Boer or Brit?

[Wheels]

Either round will work. If you have a lower magnification scope you might consider it. X5 is a high minimum for the vast majority of Africa. Especially if you are trying to find an animal in the bush your PH is pointing at and you don't have a wide field of view. For me, X2-X3 is the preferable setting to carry my rifle. If I have time and a longer shot I might dial it up but rarely. Off hand I can remember one animal I have shot in Africa over X6.

 

[Brian Rothhammer]

A Stutzen is a Mannlicher-Schoenauer and nothing else.

A stutzen is a full stocked carbine.

Not all Mannlicher Schoenauers were stutzen, not all stutzen are Mannlicher Schoenauers.

Mauser Stutzen, 1939

Mannlicher Schoenauer, 1939

Several nations had adopted military stutzen in the late 19th Century, some of which were Steyr built and of Mannlicher design. The stutzen form was well suited to and had become popular as a sporting arm for stalking hunts on the European Continent prior to introduction of der Mannlicher Schoenauer.

 

[Pondoro]

This thread is really about nostalgia... A more modern approach is a .308Win. with Norma 180 grain Nosler Partition.. Not to say the 2 other dont work..

 

[grand veneur]

A stutzen is a full stocked carbine.

Not all Mannlicher Schoenauers were stutzen, not all stutzen are Mannlicher Schoenauers.

View attachment 579094
Mauser Stutzen, 1939

View attachment 579096
Mannlicher Schoenauer, 1939

View attachment 579098
Several nations had adopted military stutzen in the late 19th Century, some of which were Steyr built and of Mannlicher design. The stutzen form was well suited to and had become popular as a sporting arm for stalking hunts on the European Continent prior to introduction of der Mannlicher Schoenauer.

Sure I know what a Stutzen is, after all, German was my first language and the first rifle I saw in my life was the Stutzen of my father.

One should be understood that the Mannlicher-Schoenauer is the symbol of a Stutzten, but there were many other full stocked rifles that were called like that, but not all of them. The term Karabiner was more commonly used by the army. The word Stutzen is used by hunters for such rifles.

 

[Brian Rothhammer]

Sure I know what a Stutzen is, after all, German was my first language and the first rifle I saw in my life was the Stutzen of my father.

One should be understood that the Mannlicher-Schoenauer is the symbol of a Stutzten, but there were many other full stocked rifles that were called like that, but not all of them. The term Karabiner was more commonly used by the army. The word Stutzen is used by hunters for such rifles.

True, all.

My reply was more for the information of any and all who may read these forums in future, I meant no offense or slight.

To state that The Mannlicher Schoenauer stutzen, particularly of the pre WW2 period, were the finest 'factory built' full stocked carbines would certainly get full agreement from me.

That they have become 'the symbol of' a stutzen is to me somewhat problematic as the all too common practice of referring to any rifle or carbine with wood to the muzzle as 'Mannlicher Stocked', or simply as 'a Mannlicher' is just wrong. 'Mannlicher style' is slightly less inaccurate, but 'stutzen' or 'full stock' is inclusive of all long wooded arms without impugning the reputation of der Mannlicher Schoenauer.

Ruger does have the grace to refer to theirs as 'International' though retailers do not always list them as such.

 

[skydiver386]

Both calibers are very capable, but the 7x57 just makes my heart beat a little faster.

 

[Macduff]

Before I make my comment, I want to preface it by saying that either cartridge will work perfectly well.

That said, I’ll be the odd one out here and say that I’m not a fan of the .303. I think of .303 and I automatically think of military ball rounds.

Now the 7x57…I think of Africa and Karamojo Bell.

I know which I would be taking. It doesn’t hurt that I love a Mannlicher stock. That said, there really isn’t a wrong answer. This question is one of feeling, not cartridge performance.

 

[Macduff]

True, all.

My reply was more for the information of any and all who may read these forums in future, I meant no offense or slight.

To state that The Mannlicher Schoenauer stutzen, particularly of the pre WW2 period, were the finest 'factory built' full stocked carbines would certainly get full agreement from me.

That they have become 'the symbol of' a stutzen is to me somewhat problematic as the all too common practice of referring to any rifle or carbine with wood to the muzzle as 'Mannlicher Stocked', or simply as 'a Mannlicher' is just wrong. 'Mannlicher style' is slightly less inaccurate, but 'stutzen' or 'full stock' is inclusive of all long wooded arms without impugning the reputation of der Mannlicher Schoenauer.

