Bolt Guns are Better than Doubles?

[intj]

I recently finished the hunt of a lifetime where I shot a cape buffalo and a Roland Ward eland, plus some small stuff. Of course, I immediately gained more lifetimes.....

Earlier this year I bought a 470 NE, a Ken Owens regulated Sabatti. This is my second re-regulated Sabatti. The first was a 450 NE regulated by Aaron Little. I spent a lot of time with the 450, though I never hunted with it. Properly regulated Sabattis shoot very well and work very well as many here are well aware.

The PH gave me a choice of bringing my M-70 in 416 Rem or my 470 DR. I decided on the 416. Given where we were hunting, given that Buffalo and plains game were being hunted, and given that the hunt wasn't all about me; the scoped 416 was superior. Also, I was a donating a rifle to the PH and I only had room for one rifle for me, so the 416 was the obvious choice.

I spent a lot of time prepping for the hunt, finding a load, and practicing with the rifle. The 416 hammered every animal I shot from 50 to 150 yards and functioned flawlessly. At the range, I was very consistent hitting an 8" gong at 300 yds.

My plan had always been to use the bolt gun for this first trip and the DR after. However, after this one experience, I am leaning toward using a bolt gun for the elephant I am planning in 2 years.

The pros and cons of bolt vs double has been thoroughly discussed here and elsewhere. I had always assumed that a DR was a better choice than a bolt gun for elephant. Now I am really wondering.

My PH much prefers a bolt gun. I have come across experienced African hunters who prefer bolt guns to doubles for elephant. So I am questioning my initial assumptions.

I have no doubt that I can again gain proficiency with the DR just like I did with the bolt gun. A 416 is very comfortable for me to shoot, and a 458 Lott bolt gun is more comfortable for me to shoot that a 470 NE DR even though calculated recoil is the same.

The bolt gun has a much better trigger, the shape of the bolt rifle stock feels better to me that the dropped comb of a double, I have a better target view at any range with a 1-6x scope, and I can can shoot a bolt gun about as fast I can a DR.

I have learned that on elephant, body shots can be a thing. While I will probably get another buffalo hunt in a few years, I think this will be my only elephant. I think my best chance of having the most opportunity for whatever shot is presented on an elephant is by using a bolt gun in 458 Lott or the 458-375 RUM I am thinking of building.

Anyone else come to a similar conclusion?

 

[Tanks]

No.

 

[Rare Breed]

The answer is what experience do you want to have? Both your choices will easily take your elephant so what are you looking for? To me no contest my DR not my bolt actions all due to the old Africa classical experience hunting with a DR. The gun is a big part of my experience. A bolt action for elephant do two things for you: 1. Help you see much better when the animal is in deep shade…yes even an elephant can be hard to pick out in heavy jess and shade. 2. You can take longer shots. For me though there is nothing like stalking into 20 yards on a buff or elephant with my DR. Just my POV

 

[375Fox]

Where will you be hunting and what is expected shot and range? For my elephant hunt I was told to expect a frontal brain shot at 20 yards or under and that’s what I was presented. Use the rifle you are most comfortable with and that sounds like a bolt action. If you do end up shooting for heart lungs you’ll appreciate the extra bullets as well. A double rifle doesn’t add any particular value to my experience over a bolt action.

 

[Andrew62]

A part of the equation is vision/optics. For me, having cataracts, I cannot use a red dot, and I cannot see well enough to use open sites, so I continue to hunt with my bolt rifle and either a 1x6 or 2x10 Leupold scope, plus I have 2 extra shells in my gun. Having said all of that, I truly wish I had a good quality 450/400 double rifle, it just screams 'cool factor'.

 

[Scanos]

No bolt action can replace the quick second shot of a double. It is probably a rare occasion for a client hunter to need that quick second shot. But I can attest to the fact it can happen. The picture below was taken immediately after I was mauled by a buffalo. My rifle is under the buffalo with the bolt back. He hit me as as I was frantically trying to cycle the action for a second shot.

 

[Mark R]

I have used my 450 dr here in Oz on buff etc but I took my M70 416RM bolt rifle on my ele hunt. I was happy with that decision.

 

[Tokoloshe Safaris]

Laying here and thinking about your question and the other posts, I don’t think I ever had one of them that said “next time I am bringing my bolt rifle” at least not for elephant. 10 to 20 meters is the norm.

I will answer question in a different way. Due to health circumstances I have had to sell some of my finest rifles. Now I will ask which will be the last rifle left standing. 100 year old mint .470 George Gibbs or mint .404 Martini Express Heym or .375HH-300Win. M-70 Cutom shop takedown with ERA mounts Swarovski & Kahles, mounts?

Lon

 

[intj]

Interesting replies. I knew the DR guys would be very quick to defend their choice--they always do.

In terms of a classic African hunting experience, bolt rifles have been used for DG for over 100 years.

I too am a gun guy, and I guess for me, carrying a Winchester M-70 in Africa is the ultimate rifle--especially if I personally have chambered the barrel and beaded the stock.

If I had the thin the herd, I would part with the DR without any remorse. I would not let the M-70 in 416 go.

Of course, what would I think if I had used the 470 on my first buffalo hunt instead of my 416?

 

[Pondoro]

No..

 

[VertigoBE]

Just to counterbalance the pro double rifle posts:

But for my next safari I'm going with 2 doubles. A .375H&H double and a 500NE double rifle.

