Blaser R8 Jaeger Safari 458 Win Mag. Sumo Wrestler In A Dress

[geoff rath]

I've been reading quite a bit of the 458WM Vs 458Lott discussion of late, and I've been pointed towards the 458 (African) Express, in either 2,5' case or 2.65" length.
Basically a South Afrikan rework/review of the 458 Howell, based on the 404 Lott case.
my stockmaker (ex-Rhodesian/south African) is in regular contact with the designer a doctor, I believe. He/they quote superior velocities than either of the two U S cartridges. A simple rechamber would be all that's needed ...
Anyone else know of these?

 

[Inline6]

Looks interesting, makes a Lott look like a 458WinMag. I'm not sure what you mean on the length? The Express looks to be a 3" case. If you need it or want it, go for it. I'm assuming ammo will be harder and more expensive to find for it. I'm sure it can drive a bullet fast than a Watt if you wanted to take that kind of punishment. It appears to have been made to drive 500gr bullets with a powder available in Africa to 2150fps? Not sure how bad/good the powder selection is over there. Again have to assume not as good as the US if there is truly a need for this cartridge.

 

[geoff rath]

Looks interesting, makes a Lott look like a 458WinMag. I'm not sure what you mean on the length? The Express looks to be a 3" case. If you need it or want it, go for it. I'm assuming ammo will be harder and more expensive to find for it. I'm sure it can drive a bullet fast than a Watt if you wanted to take that kind of punishment. It appears to have been made to drive 500gr bullets with a powder available in Africa to 2150fps? Not sure how bad/good the powder selection is over there. Again have to assume not as good as the US if there is truly a need for this cartridge.

g'smith of my acquaintance has built at least one, has dies, load data; Bertram for brass? Builds on M98, no loss of mag capacity. Using Aussie-made A29 monolithics, very effective on water buff

 

[shark_za]

A lot of the guys have 458 3" chambered rifles, a dude I drink beer with is some sort of examiner for NW province DG guide shooting qaulification or competition and he says thats the best solution for cash strapped guides.
Get a CZ .458 and bore out the chamber a little more than a Lott for lower pressures and more powder. I think this may be less prevalent these days since Somchem power production is really spotty and people are loading with Norma and USA/AUS made powders anyway.
The Lott and the Winmag can get good velocities if loaded just right.
The 458 Express just makes it so easy, the thinking was never to increase the performance only to make it simpler to load for.

 

[BeeMaa]

A lot of the guys have 458 3" chambered rifles, a dude I drink beer with is some sort of examiner for NW province DG guide shooting qaulification or competition and he says thats the best solution for cash strapped guides.
Get a CZ .458 and bore out the chamber a little more than a Lott for lower pressures and more powder. I think this may be less prevalent these days since Somchem power production is really spotty and people are loading with Norma and USA/AUS made powders anyway.
The Lott and the Winmag can get good velocities if loaded just right.
The 458 Express just makes it so easy, the thinking was never to increase the performance only to make it simpler to load for.

Just so I understand...

You are saying is that the inconsistencies in the production quality of reloading powder available in South Africa made the 458EXPRESS necessary to maintain proper velocity by increasing case capacity over the 458WM and 458LOTT. So for each batch of reloading powder you buy it requires load development.

So why not go with the 460WBY and increase the case capacity from 111 grains (458EXPRESS) to 141 grains? Wouldn't it be easier to find brass? Or does the cartridge OAL become a problem for the action?

 

[Forrest Halley]

So why not go with the 460WBY and increase the case capacity from 111 grains (458EXPRESS) to 141 grains? Wouldn't it be easier to find brass? Or does the cartridge OAL become a problem for the action?

Seems like that is more than just a simple rechamber job and one loses the then triple stream supply of brass/ammo.

Another thought is that with a case trimmer, one could exist for a long while in the field starting with a 3" case. Just trim to suit with a Lee trimmer and load with a Lyman 310.

 

[TOBY458]

Well, since we're on the R8 here. Not sure the magazine would hold the extra length of the 458 Express. The 2.85" case of the Lott pretty much maxes it out. And I've never had any problem at all getting the needed velocity from the Win Mag or Lott with American powders. A 450 gr CEB Monolithic Solid at 2250-2350 fps has been shown to give lengthwise penetration on bull elephant. What more do you need? In my opinion, if you want more power than that, go up to a 500 Jeffery.

