys ... I appreciate all the great info/opinion on this board. It's truly helpful. I guess my concern is that there's an awful lot of "text book" analysis presented to determine the pros/cons of the various extractor types. I'm looking at purchasing a custom model 85 Sako and this subject is of great interest to me. But I ran across the following article and it reminded me, as an engineer, that theory and practice don't always produce the same result.

Claw Extractors 101

Among rifle nuts the debate over the claw extractor system verses the push feed design will often generate a heated conversation within minutes after the subject is mentioned. I have witnessed more than a few of these debates and I myself have even been ask to defend one or the other on a...

tecomate.com

Additionally, I haven't read much discussion on "actual" instances of problems with the modern Sako extractor system in the field. Given that people can be influenced by these discussions and removing all emotion from the debate, does anyone have recent first hand experience with a newer model Sako 85 having a feed/eject issue while hunting in Africa (specifically Africa to make sure that heat/humidity are properly accounted for...ie not hunting polar bears at the North Pole)?

 

[Ridgewalker]

Guys ... I appreciate all the great info/opinion on this board. It's truly helpful. I guess my concern is that there's an awful lot of "text book" analysis presented to determine the pros/cons of the various extractor types. I'm looking at purchasing a custom model 85 Sako and this subject is of great interest to me. But I ran across the following article and it reminded me, as an engineer, that theory and practice don't always produce the same result.

Claw Extractors 101

Among rifle nuts the debate over the claw extractor system verses the push feed design will often generate a heated conversation within minutes after the subject is mentioned. I have witnessed more than a few of these debates and I myself have even been ask to defend one or the other on a...

tecomate.com

Additionally, I haven't read much discussion on "actual" instances of problems with the modern Sako extractor system in the field. Given that people can be influenced by these discussions and removing all emotion from the debate, does anyone have recent first hand experience with a newer model Sako 85 having a feed/eject issue while hunting in Africa (specifically Africa to make sure that heat/humidity are properly accounted for...ie not hunting polar bears at the North Pole)?

Good article MarkTX. The article stated “With the machine technologies we have today the manufacture of these parts should be as simple as pouring milk you would think.” Having worked in mechanical design and manufacturing of many different products and parts materials for 40 years, I can assure you if something can go wrong, it will sooner or later. Tools dull; machine ways wear; heat treated material composition changes; calibration tools out of spec; functional gage worn; the moon in the wrong phase!
Manufacturing is essentially a living thing moving and changing day to day. That’s the nature of the beast.

 

[MarkTX]

Good article MarkTX. The article stated “With the machine technologies we have today the manufacture of these parts should be as simple as pouring milk you would think.” Having worked in mechanical design and manufacturing of many different products and parts materials for 40 years, I can assure you if something can go wrong, it will sooner or later. Tools dull; machine ways wear; heat treated material composition changes; calibration tools out of spec; functional gage worn; the moon in the wrong phase!
Manufacturing is essentially a living thing moving and changing day to day. That’s the nature of the beast.

Agree...I'm an engineer and have plenty of experience with Murphy. That's where practical experience and FIRST HAND, not second or third, information can be so valuable. I'm really interested in first hand accounts of a modern Sako extractor creating a problem in Africa. Did someone have a problem with feed or extraction and miss a follow up shot? I understand the engineering design rational and the theory ... but I'm missing the true field test part of the argument. I'm an open mind and don't have a horse in the race at this very moment. I'm looking to spend a healthy amount and have plenty of life lessons listening to engineering theory just to find that practical application didn't produce the desired result. BTW...my mom was born and raised in Kenya and has downed everything from elephants to lions. So I have her perspective on the environmental considerations.

 

[MLindsay]

I have heard about problems with Sako extractors but I guess I am lucky. I purchased a Sako M995 375 H&H in 1994. I have no idea how many rounds have been through it, been to Canada 6 times, Africa 12 times, New Zealand once and been on countless hunts in the U.S.. It has taken over 200 animals and knock on wood been flawless and shoots like a dream!!!

 

[Ridgewalker]

I don't know if you read Toby458’s report on his extraction issue in his Kalahari hunt? His issue was the 375 case hit the horizontal turret on his scope falling back into the action and blocking it. Exciting during a close encounter with a wounded buffalo! He corrected it by simply rotating the scope counterclockwise so the horizontal turret was changed to the vertical position and the vertical turret was on the left and was used for horizontal adjustment.
Refer to Toby above for part of the info.

 

[MarkTX]

I have heard about problems with Sako extractors but I guess I am lucky. I purchased a Sako M995 375 H&H in 1994. I have no idea how many rounds have been through it, been to Canada 6 times, Africa 12 times, New Zealand once and been on countless hunts in the U.S.. It has taken over 200 animals and knock on wood been flawless and shoots like a dream!!!

Thanks! This is really helpful.

 

[MarkTX]

I don't know if you read Toby458’s report on his extraction issue in his Kalahari hunt? His issue was the 375 case hit the horizontal turret on his scope falling back into the action and blocking it. Exciting during a close encounter with a wounded buffalo! He corrected it by simply rotating the scope counterclockwise so the horizontal turret was changed to the vertical position and the vertical turret was on the left and was used for horizontal adjustment.
Refer to Toby above for part of the info.

I have not, but definitely will!

I did talk to Sako, and to their credit, they told me I needed to consider the optic for the model 85 375 H&H to ensure their was not a shell strike on ejection. They have offered to assess any scope to give me a recommendation on feasibility. So there are scopes apparently that will mitigate any issue of ejected shell strike. So I don't believe that is a limiter in selecting the Model 85.