Ruger does have the grace to refer to theirs as 'International' though retailers do not always list them as such.

You typed this out while I was writing my reply (including using the term Mannlicher stock incorrectly) but I wish I had read it first.

I learned something this morning. Thanks for sharing!

 

[Shako Badhan]

Can’t go wrong with either, but I would go with the Brit. From what I have been told the 303 got a bad reputation in Africa for wounding game. This was because most people were using military surplus ammunition that was designed to tumble.

With proper bullets the 303 has great sectional density and will more than get the job done.

 

[HWL]

Either round will work. If you have a lower magnification scope you might consider it. X5 is a high minimum for the vast majority of Africa. Especially if you are trying to find an animal in the bush your PH is pointing at and you don't have a wide field of view. For me, X2-X3 is the preferable setting to carry my rifle. If I have time and a longer shot I might dial it up but rarely. Off hand I can remember one animal I have shot in Africa over X6.

On principle, you are right.
But a scope always is a compromise.
In this very special case, I do not have to take every chance, because I hunt at a friends farm, and I have all the time.
On the other side, my experience is, more often you have the chance for a well-thought-out, long shot.
Even with this cartridges, and some training sessions at the range, one can hit at 250, or even 300 yard..... which is pretty far for me.
A high magnification is helpfull for this....

HWL

 

[IvW]

308Win

No class and shoots light for caliber bullets....

 

[grand veneur]

No class and shoots light for caliber bullets....

I don't understand what you mean.

 

[IvW]

This thread is really about nostalgia... A more modern approach is a .308Win. with Norma 180 grain Nosler Partition.. Not to say the 2 other dont work..

 

[Wheels]

On principle, you are right.
But a scope always is a compromise.
In this very special case, I do not have to take every chance, because I hunt at a friends farm, and I have all the time.
On the other side, my experience is, more often you have the chance for a well-thought-out, long shot.
Even with this cartridges, and some training sessions at the range, one can hit at 250, or even 300 yard..... which is pretty far for me.
A high magnification is helpfull for this....

HWL

Pretty sure I have taken less than five shots in the 250-300 range in Africa. I have taken scores of shots under 50. These are shots normally in brush where the animals give you moments to get on them before they are gone. Field of view and low magnification becomes much more important in these situations than high magnification.

My thoughts were only a suggestion. The decision is obviously yours.

All the best on your hunt!

 

[Rocked and Loaded]

I’d loose all my commonwealth street cred if I didn’t vote .303 British.

Just refer to it as .275 rigby and call it a day.

 

[Brian Rothhammer]

You typed this out while I was writing my reply (including using the term Mannlicher stock incorrectly) but I wish I had read it first.

I learned something this morning. Thanks for sharing!

Glad to assist.

Ritter Ferdinand von Mannlicher was one of the pre eminemt firearms designers of all time.

It is ironic and unfortunate that his name is remembered by many as identifier of a full stock, for which he was not the innovator, rather than for his own achievements such as the 'en bloc clip' which was originally patented and referred to as the Mannlicher Packet Loading System.

Mannlicher had designed removable box magazines before reliable means to manufacture them existed. His 'straight pull' military rifles and carbines had been adopted by several nations prior to design of der Mannlicher Schoenauer.

Not a piece of wood.

 

[steve white]

You do realize that you will need to match clothing to your choice--tweed for the Brit option, and Loden for Germanic, lol. Maybe go with which line of clothing you already have or like the best?

 

[Brian Rothhammer]

You do realize that you will need to match clothing to your choice--tweed for the Brit option, and Loden for Germanic, lol. Maybe go with which line of clothing you already have or like the best?

Pith helmets for all!

 

[Grumpy gumpy]

Just refer to it as .275 rigby and call it a day.

I was just scrolling down to the bottom of the thread to post this and you beet me to it
remember, you shoot a better class of animal with the 275 Rigby........


gumpy

 

[Grumpy gumpy]

I was just scrolling down to the bottom of the thread to post this and you beet me to it
remember, you shoot a better class of animal with the 275 Rigby........


gumpy

Just noticed the stupid spell check changed beat to beet....
gumpy