Bolt Guns are Better than Doubles?

[BeeMaa]

@Green Chile - I have to look for the YT video showing a 4-shot rapid fire contest between a double rifle and Blaser R8. If I recall correctly, they were of similar caliber but not the same. Points awarded based on shortest time and best accuracy…things that don’t normally go together with DG cartridges.

 

[deewayne2003]

There are many variables to the question of DR vs Bolt that are purely personal.....

Eyesight - Do you need a scope to offset bad eyesight?
Proficiency- Are you willing to put in the time and ammo investment to master a double?
Terrain - Are you hunting thick jess or open savannah?

I completed my first Africa hunt in July for tuskless in Zimbabwe and I can tell you that no amount of reading or youtube videos will ever accurately depict how dark the Jess can be and how well animals especially elephant blend in.

I brought my .470ne Sabatti - The pic in my avatar is a L&R group from when Ken Owen regulated it, he also did a trigger job, sights, recoil reducer, load development and milled the rib for a Trijicon RMR 1moa sight.

Before leaving in July I had fired over 250rnds of .470ne in preparation for this hunt and was confident both free hand and from sticks; as a result I could hit 8" plates at 150yds all day long while using sticks and able to hit two 4" targets free hand @50yds faster with my .470 than I was able to with my M70 .270win...... point being is that I believe that most hunting foul ups with double rifles come from the shooter not putting in the time and resources to fully master their doubles.

As for the hunt, when the time came we had our tuskless in front of us and the rest of the herd(over a dozen) all around us, as she cleared the tree and presented herself, the only viable shot was a quartering to shoulder shot and in the mental clarity of the situation my brain said.....

"This looks nothing like any of the shot placement pics"

Boom! first shot clipped a 4" diameter branch nearly cutting it in half and the bullet broke the front shoulder and into her heart, immediately I hit her with shot #2 in the shoulder and again hit her heart, reload and put the dot on her forehead and Boom - Brain shot and dropped her cold.

Distance 11 paces - The RMR was perfect, a scope would have been a liability.

 

[BeeMaa]

Not exactly a fair comparison, but worth a watch. Scoped Blaser BD97 9.3x74 O/U double rifle vs Blaser R93 416RM with RDO.

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

Not exactly a fair comparison, but worth a watch. Scoped Blaser BD97 9.3x74 O/U double rifle vs Blaser R93 416RM with RDO.

Interesting video but a couple questions.

1. The idea was each fired exactly 8 shots and accuracy requirement was to hit the black on the target? Not much time was spent reviewing the targets.

2. Do you know if the R93 shooter was "catching" his brass as it looked like the DR shooter or at least was turning the rifle up to allow gravity to do its job of emptying the chambers. That of course would be if the rifle is an extractor type not ejector. The former would of course be a bit slower.

 

[BeeMaa]

Interesting video but a couple questions.

1. The idea was each fired exactly 8 shots and accuracy requirement was to hit the black on the target? Not much time was spent reviewing the targets.

2. Do you know if the R93 shooter was "catching" his brass as it looked like the DR shooter or at least was turning the rifle up to allow gravity to do its job of emptying the chambers. That of course would be if the rifle is an extractor type not ejector. The former would of course be a bit slower.

There are a lot of things I believe should've been different. But if you want answers, I'd recommend sending a comment to the people who made the video. I have no idea and truly believe that the video leaves more questions than answers.

If I were doing this test, these would be the requirements...
SxS with ejectors vs Blaser R8
Same DG capable cartridge for both rifles
Same optics, preferably a RDO, 1x scope or irons
4" targets at 50 yards or meters
All other shots taken standing, off-hand
Add 3 seconds to the final time for each bullet outside the 4" circle.

I believe this would represent a good measure of what a client hunter should expect.

Given the above set of circumstances, I believe the R8 would be slower for two shots, but faster for four. If going for eight...I'm leaning towards the DR winning but it would be close with two proficient shooters who know their rifles. It sure would be fun.