More important in my view than bolt action vs double rifle, is to have good optics on them. That will extend the range of your double rifle if necessary. Having a 3rd and 4th and even 5th shot with the bolt action, compared to a double rifle's two, does not really carry much weight. You are not culling elephant or buffalo. And it's a guarantee that from the 2nd shot on, you'll be hard pressed anyway in getting more lead in the air on a fleeing target.

In the end, both function. I will try to do more double work from now on.

 

[grand veneur]

I have everything I need in my gun-safe, but in all cases I prefer a bolt action rifle with a scope for hunting buffaloes and elephants, a rifle that allows me to shoot accurate even in poor visibility conditions or at a greater distance if necessary. Something like this is more difficult with a double rifle and certainly not possible without a scope. Unfortunately, you can never choose beforehand the circumstances under which you have to shot a buffalo or an elephant. If you want to hunt with a double rifle, maybe you have to adapt your hunting to your rifle.

 

[Hunter-Habib]

This is very much a matter of individual taste. Much also depends upon the kind of terrain where one is hunting.

In dense vegetation with low visibility, double rifles all the way. 8 out of 10 hunters won’t be able to cycle the bolt quickly enough for a second shot, if a Royal Bengal tiger charges at you in these mangrove forests. Or any of the African Big 5 in the dense Tanzanian bush.

In open terrain, bolt action rifles have the advantage of range (generally speaking). 8 out 10 hunters wouldn’t be able to get within conventional double rifle range of this Asiatic water buffalo in South Bengal. Same applies for lion hunting in the Kalahari (amongst other African places).

Much also depends upon how you are hunting your quarry.

Leopard hunting over bait mandates a bolt action rifle with a low power telescopic sight (not too high magnification).

Leopard hunting over hounds mandates a swift handling double rifle with a non-automatic safety, wide V backsights & an uncovered ivory bead foresight (I unfortunately learnt this the hard way in Botswana when tackling a leopard over hounds with a bolt action .375 Holland & Holland Magnum Remington Model 700).

 

[grand veneur]

Certainly a lot depends on the terrain, but even in dense vegetation a scope can be an advantage in order to acquire the target much better for a good shot placement. It is certain that a double rifle allows a quick second shot, but then it is over because reloading is no faster than that of a bolt action rifle.

Tiger hunting is a special case. I know the area where they hang out, so I would also think about what I would use for this hunt.

 

[mark-hunter]

I think I will stick to theory of "beware of a man with one gun... he probably knows how to use it", and I will stick to bolt action.
This is due to financial constraints, and priorities. One proper double costs like one safari.
Buy a gun, loose one safari? Not for me, my priority is boots on the ground.

Yes, a double - in theory - it can be bought now and sold later, but where I live, market for DG doubles is slim to none.
I will not be able to sell, or will not be able to sell for appropriate price.

Brits called mauser 98, "cheap continental magazine rifle". This remains till today.
Besides the average market cost, bolt gun has proven very functional in hands of farmers, and non-rich hunters.

So, it has nothing to do which one is better.
It is priority and utility choice of poor-man African hunter.

 

[Altitude sickness]

Buffalo can be hard to pinpoint an aiming spot on when the beast is in the shade. So optics are optimal. Or pass a lot of potential shots.

For me, and I think the majority of us, the thrill of elephant hunting is experiencing that heart raising proximity of less than 30 yards. Less than 20 even better. So irons or red dot are great.
Many of us have aged eyes also.

I learned that if you poke the eye of too many cows. And run into the wrong group of cows. Eventually you will need several rifles brought into action and potentially many rounds to shoot more than one elephant.

For my limited experience and knowledge. I went through 3 quality DR’s that shot as well as a DR is expected to shoot. I just could never accept that for that amount of money it still did not shoot as accurate as a $400 Walmart rifle.

So I sold the DR’s and carried two different magazine rifles and two calibers for my third Buffalo hunt and my first elephant hunt.

However, I am still in search of that one DR though. As they do have that “certain something”

 

[grand veneur]

If you look at it from purely financial reasons, a bolt action rifle offers advantages. A not expensive bolt action rifle do the job in all cases and the chances of being successful are higher than those with a double rifle. If you want a good old double rifle which has a certain flair and which also shoots well, you maybe have because of the price to renounce of a buffalo hunt.

 

[BeeMaa]

It depends on the individual and how they want to hunt.

There are a lot of factors on DR vs bolt. The big ones are the higher price of a DR vs a bolt and familiarity. Even if one can afford a double rifle, they are probably much more familiar with a bolt action. There is a lot to be said for being well versed in the operation of your firearm.

Another big factor is how many hunts you will do for elephant or DG in general? Is this to be a stopping rifle caliber or to be used for hunting game that's closer to medium-sized?

I was having a phone conversation with another member about this very subject just yesterday. For me, I lack the patience to own a DR. Regulating, testing loads, testing bullets, reloading...it can be a lot for someone just getting into it.

I'm not a PH or guide and my real NEED for a double rifle is zero. That said, if one were to fall in my lap, I'm sure I'd fall in love with it instantly. There is a "cool factor" that needs to be taken into account.

 

[Altitude sickness]

There is definitely something to holding and shouldering a quality DR. It just feels better than even the most svelte magazine rifle.

But for me accuracy is king.

 

[Kevin Peacocke]

No bolt action can replace the quick second shot of a double. It is probably a rare occasion for a client hunter to need that quick second shot. But I can attest to the fact it can happen. The picture below was taken immediately after I was mauled by a buffalo. My rifle is under the buffalo with the bolt back. He hit me as as I was frantically trying to cycle the action for a second shot.

View attachment 633953

That says it all. I am glad you made it.