 

[Forrest Halley]

Well, since we're on the R8 here. Not sure the magazine would hold the extra length of the 458 Express. The 2.85" case of the Lott pretty much maxes it out. And I've never had any problem at all getting the needed velocity from the Win Mag or Lott with American powders. A 450 gr CEB Monolithic Solid at 2250-2350 fps has been shown to give lengthwise penetration on bull elephant. What more do you need? In my opinion, if you want more power than that, go up to a 500 Jeffery.

What will a 500 gr CEB MS do at 2350 then??

 

[BeeMaa]

What will a 500 gr CEB MS do at 2350 then??

Produce 6131 lb-ft of energy at the muzzle...so pretty much anything is on the menu as long as you can control the recoil and shoot accurately.

 

[Inline6]

Just so I understand...

You are saying is that the inconsistencies in the production quality of reloading powder available in South Africa made the 458EXPRESS necessary to maintain proper velocity by increasing case capacity over the 458WM and 458LOTT. So for each batch of reloading powder you buy it requires load development.

So why not go with the 460WBY and increase the case capacity from 111 grains (458EXPRESS) to 141 grains? Wouldn't it be easier to find brass? Or does the cartridge OAL become a problem for the action?

Well, with the Express I'm sure you have more options, 458WinMag, 458Lott, 450Watt, and 458EXPRESS out of the same chamber. Ammo being a little hard to come by over there not sure this is good or bad?

Agree with @TOBY458 don't think it would work (take advantage of the extre capacity) in an R8 the longest case that I know fits is 2.85" (375H&H) the 458 bullets are just longer. The case itself would be okay by the time you seated the bullet to the required length you would need it to feed you will eat up your case capacity.

 

[IvW]

Optical elusion....

 

[IvW]

Optical elusion....

 

[geoff rath]

Just so I understand...

You are saying is that the inconsistencies in the production quality of reloading powder available in South Africa made the 458EXPRESS necessary to maintain proper velocity by increasing case capacity over the 458WM and 458LOTT. So for each batch of reloading powder you buy it requires load development.

So why not go with the 460WBY and increase the case capacity from 111 grains (458EXPRESS) to 141 grains? Wouldn't it be easier to find brass? Or does the cartridge OAL become a problem for the action?

 

[geoff rath]

Or 450 Rigby? The reason behind the Express is to put more "push" into a standard length action, I believe, without having to chase up a Magnum length one ,,,

 

[TOBY458]

Or 450 Rigby? The reason behind the Express is to put more "push" into a standard length action, I believe, without having to chase up a Magnum length one ,,,

Won't work in the R8. They don't make a 416 Rigby, so I assume that large case doesn't work in the R8 magazine system.

 

[TOBY458]

What will a 500 gr CEB MS do at 2350 then??

It will punch the same exact .458 diameter hole through the same Elephant. Nothing gained except recoil.

 

[Inline6]

Won't work in the R8. They don't make a 416 Rigby, so I assume that large case doesn't work in the R8 magazine system.

They make it for a 338LM, parent case is 416 Rigby.

 

[TTundra]

They make it for a 338LM, parent case is 416 Rigby.

3.681 for the Lapua and 3.75 for the 416 Rigby on OAL. Makes you wonder what the longest OAL the R8 could take. Anyone ask Blaser this yet?

Edit- just saw the 338 Lapua R8 has a different magazine/trigger assembly altogether.

 

[Inline6]

3.681 for the Lapua and 3.75 for the 416 Rigby on OAL. Makes you wonder what the longest OAL the R8 could take. Anyone ask Blaser this yet?

Edit- just saw the 338 Lapua R8 has a different magazine/trigger assembly altogether.

I'm betting 338LM, that is the reason for the difference in trigger group

 

[C.W. Richter]

It's been my experience in the 458 WM that Barnes bullets are the absolute worst choice as they are the longest. You can get the highest velocities out of any available woodleighs the softs and solids as they are the absolute shortest 500 grain bullets out there. Also in 458 you essentially get 100 ft per second per additional 1/10th of an inch of cartridge which of course can be created by the lesser seating depth. Why the typical standard 458 shoots 2050 ft per second and the Lott Wyatt and Ackley 2350. Even if you squeezed 2250 out with the higher SD 500 grainers that should be fine.