Be nice to get these guys involved...

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

There are a lot of things I believe should've been different. But if you want answers, I'd recommend sending a comment to the people who made the video. I have no idea and truly believe that the video leaves more questions than answers.

If I were doing this test, these would be the requirements...
SxS with ejectors vs Blaser R8
Same DG capable cartridge for both rifles
Same optics, preferably a RDO, 1x scope or irons
4" targets at 50 yards or meters
All other shots taken standing, off-hand
Add 3 seconds to the final time for each bullet outside the 4" circle.

I believe this would represent a good measure of what a client hunter should expect.

Given the above set of circumstances, I believe the R8 would be slower for two shots, but faster for four. If going for eight...I'm leaning towards the DR winning but it would be close with two proficient shooters who know their rifles. It sure would be fun.

Be nice to get these guys involved...

Yah, can't be too critical of that first video. I'm guessing it was just one of those, "Hey let's try this for fun...." moments without an excessive amount of planning. Perhaps just an ad hoc deal put together in a couple minutes at the range.

 

[Rare Breed]

There are many variables to the question of DR vs Bolt that are purely personal.....

Eyesight - Do you need a scope to offset bad eyesight?
Proficiency- Are you willing to put in the time and ammo investment to master a double?
Terrain - Are you hunting thick jess or open savannah?

I completed my first Africa hunt in July for tuskless in Zimbabwe and I can tell you that no amount of reading or youtube videos will ever accurately depict how dark the Jess can be and how well animals especially elephant blend in.

I brought my .470ne Sabatti - The pic in my avatar is a L&R group from when Ken Owen regulated it, he also did a trigger job, sights, recoil reducer, load development and milled the rib for a Trijicon RMR 1moa sight.

Before leaving in July I had fired over 250rnds of .470ne in preparation for this hunt and was confident both free hand and from sticks; as a result I could hit 8" plates at 150yds all day long while using sticks and able to hit two 4" targets free hand @50yds faster with my .470 than I was able to with my M70 .270win...... point being is that I believe that most hunting foul ups with double rifles come from the shooter not putting in the time and resources to fully master their doubles.

As for the hunt, when the time came we had our tuskless in front of us and the rest of the herd(over a dozen) all around us, as she cleared the tree and presented herself, the only viable shot was a quartering to shoulder shot and in the mental clarity of the situation my brain said.....

"This looks nothing like any of the shot placement pics"

Boom! first shot clipped a 4" diameter branch nearly cutting it in half and the bullet broke the front shoulder and into her heart, immediately I hit her with shot #2 in the shoulder and again hit her heart, reload and put the dot on her forehead and Boom - Brain shot and dropped her cold.

Distance 11 paces - The RMR was perfect, a scope would have been a liability.

May I say extremely well done and well said!!! Congratulations on a great elephant!!!!!

 

[Rare Breed]

You bring up a question that many of us go through on every trip. For me it is always about the experience. Most times I chose a double, based on tradition and just how my brain is wired. Nothing screams Africa to me like stalking in close and harvesting my quarry with a double. That being said you have to have the discipline to pass on shots that with a scoped bolt or single shot would be a easy shot.

IMO for DG you need to have a rifle you have a 100% confidence in. It fits you perfect and you have shot it a lot. Then knowledge of proper shot placement!!!! a perfect shot with a 9.3 or 375 vs a gut shot with a 600 NE. The first will result in a short blood trail the second a very long couple of days of follow up. So pick the rifle you have confidence in, define the hunt experience you want to have. make a decision and don't look back. It is your safari and you are the only one that can make the ultimate decision on which platform you will take.

A man after my own heart!!!!!

 

[Altitude sickness]

BeeMaa, how does the Lee speed bolt cycling compare to the R-8 I’ve only cycled both. Never shot either repeatedly and quickly. I know the R-8 has other popular features. But does the Lee speed stack up on cycling speed ?